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      08-07-2009, 12:38 AM   #1
sayemthree
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Cash (your tac dollars) for clunkers?

Is this how you want your tax dollars spent? is this just handing tax dollars back to big, failing, corparations? or another attempt to re-distribute wealth? or both? it sure is popular but all free handouts are.
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      08-07-2009, 03:04 PM   #2
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it really pisses me off. Now people who cant afford these new cars to begin with are going to purchase one. They are going to end up being repoed just like the current housing mess
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      08-07-2009, 03:33 PM   #3
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it really pisses me off. Now people who cant afford these new cars to begin with are going to purchase one. They are going to end up being repoed just like the current housing mess
I would love to see the statistics a year from now on what percentage cash-for-clunkers cars were repoed for non payment.
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      08-08-2009, 07:30 AM   #4
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it really pisses me off. Now people who cant afford these new cars to begin with are going to purchase one. They are going to end up being repoed just like the current housing mess
WOW, do you even have the slightest idea what was the reason behind the housing mess??? Ask your daddy to explain...
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      08-10-2009, 02:10 AM   #5
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it really pisses me off. Now people who cant afford these new cars to begin with are going to purchase one. They are going to end up being repoed just like the current housing mess
your tax dollars hard at Work!
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      08-10-2009, 10:19 AM   #6
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your tax dollars hard at Work!
HIS tax money???
The kid has not seen an hour of work in his life, but is pissed that someone's spending something...

His daddy's tax money...
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      08-10-2009, 10:54 AM   #7
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The Toyota Corolla has overtaken the Ford Focus as the top new vehicle purchased through the "cash for clunkers" program, the Department of Transportation said Wednesday.

That means foreign automakers produce five of the six top-selling vehicles

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      08-10-2009, 11:03 AM   #8
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I would love to see the statistics a year from now on what percentage cash-for-clunkers cars were repoed for non payment.
It will be lower than typical. Many of them were bought not only with the CARS $3,500-$4,500 discount, but up to an additional $4,500 manufacturer discount. That means around $9,000 of the price of the car may already be paid off.

This makes a big difference on repos, because these folks won't be underwater in their cars. So they will be able to sell their cars much easier if they get into financial troubles.

On top of that, a number of the major manufacturers sold these cars with various hardship protection programs in effect. So if buyers lose their jobs, they might have a number of options depending on who they bought from. Everything from being allowed to return the vehicle and have the loan forgiven with no negative consequences, to having their car payments paid in full for them through an employment insurance taken out on their behalf.

The Repo-man just isn't going to get as much business as you claim.

-------------------------------------------------------

So now I'll just sit back and wait for some idiot right-winger to complain about how the US gov't is taking jobs away from the poor Repo-men out there....
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      08-10-2009, 01:21 PM   #9
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One thing I'll be very interested to see is how auto sales will be next year since people have already bought cars during this program. I'm speculating auto sales will be dramatically lower next year as many just chose to buy a car this year rather than in the next couple of years because of the program.

What makes me mad though is that the cars that are traded in through the program are just absolutely WASTED! Just wasting a still perfectly serviceable asset just is crack-pot economics. Think about how many people who can't afford a decent form of transportation could benefit from a government bargain-basement sale of these cars, especially for those in low-income brackets who could really need the utility offered by a people-hauler and/or truck destroyed by this program! It wouldn't hurt the government to get some money back as the allotted money for this program is being drained so quickly! I know it's for environmental purposes, but c'mon, these cars aren't going to last forever, eventually those who bought "clunkers" would buy more fuel efficient cars as they trickle down from those who could afford them first (especially as fuel-efficiency is becoming such a primary goal with automakers, and consumer taste is changing away from gas-guzzlers).
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      08-12-2009, 02:24 PM   #10
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OK- this takes approximately 3 hours of total federal spending for the year. As far as stimulus goes, it's probably pretty effective as it gets a lot of people with spare cars to buy new ones. These are people who can afford a new car, but choose not to or normally choose to buy new. I'm actually considering trading in my 95 Cherokee on this because I could get 2x what it's worth, but normally I never buy new, and wasn't in the market, so in that regard I suppose it's working. I just took really good care of that Jeep so I hate to trash it.

