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      08-15-2009, 03:29 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by pcarturbo911 View Post
Correction Ford owned Jaguar, Aston Martin, & Land Rover at a point in time. Everything Jaguar made was made in Coventry England. Dont get it twisted. Also Jags & Land Rover is owned by Tata Motors not Ford. Jaguar still makes its cars in England.
Are you getting rid of your porsche for a jag? If you are what's the reason?? too old for it?

And design wise i think audi still has an edge over everyone else. The interior of the XJ looks like the inside of a boat
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      08-15-2009, 03:30 PM   #46
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I'm not a fan of all of the bulging circles in the Jags interior. I think the Audi A5 interior is leagues ahead of it.

But I do think the XFR is a beautiful car. With that being said, for the money, there are several cars I'd rather have.
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      08-15-2009, 03:35 PM   #47
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I don't get you OP, you drive one of the best German engineering machines, the 997 turbo, along with the gt2 and gt3, there's noting out there except supercars than can do what the P cars do, and you are saying Germans has nothing on the English engineering, I don't get it, sure the Jag is nice, but no 997 turbo, you already own one of the finest machines in the market
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      08-15-2009, 03:50 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Chipped B6 View Post
I have one point to make.

Jag's.. are for F A G S.





JAGs =
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      08-15-2009, 03:55 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by ChinoOrtega View Post
I don't get you OP, you drive one of the best German engineering machines, the 997 turbo, along with the gt2 and gt3, there's noting out there except supercars than can do what the P cars do, and you are saying Germans has nothing on the English engineering, I don't get it, sure the Jag is nice, but no 997 turbo, you already own one of the finest machines in the market
Porsche design is too generic no style they pretty much has the same design for the past 50 years. Im dumping the Porsche and getting an XKR or DB9 Convertible. Im dumping the C55 for an XFR or the XFR "Lite".

XKR VS 911 Review


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      08-15-2009, 04:02 PM   #50
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of course it's reliable, it's a Ford, not Engish, Jag lost it's prestige long ago, now it's another ford who everyone can afford
What a load of nonsense. Firstly as pointed out repeatedly they are owned by Tata which is an Indian manufacturer of tiny, cheap sh*t boxes that only require being cheap to sell in a financially poor market so by your logic the Jag should be terrible in the reliability stakes. If Ford had any engineering input they would have destroyed the brand and not improved it's reliability.

The owner of these companies is purely a supplier of finances. They brands are still very much English. In the past that wasn't necessarily a good thing but it's changed a long time ago with foreign owners providing enough finances to continue with their products but improve on the build and quality of them.

I don't like any of the new jags from an exterior point of view. The XJ interior is stunning though IMO. The exterior is hideous on both those cars but that's just taste. There is definitely no reliability issue with modern jags and it has nothing to do with Ford or Tata other than them providing the money for the Brits to ensure they build them right.
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      08-15-2009, 04:39 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by SoreHead View Post
What a load of nonsense. Firstly as pointed out repeatedly they are owned by Tata which is an Indian manufacturer of tiny, cheap sh*t boxes that only require being cheap to sell in a financially poor market so by your logic the Jag should be terrible in the reliability stakes. If Ford had any engineering input they would have destroyed the brand and not improved it's reliability.

The owner of these companies is purely a supplier of finances. They brands are still very much English. In the past that wasn't necessarily a good thing but it's changed a long time ago with foreign owners providing enough finances to continue with their products but improve on the build and quality of them.

I don't like any of the new jags from an exterior point of view. The XJ interior is stunning though IMO. The exterior is hideous on both those cars but that's just taste. There is definitely no reliability issue with modern jags and it has nothing to do with Ford or Tata other than them providing the money for the Brits to ensure they build them right.

Somebody knows what they are talking about.
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      08-15-2009, 05:04 PM   #52
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I've read this thread and it's amusing to say the least. Guys I think you are being taken for a ride.

Most of what he has said is one person's opinion and nothing more. I wouldn't agree that the XF is the best looking car around, nor would I agree it has the best interior. But it is a good looking car, especially from the side or rear are it's interior does give a feel of luxury that neither BMW or Mercedes can match.

For me I would say that the XFR is probably the best large Sports saloon cyrrently made but it's no M3 and it was never Jag's intent to take it on.

pcarturbo911,

Congrats on your purchase but you are shit stirring here and you aren't going to make friends with this approach.
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      08-15-2009, 05:58 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by footie View Post
I've read this thread and it's amusing to say the least. Guys I think you are being taken for a ride.

Most of what he has said is one person's opinion and nothing more. I wouldn't agree that the XF is the best looking car around, nor would I agree it has the best interior. But it is a good looking car, especially from the side or rear are it's interior does give a feel of luxury that neither BMW or Mercedes can match.

