Approach On The War In Iraq

[pawarrant]

I have not heard the dems offer one solution to any problem. For 5 years they just complain about everything. They are against every policy that the President has initiated to keep Americans safe. All I can say is thank God you are in the minority!

[NFS]

I think the point being made was the discernment between political dogma / received wisdom and original thought.

The poster was of the opinion that conservatives were overly dogmatic and unoriginal.

What strikes me is that the conservatives tend to see the world in black and white and have very strong opinions - this leads them to act.

Moderates have less strong opinions and see things in shades of grey - as a result they often realise that there is no simple solution - this leads them to call for the 'actions' instigated by the conservatives to stop.

[pawarrant]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

Moderates have less strong opinions and see things in shades of grey - as a result they often realise that there is no simple solution - this leads them to call for the 'actions' instigated by the conservatives to stop.

It's called having no convictions. The thing is their whole political philosophy is to bash President Bush. The real funny thing is that Bush isn't running for anything anymore. It is a mental disease that all of these liberals who have never met the man, or had him do anything to them say they "hate" him. While I think Clinton was an idiot and bad for our country, I don't hate the man.

[The Casuist]

Originally Posted by nostrum09

You are correct -- polls can be manipulated to their author's desire (look at CMD's poll!). . .

Where is this poll of CMD's you speak of?

Could you point me to it please?

Thanks!

[NFS]

Originally Posted by The Casuist

Where is this poll of CMD's you speak of?

Could you point me to it please?

Thanks!

There is a rumour ....

That you would know the exact location of the aforementioned poll

[Dante]

Originally Posted by pawarrant

(...)I'll give you that Germany and Russia are not cowards they are just corrupt, but France is a corrupt coward.

Says someone who blindly supports the Bush administration! LMAO

[pawarrant]

Originally Posted by Dante

Says someone who blindly supports the Bush administration! LMAO

The US wasn't the one getting paid off by an murderous dictator. O that's right your from Germany, you have a soft spot in your heart for people like that.

[Dante]

Originally Posted by pawarrant

The US wasn't the one getting paid off by an murderous dictator. O that's right your from Germany, you have a soft spot in your heart for people like that.

Oh, thanks for clearing that up! So, by your definition Germany is generally corrupt and all germans sympathise with murderous dictators.

Sorry, must have missed that. But I didn' t expect any other answer than that from you anyway.

So tell me, why did you purchase a german car then? To support the 'Axis Of Evil'?

Go buy a Dodge, hide in shame.

[nostrum09]

Originally Posted by Jaws

Very well said.

+1

[nostrum09]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

There is a rumour ....

That you would know the exact location of the aforementioned poll

I thought the rumor was that you're my dad?

[nostrum09]

Originally Posted by pawarrant

It's called having no convictions. The thing is their whole political philosophy is to bash President Bush. The real funny thing is that Bush isn't running for anything anymore. It is a mental disease that all of these liberals who have never met the man, or had him do anything to them say they "hate" him. While I think Clinton was an idiot and bad for our country, I don't hate the man.

I think a lot of politics (unfortunately) involves slandering those in charge. You can't honestly tell me that during Clinton's last term that conservatives just sat back and didn't say a word. Also, I imagine there's a bit of projection involved when people say they hate Bush. They really mean to say they hate Bush's policies or what he's done to the country.

As for convictions, liberals have them, too. We just realize that there's more to a situation than the black or white solution. The epitome of this black or white mindset (to me) was when Bush said that, "You're either with us, or against us in the fight against terrorism." So if a nation doesn't agree with the methods the U.S. has taken in the war on terror, that nation is suddenly against the U.S.?

[NFS]

Originally Posted by nostrum09

I think a lot of politics (unfortunately) involves slandering those in charge. You can't honestly tell me that during Clinton's last term that conservatives just sat back and didn't say a word. Also, I imagine there's a bit of projection involved when people say they hate Bush. They really mean to say they hate Bush's policies or what he's done to the country.

As for convictions, liberals have them, too. We just realize that there's more to a situation than the black or white solution. The epitome of this black or white mindset (to me) was when Bush said that, "You're either with us, or against us in the fight against terrorism." So if a nation doesn't agree with the methods the U.S. has taken in the war on terror, that nation is suddenly against the U.S.?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You're_either_with_us,_or_against_us

I love the fact that Anakin Skywalker used a version of this phrase before he fought Obi Wan Kenobi in the revenge of the sith.

Either George Lucus is one of those 'liberals' that pawarrant keeps complaining about of Bush has been lured to 'the dark side'.

"only the Sith believe in absolutes"

[pawarrant]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You're_either_with_us,_or_against_us

I love the fact that Anakin Skywalker used a version of this phrase before he fought Obi Wan Kenobi in the revenge of the sith.

Either George Lucus is one of those 'liberals' that pawarrant keeps complaining about of Bush has been lured to 'the dark side'.

"only the Sith believe in absolutes"

Star Wars is part of the fantasy land you guys live in. I try to live in the real world.

[pawarrant]

Originally Posted by Dante

Oh, thanks for clearing that up! So, by your definition Germany is generally corrupt and all germans sympathise with murderous dictators.

Sorry, must have missed that. But I didn' t expect any other answer than that from you anyway.

So tell me, why did you purchase a german car then? To support the 'Axis Of Evil'?

