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      08-30-2009, 09:29 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by GatorBlue371 View Post
No not really.


It would take many many mods and blown warranties and blown engines for the Evo to ''spank'' a 911.
oh what about a z06. cheap and spank even the 997 turbo or gt3, lol. how is that for thought?

btw, the z06 is a fair comparison. the m3 seat 4 and weight much more, so it is always at a disadvantage. keep that in mind too when you compare car.
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      08-30-2009, 09:35 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by graider View Post
what TOOMANYCARS said is very true. it is the fact and it is the way it is. it looks like you you think whoever buy the gt3 need to have the skill to back it up. if that is true, many cayman owners and m3 owners here are poser as well because I'm sure 95% of them can't handle these car at the limit (myself included, maybe you too). we all should be driving accord right now if you are right. Get the point?
Yes, many ARE posers. Most can't even drive 6/10ths. It's either 6/10ths or 11/10ths - by accident, oops! But you know what? You can get whatever car you like for whatever reason you like. I'm fine with that, I really don't care what people do with their money. But then don't come and talk as if you know what you're talking about. If you want a car for status, fine with me. I could really care less as I've said. But don't come and start talking as if you have a clue. Don't put other capable cars down because you may not feel elite enough in them. Get MY point? Because someone may just pull up to you in a base 911 one day and show you up in your GT3. Heck, even in a non-S Cayman or Boxster. Or less.
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      08-30-2009, 09:50 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by urbo73 View Post
Yes, many ARE posers. Most can't even drive 6/10ths. It's either 6/10ths or 11/10ths - by accident, oops! But you know what? You can get whatever car you like for whatever reason you like. I'm fine with that, I really don't care what people do with their money. But then don't come and talk as if you know what you're talking about. If you want a car for status, fine with me. I could really care less as I've said. But don't come and start talking as if you have a clue. Don't put other capable cars down because you may not feel elite enough in them. Get MY point? Because someone may just pull up to you in a base 911 one day and show you up in your GT3. Heck, even in a non-S Cayman or Boxster. Or less.
i don't know why you feel so offensive and upset in this discussion. but let me ask you this, why are you buying the m3 instead of a 911 or cayman if you think they are so superior? I believe the cayman is even cheaper than the m3.
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      08-30-2009, 10:06 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by GatorBlue371 View Post
The Cayman is more than the M3 when you start adding ANY options.


Go price one out. I have trouble keeping mine below 80k
it doesn't matter really. my main point was that it strange he bought the m3 instead of the cayman. anyone who can afford m3 can afford the cayman s or regular 911 no problem. but many don't think they are worth it based on performance, price, and practicality. Majority don't like them due to the look as well.
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      08-30-2009, 11:19 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by graider View Post
i don't know why you feel so offensive and upset in this discussion. but let me ask you this, why are you buying the m3 instead of a 911 or cayman if you think they are so superior? I believe the cayman is even cheaper than the m3.
Read my post #44 in this thread. Seems people have a hard time either staying on topic or with reading comprehension It would be also nice if people would explain their choices as well, other than just say "m3 hands down" or "Porsche all the way"..And I'm not offended or upset. Maybe a bit frustrated for reasons mentioned above.
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      08-30-2009, 11:44 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
I wouldnt go as far as to say that anyone can afford a base 911 or Cayman S. cayman S' are upwards of 80K after options. Mine was a 75K sticker and after tax etc was about 80K. And a base 911, is usually around 85-90K after a few options if not more. plus the maintanance on a Porsche is not cheap, esp considering its free for 4 yrs/50k miles on the bmw.
As far as performance, the base 911 is faster than an m3 and is pretty much betters in all catagories and on the track. The cayman S pdk is right there as well.
What the m3 has going for it is the practicality, space, and price and maintanance.
m3 is about the same price or maybe 5k cheaper than the cayman after option but really at this price, 5k doesn't really matter in the buying decision. So it still stand, whoever can afford the m3 can afford the cayman s as well. And base 911 too if they are will to stretch another 10-15k. Problem is, mayjority including myself don't see that it worth the premium over the m3. It is not 15k faster on the track. That is not to mention all other aspects the m3 is way better.