For me I would say that the XFR is probably the best large Sports saloon cyrrently made but it's no M3 and it was never Jag's intent to take it on.

pcarturbo911,

Congrats on your purchase but you are shit stirring here and you aren't going to make friends with this approach.
+1
And these exact same posts from the OP are all over the forum, not just here. Somebody's obviously bored....
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      08-16-2009, 01:19 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcarturbo911 View Post
Has anyone seen the new Jag XFR. These cars are pure sex on wheels. I just test driven one a couple days ago and I am about to finalize my purchase. This Jag XFR is one of the most sexiest cars ever made. Im dumping my C55 AMG and get a Jag now. I was considering the M3 but not anymore. The 2010 XFR has a new V8 Engine Supercharged with 510hp. Not to mentions these cars have the best interiors thats far superior than competitors. I love the blue lighting of the gauges and ambiance that gives the interior a cool feeling. Also the ride is much more superior than AMG & M-Series. You have to test drive the XFR the Germans has nothing on the English engineering. This has got to be the hottest cars out. Also it can beat an M5.


XFR

Let me get this straight. You drive a 997Turbo,you own a C55, and you were thinking about an M3 yet one test drive in an english barge swayed you so much you think english car engineering is superior to german?
Something isn't right here.



Check out this comparison review:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=8146
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      08-16-2009, 01:28 AM   #55
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      08-16-2009, 05:48 AM   #56
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And another thing. You keep posting reviews of Jags taking on German cars that don't show them to be superior. At best they're running even with older teutonic designs. The five year old M5 still beat the XFR around the Top Gear track. My old 2006 CLS55 was just as quick. There's just nothing that special about the car other than it's a lot better than prev ious Jags.
Why anyone would be dumping a 997Turbo for a Jaguar is beyond me. Now if you were talking Aston Martin I'd be much more understanding. But not the pedestrian Jaguar.
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      08-16-2009, 08:52 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by 997GT3 View Post
And another thing. You keep posting reviews of Jags taking on German cars that don't show them to be superior. At best they're running even with older teutonic designs. The five year old M5 still beat the XFR around the Top Gear track. My old 2006 CLS55 was just as quick. There's just nothing that special about the car other than it's a lot better than prev ious Jags.
It Jaguar's sole purpose was to beat the M5 or CLS55 around the track then they failed BIG TIME. But having driven both the XFR and M5 and knowing how much better the Jag rides and it's superior refinement compared to the M5 then you have to conceed that Jaguar have produced a much better car than the M5. In fact the new E63amg is only slightly better yet cost a whopping 20+K more.

There's no denying that the XFR is a lot better a car than previous Jags but it's also a lot better than just about every other car in it's class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 997GT3 View Post
Why anyone would be dumping a 997Turbo for a Jaguar is beyond me. Now if you were talking Aston Martin I'd be much more understanding. But not the pedestrian Jaguar.
Agreed, the Jag XKR though a great car is not a true sportscar in the same class as what the 997Turbo is, it's only a GT. It doesn't handle like the Porsche, it neither goes as well as the Porsche and you definitely don't get the same connection with the car as you do with the Porsche. So I can only assume that he has decided the Porsche is no longer his type of car.
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      08-16-2009, 09:09 AM   #58
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I drove the XK (non-R) and I didnt think it was anything special. It felt cheap inside and all I could think while driving was that I was in a expensive Taurus. I'm sure the R is better with the added Hp...but would you spend $80K on it when you know in a year it will be worth $50k? Jag resale is among the worst in the industry.

I'd actually prefer the V8 Hyundai Genesis sedan actually. That car is amazing..!
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      08-16-2009, 09:42 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
It Jaguar's sole purpose was to beat the M5 or CLS55 around the track then they failed BIG TIME. But having driven both the XFR and M5 and knowing how much better the Jag rides and it's superior refinement compared to the M5 then you have to conceed that Jaguar have produced a much better car than the M5. In fact the new E63amg is only slightly better yet cost a whopping 20+K more.

There's no denying that the XFR is a lot better a car than previous Jags but it's also a lot better than just about every other car in it's class.


I think this is just a subjective thing that we could argue endlessly.
So here goes.
It comes down to how much weight you give to performance and how much to luxury. My opinion is if people don't think performance is that big of a deal they should just buy XFs, 550is, or E550s(all of which still perform well).
When you cross into Ms, AMGs, RSs, and -Rs luxury and comfort are less important. I have not been in the XFR but I have driven the M5 (i bought an M6 instead) and an E63. I thought the Merc and BMW were close enough in refinement that performance would be the deciding factor in a purchase. So since I haven't driven an XFR and you have but thought an E63 was better I can only assume that I'd probably prefer both German vehicles over the Jag.


Having stated all that I'm glad the guy likes Jaguar, there's nothing wrong with that. I just think this "Jaguar blows German car away" attitude is as absurd as it's untrue.
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      08-16-2009, 11:00 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subw00er View Post
I drove the XK (non-R) and I didnt think it was anything special. It felt cheap inside and all I could think while driving was that I was in a expensive Taurus. I'm sure the R is better with the added Hp...but would you spend $80K on it when you know in a year it will be worth $50k? Jag resale is among the worst in the industry.

I'd actually prefer the V8 Hyundai Genesis sedan actually. That car is amazing..!
We have a 335i Convertible (NYC Car) and a Jag XKR (Florida car) and I like them both. I don't know what XK you drove but there is no comparison between the Jag and the BMW interiors. The Jag interior gives my nephews Bentley a good run for the money.