That said, I'm against the spending of money on this, and am REALLY against paying to destroy something of VALUE. If a $2500 car is crushed and traded in for $4500, we all lose $2k in tax money, but there's also $2500 of value that is NO LONGER IN THE ECONOMY. It's the broken window fallacy (google it).
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      08-12-2009, 06:08 PM   #11
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One thing I'll be very interested to see is how auto sales will be next year since people have already bought cars during this program. I'm speculating auto sales will be dramatically lower next year as many just chose to buy a car this year rather than in the next couple of years because of the program.

What makes me mad though is that the cars that are traded in through the program are just absolutely WASTED! Just wasting a still perfectly serviceable asset just is crack-pot economics. Think about how many people who can't afford a decent form of transportation could benefit from a government bargain-basement sale of these cars, especially for those in low-income brackets who could really need the utility offered by a people-hauler and/or truck destroyed by this program! It wouldn't hurt the government to get some money back as the allotted money for this program is being drained so quickly! I know it's for environmental purposes, but c'mon, these cars aren't going to last forever, eventually those who bought "clunkers" would buy more fuel efficient cars as they trickle down from those who could afford them first (especially as fuel-efficiency is becoming such a primary goal with automakers, and consumer taste is changing away from gas-guzzlers).

Getting rid of the clunkers has the net effect of raising back up the value of the cars still left (as in your car and my car).

This is good, since a ton of people who weren't upside down in their loans before the economic crash, will go back to not being upside down in their loans. The economic crash and high gas prices really sunk the values a lot of people's cars. This program pushes those values back up towards where they were before.

This is good, because more people will now be able to actually sell their used cars for enough money that they can buy a new car. Thus we get even more economic stimulus out of money we've already spent.

------------------------------------------------------------

Besides, one of the major points was to get these cars off the road so they wouldn't continue to waste gas, sending tons of cash overseas strengthening our enemies. The average improvement in this "fleet" of C4C cars is 61% less fuel.

The way I see it, that is a 61% bigger hit against our enemies compared to leaving them on the road. And they can suck my tailpipe.
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      08-12-2009, 11:29 PM   #12
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Getting rid of the clunkers has the net effect of raising back up the value of the cars still left (as in your car and my car).

This is good, .
its good.....as long as its NOT spending my TAX DOLLARS!!!! spend you own money to replace junk cars. not mine.

its just another hidden bail out for failed corporations.
let them fail, they deserve it. dont propr them up artifiacially with tax dollars.
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      08-13-2009, 09:55 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
Getting rid of the clunkers has the net effect of raising back up the value of the cars still left (as in your car and my car).

This is good, since a ton of people who weren't upside down in their loans before the economic crash, will go back to not being upside down in their loans. The economic crash and high gas prices really sunk the values a lot of people's cars. This program pushes those values back up towards where they were before.

This is good, because more people will now be able to actually sell their used cars for enough money that they can buy a new car. Thus we get even more economic stimulus out of money we've already spent.

------------------------------------------------------------

Besides, one of the major points was to get these cars off the road so they wouldn't continue to waste gas, sending tons of cash overseas strengthening our enemies. The average improvement in this "fleet" of C4C cars is 61% less fuel.

The way I see it, that is a 61% bigger hit against our enemies compared to leaving them on the road. And they can suck my tailpipe.
Yes it should bring up the values of cars on the road today, but at the same time this eliminates economic activity associated with used car sales. Essentially what is happening is that we are giving business to new car dealerships, and taking it away from used car dealerships. I would have less of a problem with this program if it wasn't segregated towards one industry only (although I would still have a problem with it because of other issues I listed above). And of course, like I said, this is not going to help out new car sales in the long-run, it is just like duct taping the problem for a short-term fix.

