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      08-14-2009, 06:25 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerich0 View Post
Will the S5 share the same 3.0T engine ???
Yes. But not until the 2011 comes out. Prior to that it has the 4.2L V8.
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      08-14-2009, 06:34 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by SROC5 View Post
then again, I got my pretty fully optioned 335 coupe for $47K ish because the economy is soo bad they sold it at cost. Same thing would apply to a 335 sedan more so. S4s are going to be full price, maybe marked up. Regardless, numbers on the S4 are damn impressive.
The other thing we have to remember is that the 3 series is mid cycle - the 4-series of Skoda/VW/Audi is just new. This tech has to keep the Skoda/VW/Audi in front for the next few years. Will it? No.

The new M3 destroyed the RS4 - but the RS4 is old tech, so that did make sense.

Will the next 3-series fall behind the latest 4-series from Skoda/VW/Audi? No. Skoda/VW/Audi are just like Microsoft. Wait to see what Apple does, then copy it and make it cheaper.

All you "I want people to look at me" people should jump ship now - go buy the S4. You probably won't notice the lack of driver engagement and will probably call the interior "luxury".

I rest my case.
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      08-14-2009, 06:35 PM   #69
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I really have no clue what you guys are talking about?? Maybe a stipper model?
I just priced one out at over $60K... That is M3 pricing... E90 335 is no where near that...

Your Audi S4Total Price
$ 60,225 Engine

S4 Prestige 3.0 TFSI quattro 333 HP S tronic$ 53,400

Exterior
Sprint Blue, pearl effect$ 475

Interior
S sports seat Silk Nappa leather Tuscan brown black

Equipment
Audi drive select package$ 3,950
Carbon Atlas decorative inlays$ 500
Silk Nappa leather$ 1,000
Driver Assist package$ 900
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      08-14-2009, 06:40 PM   #70
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I love rwd and the precise steering/handling of a BMW that no Audi I have ever driven could match. I like Audis. If BMWs did not exist and I couldn't afford a Porsche then I would buy one. An Avant S4, most likely.

Hopefully this will push BMW to settle the issue decisively by (1) offering a supersport/ti variant of the 335 (the tturbo M3 will take care of itself, no need to worry about niche divergence), (2) further crimping Audi market share in NA by bringing the 320d and 330d, (3) expand engine options for the E91 (as per #2), and (4) providing more interesting interior options (e.g., the BMW Perf seats would be a start).

EuroDelivery also continues to be the deal-breaker for me. I won't buy a car any other way. An E9x ZMP is still under 40k for me out the door.
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      08-14-2009, 06:48 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
I really have no clue what you guys are talking about?? Maybe a stipper model?
I just priced one out at over $60K... That is M3 pricing... E90 335 is no where near that...

Your Audi S4Total Price
$ 60,225 Engine

S4 Prestige 3.0 TFSI quattro 333 HP S tronic$ 53,400

Exterior
Sprint Blue, pearl effect$ 475

Interior
S sports seat Silk Nappa leather Tuscan brown black

Equipment
Audi drive select package$ 3,950
Carbon Atlas decorative inlays$ 500
Silk Nappa leather$ 1,000
Driver Assist package$ 900
Agreed. Yes it starts at $45k for the base version (Premium), but then add a few, in my opinion, "must have" options and the price shoots up quickly. Have fun with your purchases guys. Don't get me wrong, the interior is beautiful and it's a nice car, but for a few thousand more I can have a M3-TT in a couple years....assuming it doesnt look terrible.
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      08-14-2009, 06:48 PM   #72
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Doesn't Audi have euro delivery also?
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      08-14-2009, 07:03 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Doesn't Audi have euro delivery also?
Yes, but good luck negotiating the same level of cost savings.

With 'hot' models (e.g., when I got the first E90 335), you can still get ED invoice + 1k, or about 12% off MSRP. Now of course you can negotiate even slightly better deals. When I was comparison shopping I couldn't find anything better than 5% off Audi. Still, kudos to Audi for having ED, even if it isn't quite the bargain that BMW offers. I think Porsche charges extra for it.
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      08-14-2009, 07:43 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude View Post
Agreed. Yes it starts at $45k for the base version (Premium), but then add a few, in my opinion, "must have" options and the price shoots up quickly. Have fun with your purchases guys. Don't get me wrong, the interior is beautiful and it's a nice car, but for a few thousand more I can have a M3-TT in a couple years....assuming it doesnt look terrible.
+1. my lease is up in about 1 1/2 years. we'll see where BMWs 3 series is at cuz thats around the time the new body should be coming out. or sneak peaks of it.