I like both BMW and Jag but the M3 and XKR are very different cars. The Jag, as been stated by others in this thread, is a GT car and does not have the "raw" performance of the M3.

The Jag also seems to have held its value as well as the 335i
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      08-16-2009, 11:05 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 997GT3 View Post
I think this is just a subjective thing that we could argue endlessly.
Yeah, everything relating to cars is subjective. Too many variations of what is important to each individual for everyone to agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 997GT3 View Post
It comes down to how much weight you give to performance and how much to luxury. My opinion is if people don't think performance is that big of a deal they should just buy XFs, 550is, or E550s(all of which still perform well).
Don't totally agree with you here and I will explain why.

Not everyone who buys an M, RS, AMG or R buy them solely for performance but because they are either the pinnacle of their respective ranges or possibly because they happen to have to desired look, equipment, etc that just isn't available with the normal range. It may surprise everyone the amount of people who never think of taking their cars to a trackday or even test it's true potential.

Now I know almost everyone on this and every other forum won't be like that but then these forums are only a small cross section of the people who buy these cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 997GT3 View Post
When you cross into Ms, AMGs, RSs, and -Rs luxury and comfort are less important. I have not been in the XFR but I have driven the M5 (i bought an M6 instead) and an E63. I thought the Merc and BMW were close enough in refinement that performance would be the deciding factor in a purchase. So since I haven't driven an XFR and you have but thought an E63 was better I can only assume that I'd probably prefer both German vehicles over the Jag.
I would agree on the smaller M3 type models but these ones being debated here are for the fat cats of business and they generally want the best of all worlds, be it performance and luxury, in any case why should we have to compromise, I guess that is Jaguar's belief and in their XFR that is exactly what you get, it all but matches the M5 on the track yet it far superior in every other way.

Having driven both the M5 and XFR I can assure you that the XFR is far more refined than the M5. In fact at 90mph it's got less engine, wind and tyre noise than my M3 had at 50mph and I would rate my M3 with it's 18" rims to be better than the M5 I drove.

May I suggest a proper test drive in the XFR, something longer than a brief blast around the block. If you don't come away very impressed then we will never see eye to eye of this subject.

Quote:
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Having stated all that I'm glad the guy likes Jaguar, there's nothing wrong with that. I just think this "Jaguar blows German car away" attitude is as absurd as it's untrue.
On this I am at one with you, I would never say that Jaguar is better than all German cars, it may have the odd model which happens to be better in my opinion but that's just because it happens to suit my requirements, to someone else things will be different and their opinion will reflect that.

I think he's only putting every one's chain and looking at the replies he's been getting I think he's getting his desired result.
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      08-16-2009, 12:08 PM   #62
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My bros getting one in a few weeks. I will get some pics and do a couple runs with him.
You can't really compare it to the m3 imo.
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      08-16-2009, 06:28 PM   #63
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Stop arguing subjective points. It's a waste of time, and this OP is bent on persuading everyone to believe what HE thinks is right.

Don't fuel the fire.
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      08-16-2009, 06:33 PM   #64
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Are you crazy ? Jag interior > any german interior. I take me some blue gauges & lighting over some orange or white gauges. Jags make the best interiors out there way more advanced and futuristic looking.
In your opinion.

I myself don't take much of a liking towards glitzy, blue lighting and shiny everything.

BMW and Audi make interiors that look luxurious without the use of gaudy materials. If shiny materials are used, they're limited and in good taste. I like the extensive use of matte finishes, which some magazines continually refer to as "too austere".

I just went on the XJ configurator and was mildly impressed with what I could find as being the best combo (CF trim with two tone cream/brownish red). I respect people's opinions though if they prefer that kind of styling; a trait you obviously lack.
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      08-16-2009, 06:35 PM   #65
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if you like it then buy it.
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      08-16-2009, 07:26 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 997GT3 View Post
Let me get this straight. You drive a 997Turbo,you own a C55, and you were thinking about an M3 yet one test drive in an english barge swayed you so much you think english car engineering is superior to german?
Something isn't right here.



Check out this comparison review:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=8146
I think he's a bit on the extreme and the XF was never meant to compete with the 3 series. It's a 5 series car but no one can knock the quality that Jaguar cars have now achieved. That's a fact. They used to use customers to do their quality control. Build it. Sell it. When it comes back broken figure out the problems and fix them in the next batch. But that ended many many years ago. They now feature at the top or close to the top of JD Power power surveys regularly and that can't be knocked.

External and internal looks are purely taste and everyone has their own preference but it's makes no sense to say they are bad quality products.

In fact 2 or 3 years ago when the first Jag came number 1 in the JD Power the M-Class Merc came last. The closest BMW was 9th. That says it all as far as I'm concerned on quality. These surveys are owner lead and as unbiased as a survey can be (IMHO). They are definitely on a par with the best Germany is producing for quality. Driving dynamics etc are a different kettle of fish and looks are pure taste.

It's all good although I can't understand posting it here as it has no relevance to any 3 series never mind the M3????
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