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      08-12-2009, 06:36 PM   #23
Jason@Renn-Spec
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E-85 all the way!
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      08-12-2009, 06:41 PM   #24
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It's also recommended that you use a fuel system cleaner every so often.

Red Line - SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner

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      08-12-2009, 06:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony @ eas View Post
It's also recommended that you use a fuel system cleaner every so often.

Red Line - SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner

arnt fuel system cleaners bad for our cars?
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      08-12-2009, 07:19 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FifthStreetz View Post
good idea.

I prefer shell 93...i drive a extra 10 miles just to fill up on it...if i cant get shell then i get Sunoco 93, because thats the only other gas station around me that doesnt put enthanol.
I hate to tell you this, but it's not the gas station putting in ethanol, it is the refinery, and it doesn't matter whether it is Shell, Exxon/Mobil, Texaco, Sunoco, or whatever--it all comes from the same refineries.

The only difference between brands is detergent additive packages, which are added to the tanker at each loading point. Those additives depend upon whether the tanker is going to a Shell or some other station. Ethanol is NOT part of the additive package.

Ethanol use is largely location-specific in this country. If where you live is the location identified below your avatar, you are getting about 10% ethanol in your Shell or Sunoco.
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      08-12-2009, 07:22 PM   #27
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its all the same
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      08-12-2009, 07:25 PM   #28
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Shell 93 has been the only gas put in my M, I know this because they gave me the car on empty.
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      08-12-2009, 07:29 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
its all the same

. . . except for additive packages, which can make a big difference in terms of keeping valves and combustion chambers clean. That is THE reason for going with a Top Tier-certified fuel such as Shell . . . it's all in the additives.

In terms of ethanol, it is all the same in a given location, despite the brand, although it does vary across the country. There are Federal regulations for mixtures in urban vs. rural areas, and winter vs. summer mixes to control pollution. Virtually all of the mid-Atlantic and northeast US are classified as an "urban area," and you're getting ethanol a good portion of the year.

And then there is California . . .
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      08-12-2009, 08:03 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony @ eas View Post
It's also recommended that you use a fuel system cleaner every so often.

Red Line - SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner

Recommended by who?? Not by BMW and anything I've read on cleaning additives says that the crap they claim to clean doesn't exist anymore anyway. I'll pass I think.

As for the Ethanol. At least in Canada they have to say on the pump when it's 10% etc so you can pick and choose if you don't want to have it. My only problem is that I don't want to use less than 94 and therefore I'm stuck with Sunoco (Canadians correct if I'm wrong) which does have Ethanol. At 10% it's not going to cause any longevity problems but it will affect MPG. E85 runs at about 2/3 the mpg of 100% petrol. So E10 will affect it but not hugely.

What's the lowest octane anyone runs their M3 on regularly?
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      08-12-2009, 08:31 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoreHead View Post
As for the Ethanol. At least in Canada they have to say on the pump when it's 10% etc so you can pick and choose if you don't want to have it. My only problem is that I don't want to use less than 94 and therefore I'm stuck with Sunoco (Canadians correct if I'm wrong) which does have Ethanol. At 10% it's not going to cause any longevity problems but it will affect MPG. E85 runs at about 2/3 the mpg of 100% petrol. So E10 will affect it but not hugely.
In the U.S., it generally is posted somewhere on the pump, "This product may may contain up to 10% ethanol." That is because the ethanol content could vary by area and time of year, or certain stations may be sloppy about keeping the stickers updated. This posting may also vary from state to state and may not be present everywhere.

The ethanol question is another good argument for buying only Top Tier-certified fuel. One of the standards is no more than 10% ethanol.

I hope no one believes the rather irresponsible posts above about E85 (85% ethanol). Check your BMW owner's manual, which states up to 10% is OK, but anything over is not. Only certain cars, including many GM models have been modified to run on E85. There are no BMW models certified for E85, at least not in the U.S.
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      08-12-2009, 08:36 PM   #32
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No more Sunoco 94 in the US.
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      08-12-2009, 09:20 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foosh View Post
In the U.S., it generally is posted somewhere on the pump, "This product may may contain up to 10% ethanol." That is because the ethanol content could vary by area and time of year, or certain stations may be sloppy about keeping the stickers updated. This posting may also vary from state to state and may not be present everywhere.