Edit: theyre both great cars. You cant lose either way. Just depends where your heart, wallet and needs are.
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Last edited by roozie2001; 08-14-2009 at 08:02 PM.
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      08-14-2009, 07:58 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubenhocker View Post
For all of you Audi fanboys;

Nice job brah, that's not even the same car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrad01 View Post
That would be good! Then you will realise that the Skoda/VW/Audi S4 is actually just another incorrectly engineered car like all Skoda/VW/Audis.

Just to add a little balance to this, Top Gear magazine just completed a review of the Audi S4, BMW M335 and Merc Csomething...

Here is the final results and finishing paragraph:

1. BMW 335i
2. Audi S4
3. Merc Csomething...who cares

"The S4 didn't win. Dynamically it is a throwback to the previous model, which also felt like each of the four wheels didn't know where the others were going - and the body had another idea altogether. Push any of this versions many buttons and you still get a variation on ordinary. Bring on the RS4. Whatever it costs, it will be better value than this."

This is absolutely a typical Skoda/VW/Audi summary.

No matter what a Skoda/VW/Audi looks like from the outside (and I will admit, some do look hot) that initial "wow" goes away once I get into the tacky interior (those without any design sense use the word luxury) and then I give it back after I (once again) realise I have been fooled by a good looking car with no tactile driver's feedback and a cheezy "buttons everywhere" and "stick leather here, nice shiny bit there" interior which really is terrible to operate.

The best thing you can do is go to a driver comparison day. Get into the Skoda/VW/Audi first and drive it around - and then immediately get into a BMW. I have not seen one person yet who wants to get back into the Skoda/VW/Audi.

When I see an Audi less than a RS model with someone trying to drive fast - the words "OMG, clueless" enter my head. And then after meeting the driver - that's generally true.

I look forward to your "BMW fanboy", "Car snob", "You have no idea" etc etc flames. Already heard them before. All I ask is people THINK rather than go "ooooooh, that's nice looking. My mates will think I'm neato if I turn up in this!"


Just to finish off, here is another quote from Top Gear Magazine:
"The S4's steering is on Valium and about to nod off compared to the BMW it becomes imprecise and shakes itself senseless through choppy bends"
The results are still split on this. Both the mainstream British publications have preferred the dynamics of the 335i. I've read multiple German publications and an Australian publication that preferred the S4's dynamics.

Here's an example for those who read German...

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/v...__BMW_335i.pdf

I've driven both and I have some seat time in the new S4 on a track. It's every bit to me as good as the 335i, and better in some ways...espeically in the wet (that's me drifting below).



In all seriousness, they are both great cars and I could see the US car mags going either way. They will probably side with the S4 though because it will win on paper anyway. They drive differently...some testers prefer the S4's dynamics and some prefer the BMW's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrad01 View Post
where is the rest of the article? I would like to see the outcome.
They prefer the S4.














Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Unreal how many Audi fanboy trolls are on here... The kind of people that only buy a car for the badge and looks and have never even driven by a race track, let alone on one
Yeah Ramos. I've never been on a racetrack.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/E...ure_175600.htm

Actually I'm driving in all the clips in the video above. I shipped my Audi to Europe, burried the needle at 185 mph, and drove tracks like the Nurburgring and Spa for 3 years straight.

How 'bout you?



I also had a fantastic E34 535i which had M5/8 series running gear (at the 'ring below)

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      08-14-2009, 08:08 PM   #76
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Not sure what the point of your post is... Yes you can add tons of options to get the S4 over $60k, but for the same set of options, the 335(ix) and s4 are "similar" in price.

The "stripper" S4 model is the premium plus which is actually very well equipped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
I really have no clue what you guys are talking about?? Maybe a stipper model?
I just priced one out at over $60K... That is M3 pricing... E90 335 is no where near that...

Your Audi S4Total Price
$ 60,225 Engine

S4 Prestige 3.0 TFSI quattro 333 HP S tronic$ 53,400

Exterior
Sprint Blue, pearl effect$ 475

Interior
S sports seat Silk Nappa leather Tuscan brown black

Equipment
Audi drive select package$ 3,950
Carbon Atlas decorative inlays$ 500
Silk Nappa leather$ 1,000
Driver Assist package$ 900
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      08-14-2009, 08:11 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
I really have no clue what you guys are talking about?? Maybe a stipper model?
I just priced one out at over $60K... That is M3 pricing... E90 335 is no where near that...

