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      08-28-2009, 01:13 PM   #45
Year's_End
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oh wow. that new pic is crazy.
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      08-28-2009, 02:10 PM   #46
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oh wow, that new pic looks pretty sick
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      08-28-2009, 02:22 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
You can completely disavow the last statements regarding the car is an Audi R8/SLS Rival because it is not. And neither is it a supercar.

To understand the concept you have to look at how can a sports car be acceptable in the future , not the present , no V8 , no V10 a Concept all about sustainability, and a precursor to how BMW will incorporate areas seen on the "Vision Efficient Dynamics" on future BMW's in ways of drivetrain , power and aerodynamics.

But the Concept is purely to show how BMW can produce a sustainable sports car for the future. It's a leap over todays sports cars and it's how BMW will interpret a Sports car for the future. To which the game will be played differently to which it is now.
Thanks for providing the right info
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      08-28-2009, 02:42 PM   #48
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dude, you're making me hungry- is that pic from Applebee's?
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      08-28-2009, 03:06 PM   #49
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Thumbs up

BMW needs an R8 competitor first.
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      08-28-2009, 03:49 PM   #50
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When the earth does n t heat up anymore we can go full throttle again and buy high rev M engines again.

The whole co2 debate is blown up way to much.


What about ferrari. Who is gonna buy a ferrari with a diesel hybrid engine. No one. People who buy those cars want emotion.

Will we see future were brands like ferrari do not exist anymore.

Why do i have to work then if i can t spend my money on nice cars anymore which gives me driving pleasure/emotion.

What if everybody drives electric cars. What does electric power cost then. What does it gonna do with the electric we pay for our houses.
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      08-28-2009, 06:12 PM   #51
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      08-28-2009, 06:31 PM   #52
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hybrid diesel...fuck yea BMW!
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      08-28-2009, 06:44 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
What if everybody drives electric cars. What does electric power cost then. What does it gonna do with the electric we pay for our houses.
Power plants are extremely efficient compared to internal combustion engines. I'm getting these numbers from fuzzy memory, but I believe ICE's are about 15% efficient and power plants are around 80%-90%, depending on the fuel. Therefor, electric cars will have MPG equivalents in the hundreds of miles. Plus, the work on the next generation smart-grid has some spectacular technology there, which will make electricity much cheaper for everyone.
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      08-29-2009, 02:32 AM   #54
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Quote:
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hybrid diesel...fuck yea BMW!


Hybrid diesel =/= creator of emotions...
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      08-29-2009, 03:56 AM   #55
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OK next question then.

How are i be able to drive a n 18 wheeler night and day without a recharge then. Do i need an extra truck with accu s then?

I want to drive from las vegas to LA. No charge points. How much Accu s do i need in a road car?

I don t see the point of electric cars outside the purpose of a city car.
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      08-29-2009, 10:56 AM   #56
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Here's some new info on specs:

-- Car will feature futuristic design in a 2+2 seating arrangement
-- diesel electric hybrid engine with high performance hybrid drivetrain
-- powered by 3-cylinder diesel engine with two electric motors
-- power output ~350hp (which together with its lightweight contruction will be as fast as BMW's current M3 as as fuel efficient as a Prius)
-- can run on either diesel engine or electric motors alone, or a combination
-- battery can be partially charged through regenerative braking or fully charged via plugin to standard outlet.
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      08-29-2009, 11:14 AM   #57
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I highly doubt this will ever be released, but they might be testing their hybrid diesels. If in fact that works, they will release hybrid diesel 3 series etc.
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      08-29-2009, 11:52 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWI6 View Post
Sports Cars = Performance over efficiency.
Under the current geo-political and future environmental trend automative manufacturers are incentivized to lower carbon emission. To manufacturers being green is going to make or break the company, however for the most popular luxury car company making high end sports car low carbon emission should go without saying. That's is the bare minimum. Like combustion engine needs fuel to run, we need air to breath and life needs water.

Performance has to be the top priority and efficiency and low emissions are must haves. Enthusiasts follow performance and the population follows the enthusiasts. In recent years, we the enthusiasts have seen BMW diluting its commitment to performance by expanding the product line to appeal to the general public. The new car will no doubt be the halo car for the brand. Question remains to be answered is: Is BMW using this car to strengthen its sporting heritage or is it using it like the prius for Toyota to play the green position. My guess is BMW is using it for both.
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      08-29-2009, 11:57 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Here's some new info on specs:

-- Car will feature futuristic design in a 2+2 seating arrangement
-- diesel electric hybrid engine with high performance hybrid drivetrain
-- powered by 3-cylinder diesel engine with two electric motors
-- power output ~350hp (which together with its lightweight contruction will be as fast as BMW's current M3 as as fuel efficient as a Prius)
-- can run on either diesel engine or electric motors alone, or a combination
-- battery can be partially charged through regenerative braking or fully charged via plugin to standard outlet.
This doesn't really sound exciting...
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      08-29-2009, 12:03 PM   #60
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Sounds interesting.... but on the other hand I think thats a really tough sell. Who wants a diesel sports car? Hell, even Audi decided not to use a diesel in the R8 despite their involvement in LMP2 with their diesels.
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      08-29-2009, 12:05 PM   #61
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      08-29-2009, 12:29 PM   #62
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How can a 3 cylinder diesel electric POS even be compared to the monstrous r8, off course it is not a competitor, this is a prius competitor.