Go buy a Dodge, hide in shame.

Well I can't think of any other reason that you are denying that Germany was not one of the three countries involved in the oil for food corruption scandal with Saddam. You also seem to insinuate the Bush administration was somehow involved.

I am really confused what my vehicle has to do with the oil for food scandal. But to answer your question, I bought a BMW because I think it is the best quality vehicle for the money I spent. American cars in my opinion generally lack the quality. There are plenty of things I'm sure Germans buy for the same reason that are made in America. For instance the Luftwaffe uses some American built fighters, and all of their fighter pilots receive their fighter training from the US Air Force at Holloman Air Force Base, New Mexico.

[PorscheBMW]

Whether it was a good idea to lift the rock and grab the rattle snake behind the head or not, once you got hold of it you better kill it before you let go, otherwise it's going to bite you. www.******.com

[pawarrant]

Originally Posted by nostrum09

As for convictions, liberals have them, too. We just realize that there's more to a situation than the black or white solution. The epitome of this black or white mindset (to me) was when Bush said that, "You're either with us, or against us in the fight against terrorism." So if a nation doesn't agree with the methods the U.S. has taken in the war on terror, that nation is suddenly against the U.S.?

Why do you keep calling solutions "black or white"? A solution to a problem is either right or wrong. As for your citation of the President's statement, it is very clear to me that a country can either help us in fighting the terrorists, or hinder us. This is known through that nation's actions not their words. I think the same could be said for our politicians in the US. It is just a political sound bite if someone says they are for fighting against terrorism, but then vote against every tool used by our intelligence community, law enforcement, and military to fight them. It seems liberals are more worried with how other people view them then acting on what is right.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by pawarrant

Star Wars is part of the fantasy land you guys live in. I try to live in the real world.

What you mean yoda isn't real

I distrust anyone who genuinely didn't enjoy the star wars films. They are great entertainment.

The people who made star wars live in the real world and the passage I refered to was clearly an interesting and quite damning political commentary on the disengenious tactic (you are either with me or against me) that we were discussing.

You should really think harder about the phrase and try to understand it's illogical and manipulative basis.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by pawarrant

Why do you keep calling solutions "black or white"? A solution to a problem is either right or wrong.

That is the problem. You need to read up on your philosophy. Are right and wrong immutable concepts?

What about a decision between 2 outcomes which are both 'right', how to you determine which is most 'right'?

Even worse what about a decision between 2 wrongs - if people are going to be hurt by your actions do 'the needs of the many out justify the needs of the few'? In that case, does 'the end justify the means'?

The point being made was that conservatives seem to see the world in absolutes. Moderates do not.

There are 2 sides to every story and both need to be considered before determining an appropriate course of action. People with strong opinions often fail to fully understand how they have formed their opinions and they also fail to re-examine them - often continuing with losing strategies.

I am not worried about how people view me, but I am worried about how I view myself.

[nostrum09]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

That is the problem. You need to read up on your philosophy. Are right and wrong immutable concepts?

What about a decision between 2 outcomes which are both 'right', how to you determine which is most 'right'?

Even worse what about a decision between 2 wrongs - if people are going to be hurt by your actions do 'the needs of the many out justify the needs of the few'? In that case, does 'the end justify the means'?

The point being made was that conservatives seem to see the world in absolutes. Moderates do not.

There are 2 sides to every story and both need to be considered before determining an appropriate course of action. People with strong opinions often fail to fully understand how they have formed their opinions and they also fail to re-examine them - often continuing with losing strategies.

I am not worried about how people view me, but I am worried about how I view myself.

But didn't you know? Morality has no place on the battlefield! </sarcasm>

I agree with you 100% (I can thank my liberal university education and minor in philosophy for that! ).

[nostrum09]

Originally Posted by pawarrant

Why do you keep calling solutions "black or white"? A solution to a problem is either right or wrong. As for your citation of the President's statement, it is very clear to me that a country can either help us in fighting the terrorists, or hinder us. This is known through that nation's actions not their words. I think the same could be said for our politicians in the US. It is just a political sound bite if someone says they are for fighting against terrorism, but then vote against every tool used by our intelligence community, law enforcement, and military to fight them. It seems liberals are more worried with how other people view them then acting on what is right.

"... it is very clear to me that a country can either help us in fighting the terrorists, or hinder us."

What about a country which chooses not to take part in this battle? They're not helping us, but they're not hindering us. Or is their lack of positive action indicative that they are against us?

[pawarrant]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

The point being made was that conservatives seem to see the world in absolutes. Moderates do not...

Conservatives act. Liberals ponder. Moderates sit on the sidelines and watch.

B.T.W. I love Star Wars. I just think it is sad using movies and fiction to formulate policy on a war where real people's lives are at stake. On a side note why do the bad guys have cooler uniforms?

[pawarrant]

Originally Posted by nostrum09

"... it is very clear to me that a country can either help us in fighting the terrorists, or hinder us."

What about a country which chooses not to take part in this battle? They're not helping us, but they're not hindering us. Or is their lack of positive action indicative that they are against us?

If a country chooses not to take part in this battle, the terrorists will eventually bring the battle to them. An extremely naive opinion is that if we don't bother them they won't bother us. The terrorists want to kill all non-Muslims, and even Muslims that don't support them. So unless a nation supports the terrorists, they will eventually effect that nation in someway.