Your Audi S4Total Price
$ 60,225 Engine

S4 Prestige 3.0 TFSI quattro 333 HP S tronic$ 53,400

Exterior
Sprint Blue, pearl effect$ 475

Interior
S sports seat Silk Nappa leather Tuscan brown black

Equipment
Audi drive select package$ 3,950
Carbon Atlas decorative inlays$ 500
Silk Nappa leather$ 1,000
Driver Assist package$ 900

I actually priced one out the way I'd like it and I thought it was quite reasonable. However, if you load up the options, it does get pricey.

Your Audi S4
Total Price
$ 48,700

Engine
S4 Premium Plus 3.0 TFSI quattro 333 HP 6 speed
$ 45,900

Exterior
Ibis White

Interior
S sports seat
Alcantara / Leather
Black interior

Equipment
Sports Rear Differential Package
$ 1,100
Carbon Atlas decorative inlays
$ 500
Bang & Olufsen Sound System
$ 850
Rear side airbags*
$ 350


Leif W.
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      08-14-2009, 08:39 PM   #78
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Verrückt,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verrückt View Post

Yeah Ramos. I've never been on a racetrack.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/E...ure_175600.htm

Actually I'm driving in all the clips in the video above. I shipped my Audi to Europe, burried the needle at 185 mph, and drove tracks like the Nurburgring and Spa for 3 years straight.
That's a cool video. I don't know why, but I got a chuckle from the clip of the model plane flying in the living room sandwiched between all the driving clips.

You mention having some seat time in the new S4. How does the steeering feel compare to the 335i? Ditto on the shift feel.

Thanks,
Leif
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      08-14-2009, 10:38 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeifW View Post
Verrückt,



That's a cool video. I don't know why, but I got a chuckle from the clip of the model plane flying in the living room sandwiched between all the driving clips.

You mention having some seat time in the new S4. How does the steeering feel compare to the 335i? Ditto on the shift feel.

Thanks,
Leif
Hey Leif, thanks for the kind words.

I have to say that I'm impressed how impartial and level headed most are here.

As I said above, both are fantastic cars. The steering feel on the Audi depends greatly if the car is equipped with drive select. If it is, the steering is much more dynamic, meaning it can be light and easy at parking lot speeds and firms up quite well when pushed harder.

It's an improvement over previous Audi offerings, there's a lot less weight on the front end and the lion's share of torque goes to the rear. In pure steering feel and feedback, the 335i still has a slight edge IMO (just due to less weight and no drivetrain), though it's really close.

I think the S4 more than compensates with better damped suspension, suspension adjustabililty, and the sport torque vectoring rear differential which can do things the 335i can't. For example, the differential works on braking as well inducing trail braking when the stability control is switched off.

Granted, I've only driven the S4 on a wet racetrack, so I can't vouch for it's dry weather 10/10 performance.

My review of the S4 is here...

http://www.audiworld.com/news/08/b8-s4-first-drive/

Shifting feel is a little more difficult as I didn't sit in the cars on the same day. From memory, the S4 has slightly shorter throws with a more precise feel. The 335i is a bit more rubbery.
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      08-14-2009, 11:12 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verrückt View Post
Hey Leif, thanks for the kind words.

I have to say that I'm impressed how impartial and level headed most are here.

...

My review of the S4 is here...

http://www.audiworld.com/news/08/b8-s4-first-drive/
Impartial like getting paid to write a review for Audiworld? I'm just saying..

(Insert "I'm absolutely not being paid to say nice things about Skoda/VW/Audi" here...)

We believe you. Honest.
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      08-14-2009, 11:29 PM   #81
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just priced a s4 to 51k with pretty good optins...
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      08-14-2009, 11:32 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verrückt View Post
I would have definitely considered the S4 if it was available when I bought by 335. My guess is that acceleration times will be similar. The torque and hp curves on the 335 are so much flatter than the S4 and I can chip the bimmer for 500 bones that will give me 50 more hp and torque. I'll take the inline turbo 3L-6. Based on my past Audi test drives in all likelihood I just won't like it. The RS4 on the other hand, that I likey, a lot. If the new S4 feels more like the last generation RS4, then Audi has something.
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      08-15-2009, 01:23 AM   #83
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if audi is more reliable than the 335 the s4 will be my next car..
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      08-15-2009, 01:41 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrad01 View Post
That would be good! Then you will realise that the Skoda/VW/Audi S4 is actually just another incorrectly engineered car like all Skoda/VW/Audis.