The ethanol question is another good argument for buying only Top Tier-certified fuel. One of the standards is no more than 10% ethanol.

I hope no one believes the rather irresponsible posts above about E85 (85% ethanol). Check your BMW owner's manual, which states up to 10% is OK, but anything over is not. Only certain cars, including many GM models have been modified to run on E85. There are no BMW models certified for E85, at least not in the U.S.
Oh Jayzus. Don't put E85 in any car that doesn't expressly state that it is modified for it.
On the positive side of E85, while you only get 2/3 mpg you do get more bhp so those of us that care less about mpg and more about bhp should cheer on manufacturers like koenigsegg
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      08-12-2009, 09:33 PM   #34
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Sometimes I still wonder if you are getting what you think you are pumping out of the ground. I have seen some off brand tankers at some stations and also worry about the actual % of ethanol in the gas. If it is cheaper to include more ethanol in the gas, I would think that they try to include as much as they can get away with....which will give the cars problems. How do you go about getting the fuel at a particular station analyzed?
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      08-12-2009, 09:41 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoE46 View Post
How do you go about getting the fuel at a particular station analyzed?
I think by having more money than sense
No way really. You have to go with the assumption that if they got caught pissing around they'd lose so much business it's not worth the risk I guess.
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      08-12-2009, 09:56 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoE46 View Post
Sometimes I still wonder if you are getting what you think you are pumping out of the ground. I have seen some off brand tankers at some stations and also worry about the actual % of ethanol in the gas. If it is cheaper to include more ethanol in the gas, I would think that they try to include as much as they can get away with....which will give the cars problems. How do you go about getting the fuel at a particular station analyzed?
Once again, ethanol content is mixed at the refinery, and all gas, regardless of brand, is the same at the refinery prior to loading for distribution to all station brands.

It doesn't matter what "off-brand" tanker delivers it to whatever brand station. The only thing that is supposed to happen when the tanker is loaded is that the appropriate detergent additive package is added if it is destined for an Exxon/Mobil, Shell, Chevron, Amoco/BP, or whatever station.
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      08-12-2009, 10:57 PM   #37
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93 to 100octane
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      08-13-2009, 01:02 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foosh View Post
...Check your BMW owner's manual, which states up to 10% is OK, but anything over is not...
I thought BMW actually recommended 10% ethanol, as opposed to allowing it.

Right? Wrong?

Bruce
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      08-13-2009, 02:59 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony @ eas View Post
It's also recommended that you use a fuel system cleaner every so often.

Red Line - SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner

Fifth Gear did an episode on these things and "performance" stuff that you add to your gas and it either did nothing at all, or made the engine/HP worse. They also found that going from 91 to 93 octane can make significant HP increases in performance cars but does nothing for your average Honda.

For gas I like British Petroleum (BP) Ultimate-93 over Shell V-Power but Shell comes in a close 2nd.
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      08-13-2009, 05:58 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koroush View Post
Somebody told me it was Shell 93, but there was no proof.. i just heard it.

What would the best Brand of Gas be for an M3? Like Pure gasoline with no ethanol garbage that is supposedly a cause of the fuel pump failures that BMWs are having.

Thanks.
i put in sunoco ultra whenever i can . there are no shell stations by me and no 76 stations in jersey. good thing cause if i saw racing fuel 100 octane id put it in
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      08-13-2009, 06:26 AM   #41
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Shell, sunoco, and BP are the best.

The rest are for your average hondas.


According to this thread.
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      08-13-2009, 07:07 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
I thought BMW actually recommended 10% ethanol, as opposed to allowing it.

Right? Wrong?

Bruce
BMW definitely does not recommend 10% ethanol.

What the manual says is that using up to 10% ethanol will not void the warranty:
"Fuel containing up to and including 10% ethanol or other oxygenates with up to 2.8% oxygen by weight... will not void the applicable warranties with respect to defects in materials or workmanship."
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      08-13-2009, 07:28 AM   #43
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Here in northern va, it seems like all our gas stations have 10% etoh.

But ever since I bought the car, all I've been using is Shell 93.
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      08-13-2009, 07:54 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony @ eas View Post
Red Line - SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner[/b]
Looks like beer to me so, cheers mate!

Anyway, I am always using Shell's V-Power Racing which is (supposed to be) 100 octanes. The normal V-Power is 95-98 octanes, at least here in Greece.
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