Also, if people really were upside-down in loans with the poor economy, they should not be buying a new car right now to begin with. So now are you not only just slapping duct-tape on the new car sales problem, but you are creating potential problems for consumers who had trouble paying car loans in the first place by putting them further in debt (prolonging the consumer's problem as well, therefore even further magnifying the auto industry's problem).

The government shouldn't be creating the illusion to consumers the can do something they actually can't. At least if certain entities in the private sector do it, they ultimately fail and our economy evolves from it.
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      08-14-2009, 07:24 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
Getting rid of the clunkers has the net effect of raising back up the value of the cars still left (as in your car and my car).

This is good, since a ton of people who weren't upside down in their loans before the economic crash, will go back to not being upside down in their loans. The economic crash and high gas prices really sunk the values a lot of people's cars. This program pushes those values back up towards where they were before.

This is good, because more people will now be able to actually sell their used cars for enough money that they can buy a new car. Thus we get even more economic stimulus out of money we've already spent.

------------------------------------------------------------

Besides, one of the major points was to get these cars off the road so they wouldn't continue to waste gas, sending tons of cash overseas strengthening our enemies. The average improvement in this "fleet" of C4C cars is 61% less fuel.

The way I see it, that is a 61% bigger hit against our enemies compared to leaving them on the road. And they can suck my tailpipe.
That's right. See, when the vandal breaks the window of the baker's shop it is has an economic benefit. See the baker has to buy a new window from the glazier who has money to spend at the bakery ...

FWIW, most of our oil imprts come from Mexico and Canada... Enemies?
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      08-19-2009, 02:49 PM   #15
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Government at its best. They can't even run cash for clunkers efficiently and these guys want to run your health care.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1
Quote:
Hundreds of auto dealers in the New York area have withdrawn from the government's Cash for Clunkers program, citing delays in getting reimbursed by the government, a dealership group said Wednesday.
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      08-20-2009, 10:20 AM   #16
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Government at its best. They can't even run cash for clunkers efficiently and these guys want to run your health care.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1
How about that part where it said the dealers have been reimbursed so far for about 2% of the clunker deals they have completed so far? I guess the government thinks it's OK to take their sweet time reimbursing dealers and let dealers suffer as they are having to cope with selling cars at a loss just hoping they will be reimbursed in a timely manner? Maybe the government just has no concept of how a dealership is supposed to manage its cash flow to remain profitable and in business. Or maybe we should be putting the blame on the administration and bureaucracy behind the clunkers program for the delayed payments to dealers? If that's the case, this potential issue should have been properly disclosed to participating dealers.

I don't blame half of the NY dealers for leaving the program, they expected to get reimbursed in a timely manner and now they are in an unfavorable cash flow situation because they weren't. I bet a lot of dealers would not have participated in the program to begin with if they saw this coming.
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      08-20-2009, 06:01 PM   #17
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How about that part where it said the dealers have been reimbursed so far for about 2% of the clunker deals they have completed so far?

The dealers caused (and are causing) half the problem themselves by failing to void titles properly, and by pre-writing deals for weeks prior to the actual beginning of the program.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009...ign-Flaws.html

So while the Gov't definitely got caught behind, the dealers aren't blameless either.


But all this complaining is typical of righties who first complain that the Stimulus money isn't being spent fast enough, then complain that enough time wasn't spent planning when money IS spent quickly.....
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      08-20-2009, 11:22 PM   #18
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The dealers caused (and are causing) half the problem themselves by failing to void titles properly, and by pre-writing deals for weeks prior to the actual beginning of the program.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009...ign-Flaws.html

So while the Gov't definitely got caught behind, the dealers aren't blameless either.


But all this complaining is typical of righties who first complain that the Stimulus money isn't being spent fast enough, then complain that enough time wasn't spent planning when money IS spent quickly.....
Axelrod's playbook of deflection runs deep in you I see. The conservative argument has never been about the speed of stimulus, but rather the need for a pork-laden version of one that was sold as a 'Jobs NOW' package. So it is the democrat marketed timeline that is exposed for a falsehood.