Just to add a little balance to this, Top Gear magazine just completed a review of the Audi S4, BMW M335 and Merc Csomething...

Here is the final results and finishing paragraph:

1. BMW 335i
2. Audi S4
3. Merc Csomething...who cares

"The S4 didn't win. Dynamically it is a throwback to the previous model, which also felt like each of the four wheels didn't know where the others were going - and the body had another idea altogether. Push any of this versions many buttons and you still get a variation on ordinary. Bring on the RS4. Whatever it costs, it will be better value than this."

This is absolutely a typical Skoda/VW/Audi summary.

No matter what a Skoda/VW/Audi looks like from the outside (and I will admit, some do look hot) that initial "wow" goes away once I get into the tacky interior (those without any design sense use the word luxury) and then I give it back after I (once again) realise I have been fooled by a good looking car with no tactile driver's feedback and a cheezy "buttons everywhere" and "stick leather here, nice shiny bit there" interior which really is terrible to operate.

The best thing you can do is go to a driver comparison day. Get into the Skoda/VW/Audi first and drive it around - and then immediately get into a BMW. I have not seen one person yet who wants to get back into the Skoda/VW/Audi.

When I see an Audi less than a RS model with someone trying to drive fast - the words "OMG, clueless" enter my head. And then after meeting the driver - that's generally true.

I look forward to your "BMW fanboy", "Car snob", "You have no idea" etc etc flames. Already heard them before. All I ask is people THINK rather than go "ooooooh, that's nice looking. My mates will think I'm neato if I turn up in this!"


Just to finish off, here is another quote from Top Gear Magazine:
"The S4's steering is on Valium and about to nod off compared to the BMW it becomes imprecise and shakes itself senseless through choppy bends"
You base your opinion off of one Top Gear review? I think everyone should drive the S4 for themselves before telling others it is a horrible car. And I also don't get your point on S models driving fast making the driver clueless. I don't see why people can't enjoy what they have. That's be like saying seeing a car lesser than an M model driving fast would make make the driver clueless.
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      08-15-2009, 01:50 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrad01 View Post
The other thing we have to remember is that the 3 series is mid cycle - the 4-series of Skoda/VW/Audi is just new. This tech has to keep the Skoda/VW/Audi in front for the next few years. Will it? No.

The new M3 destroyed the RS4 - but the RS4 is old tech, so that did make sense.

Will the next 3-series fall behind the latest 4-series from Skoda/VW/Audi? No. Skoda/VW/Audi are just like Microsoft. Wait to see what Apple does, then copy it and make it cheaper.

All you "I want people to look at me" people should jump ship now - go buy the S4. You probably won't notice the lack of driver engagement and will probably call the interior "luxury".

I rest my case.
Again, if people want to buy the damn car, leave them alone. You obviously have problems with "lesser" cars than BMW because you can't let go of the fact that Audi has stepped up to the plate. Yes, find more excuses to deter people from buying the car. Your opinion would be more valid if you have driven one. Have you? No. 335is are great cars, I was planning on getting one and enjoyed the torquey experience. But talking trash about a car you have never driven/owned is plain ignorant.
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      08-15-2009, 02:03 AM   #86
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<correction> If they are into to speed, and not just Comfy cozy recaros...
They're no longer Recaros.
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      08-15-2009, 02:08 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domobrown View Post
Again, if people want to buy the damn car, leave them alone. You obviously have problems with "lesser" cars than BMW because you can't let go of the fact that Audi has stepped up to the plate. Yes, find more excuses to deter people from buying the car. Your opinion would be more valid if you have driven one. Have you? No. 335is are great cars, I was planning on getting one and enjoyed the torquey experience. But talking trash about a car you have never driven/owned is plain ignorant.
welcome to e90post.. remember, everyone here has the mentality that "my chipped 335/135 can beat your X"
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      08-15-2009, 03:22 AM   #88
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My conscious are so conflicted right now it hurts. Part of me thinks S4 just lost some of its prestige going down market, while the other part scream, what a great deal. S4 use to go head to head with the m3, although never caught up to m3 it was a cool car none the less. The wagon will be a great blend of practicality and performance. I am going to go down to Audi and have a test drive. Hopefully the Audi kept the weight down if not my #1 car is still cayman
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