I hate how some of you guys are like YEAH BMW, without even having a clue of what this means, a 3 cylinder engine? Do you know how unbalanced a 3 cylinder engine is? Just think about how much vibrations this engine will produce and how a huge balance shaft is going to be needed to correct this. Some of you guys are pretty smart, but those are the same people who don't get cheered up by this sort of thing.
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      08-29-2009, 12:33 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWI6 View Post
How can a 3 cylinder diesel electric POS even be compared to the monstrous r8, off course it is not a competitor, this is a prius competitor.

I hate how some of you guys are like YEAH BMW, without even having a clue of what this means, a 3 cylinder engine? Do you know how unbalanced a 3 cylinder engine is? Just think about how much vibrations this engine will produce and how a huge balance shaft is going to be needed to correct this. Some of you guys are pretty smart, but those are the same people who don't get cheered up by this sort of thing.
As i'm reading it, its a 3 cylinder engine combined with TWO ELECTRIC ENGINES. Thats a whole lot of power combined. Take a look over the ActiveHybrid X6 and 7 Series which run on a similar setup, they are putting out some very large horsepower figures when the electric motors are running in combination with the gasoline engine. In this case, BMW have cut the cylinders down to 3, but the car itself is alot smaller and a whole lot lighter then an X6 or a 7 Series. Seems like a nice direction for BMW IMO, I'd rather BMW go more towards a Lotus philosophy of car building (light vehicles that don't necesitate big engines) rather then trying to build a big engine to match a heavy car.

BIG horsepower from big engines and high revs have been done by BMW already, we have the current M3 and M5 that give us all that and more. Personally, I'm curious to see where BMW can take this lightweight path and see what they can engineer. Its something new, so why not? Afterall, if the cars don't work out then we will all just keep the current cars in our garages for that much longer.. no harm no foul.

As for the imbalance of a 3 cylinder engine, none of us can even postulate on that since none of us have driven a BMW 3 cylinder engine! But speaking theoretically, if its an inline 3 cylinder, why should it be anything different from an inline 6? The inline configuration is inherently inferior to the V configuration, but BMW has figured out how to make one of the best engines the world has ever seen out of the inline 6 configuration. I wouldnt begin to question their engine building abilities, they consistently make the best engines in the world... by far (inline 6, TT I6, TT V8, TT V12, NA V10, the list goes on). A similar debate was floating around here before BMW unveiled the TT I-6 engine, with people saying that was the end of BMW... but as they proved, they were able to incorporate the turbo architecture into their inline 6 without diluting the characterstics of that engine we all love. I have no doubt they wouldn't release a 3cylinder engine unless it met all the standards associated with BMW.
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      08-29-2009, 12:36 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkE90M3 View Post
As i'm reading it, its a 3 cylinder engine combined with TWO ELECTRIC ENGINES. Thats a whole lot of power combined. Take a look over the ActiveHybrid X6 and 7 Series which run on a similar setup, they are putting out some very large horsepower figures when the electric motors are running in combination with the gasoline engine. In this case, BMW have cut the cylinders down to 3, but the car itself is alot smaller and a whole lot lighter then an X6 or a 7 Series. Seems like a nice direction for BMW IMO, I'd rather BMW go more towards a Lotus philosophy of car building (light vehicles that don't necesitate big engines) rather then trying to build a big engine to match a heavy car.
I completely agree with you, however they should still keep in mind the philosophy that has made them successful for so many years. Why cant they put in a small inline 4 like they did in their new motorcycle? A 3 cylinder engine is not a platform that can provide the smoothness that BMW's are known for.
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      08-29-2009, 12:49 PM   #65
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i dont see the drivetrain making it into production anytime soon. but i do see the overall silouette of the car getting produced pretty soon. it looks close to the M1, especailly in the front. at least we're not getting another pointless car from BMW.
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      08-29-2009, 02:08 PM   #66
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Actually the crank throws in the in-line 3 are at 120 degrees like the in-line 6 - the in-line six has no, repeat ZERO imbalance (whereas the 60 degree or 90 degree V6 have some inherent imbalance). The in-line three has a fore and aft imbalance, rocking motion (front to back), that can be mitigated.

See the 7th Edition Bosch Automotive Handbook, pages 474, 475 for further reference.

What I think is that we're going to see something pretty amazing - smooth & powerful - out of this and I think we should be prepared for production power trains, in the near future, using the principles unveiled in this concept. With environmental legislation looming, and peak oil near (or having already occurred) these are the cards being dealt to car manufacturers. Those that figure out how to move forward with reduced CO2 emissions and reduced access to crude, will survive. Those that don't will get governement bailouts . . . opps, did I say that? ; -)

Last edited by atr_hugo; 08-29-2009 at 02:28 PM. Reason: Added a bit of a conclusion.
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