As for cash for clunkers, the LibTards crack me up. This program shows exactly how putting money into the consumer does more for stabilizing and stimulating an industry than any straight gov't handout. The billions directly pumped into GM and Chrysler have done nothing to match how consumers with empowerment and choice make a larger difference.

Why not do healthcare the same way since Cash for Clunker is so successful? Put a tax credit into the middle and low class folks and they can buy all the insurance they need. Get rid of Medicare while your at it.
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      08-28-2009, 02:14 PM   #19
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So that $3,500 or $4,500 wasn't so free after all. What a joke. Here is $4,500 to trade in your clunker. Oh by the way now you have to pay us taxes on that $4,500. LOL!!!

http://www.keloland.com/NewsDetail6162.cfm?Id=0,89084

Quote:
The Cash For Clunkers program is adding to the activity at treasurers' offices all around South Dakota. First, people were asking for proof of ownership, so they could show they owned their vehicle for a full year, allowing them to cash it in. Now, they'll be returning to register their new vehicle. And when they do, new owners need to bring every bit of paperwork provided to them by their dealer.

"That means they need their title, their damage disclosure, their bill of sale and the dealers have 30 days to get that to them," Minnehaha County Treasurer Pam Nelson said.

But many of those cashing in on the clunkers program are surprised when they get to the treasurer's office windows. That's because the government's rebate of up to $4500 dollars for every clunker is taxable.

"They didn't realize that would be taxable. A lot of people don't realize that. So they're not happy and kind of surprised when they find that out," Nelson said
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      08-28-2009, 05:59 PM   #20
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So that $3,500 or $4,500 wasn't so free after all. What a joke. Here is $4,500 to trade in your clunker. Oh by the way now you have to pay us taxes on that $4,500. LOL!!!

http://www.keloland.com/NewsDetail6162.cfm?Id=0,89084

Have you NEVER used a rebate before????

Go to Circuit City and get a $45 dollar rebate on a $200 dollar monitor. You will get charged tax on that too.

Are you one of those idiots who will stand at the register and piss and moan about it, and hold up the line because you have no clue how a rebate works?

--------------------------------------------------------------

Why do you think that after getting $3500-$4500 off the price of a new car, that people should get YET ANOTHER freebie ON TOP of that? Why do you think they should get a partial sales tax rebate ON TOP of the $3500-$4500 of free cash they already got?

Why should the State be forced to give people a sales tax cut just because the Feds decide to rebate part of the sales price? The States are free to tax or not tax purchases as they wish. Those states who want to give car buyers yet another freebie on top of the freebie they already got are doing so, others aren't. It's called a State's Rights issue.

----------------------------------------------------------------

First you guys bitch and moan about tax dollars being diverted to buy cars, now you guys bitch and moan about tax dollars NOT being diverted from sales taxes! What a bunch of bitchers and moaners!
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      08-28-2009, 10:01 PM   #21
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      08-30-2009, 11:47 PM   #22
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First you guys bitch and moan about tax dollars being diverted to buy cars, now you guys bitch and moan about tax dollars NOT being diverted from sales taxes! What a bunch of bitchers and moaners!
The level of douchebagery is high in you today I see. Not every state taxes the 'Cash for Clunkers'. There is no federal tax on the program. You may be able to claim that state tax on your federal return (yet to be determined) and it amounts to roughly $250-280 depending on the state. (source)

The beef isn't the tax it's the lack of communication about it, or the lack of any organized rigor to the process for both consumers and dealers. The lack of consistency in application (some dealers stopped the program early since they were afraid the pool would run out and they'd be stuck with the bill).

Quote:
Some 200 dealerships belonging to the Greater New York Automobile Dealers Association said on Thursday that they were withdrawing from the program because the government had taken too long to reimburse them for Clunker rebates.
(source)
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