as for you saying the cayman s is a faster track toy than the m3, then why this? for the car that is cheaper, look on par or even more aggressive, and seat 4, heavier by a few hundred pounds, and outperform the cayman s on this track (regards as the standard to test a car track capability) by a good 5 seconds. All of a sudden the m3 is the way better car.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring_lap_times

i noticed the m3 is right there with the r8 in the nur lap time as well, 1 sec slower than the r8. some mags even put the m3 in the same handling comparison to car as r8, gtr, etc. That speaks something about the engineer put into the m3.
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      08-31-2009, 02:09 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
Definately true about any sports car really. If you enjoy it, and it thrills you, what does it matter. That being said, theres a reason why Porsches are track monsters and have the most race wins in history. Because everything they touch is a winner, and the results of their race and street cars speak for themselves. Its nice to know that while most just drive to have fun, you can go out and outperform nearly every car you come across if you really wanted to.
Does that include the V6 Cayenne? So not everything they touch is a winner, and the results of it, well, horrifyingly slow and a completely worthless piece of crap.
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      08-31-2009, 04:39 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by TOOMANYCARS View Post
Maybe your culture is very different than mine, but for me, whatever I read or heard, I tend to keep my reactions to myself, or share it with my wife, but never say anything positive or negative about them, on the other hand, I don't make my decisions based on anyone's thoughts but my own. I'm not trying to rally people to my course, just wanted to express my opinions, that's all, because I never take these kind of websites too seriously. If people agree with you, good for you, great accomplishment, but I like to get that rewarding feeling in real life, in what I do for a living.
OK, I will address the above comments but first why I wrote what I did and it all centres around your original comments about the Cayman.

Quote:
I test drove the Cayman S when it was released few years ago, though it carried the Porsche badge, it didn't impress me. I had more fun driving my 05 EVO than driving it.
I have nothing wrong with someone not finding it enjoyable, each to their own but clearly here you had some pre-opinion about the car simply because it carried a Porsche badge and somehow should mimic the behaviour of a 911 which given it's basic layout would be an impossibility and it's the much better car because of this.

Quote:
Another statement I can't live with is that, if a 911 pulled up next to me, that driver must be thinking this poor Asian can't afford an 911, thus went for the lesser model. To me, driving a Porsche means something unique, so anything less than a GT3 won't do it for me. At the end, you are driving a Porsche, why settle for something that a grandma can handle?
This comment again shows that what other people think of you means much more than the actual experience of driving, which does come across as being very shallow, sorry if that is not how you meant it be one can only comment on what they read.

Could a grandma handle the Cayman?

Yeah, but she could equally handle an M3, an EVO and a shit load of other cars, including a GT3.

What you should have said is the basic layout of the Cayman S is less of a challenge to me personally and I much prefer my experiences to be more raw like that of the GT3.

Saying this would not have created the amount of comments and head scratching that myself and others wondered by your original comments. Hopefully this explains why I seem-ably gave you such a hard time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOOMANYCARS
I'm sorry if I didn't express myself clear enough, I wasn't using drag racing to defend myself when it comes to determine if a car were drivers' car, it's just one of the things I do and happen to be good at it because I have great mentors, great partners, great crew. Bottom line is, I test drove Cayman S back in 05 when it was released, didn't like it, test drove my friend's father's Cayman S for an hour on twisties and highway, still didn't like it, posted my thoughts about it here, end of story.
BTW my comments on the Cayman being a better car than the 911 was directed to Mikewarlover as well as the comment about being in-experienced because everyone knows that the Cayman and 997 share a vast amount of both technology and parts and that the same development team signed off on both models.
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      08-31-2009, 04:53 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by TOOMANYCARS View Post
Does that include the V6 Cayenne? So not everything they touch is a winner, and the results of it, well, horrifyingly slow and a completely worthless piece of crap.
The Cayenne is ugly as sin but it's hardly a piece of crap, even the V6 one. Heck I was driven around the Porsche's handling course at it's Silverstone Driving Centre in a diesel Cayenne while there was a number Cayman S on the track and with four on board we will had no problem staying in touch and even over-taking occasionally.

Yeah it's slow in acceleration but it still behaves like a Porsche, in other words, being a Porsche turned this big SUV into the best handler of it's type which is usually what happens when the Porsche badge ends up on the bonnet.
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      08-31-2009, 11:18 AM   #98
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m3 vs

To overtake a car on a track day does not prove anything as the car in front could have been driven by a pussy!
People talk about handling who have not got a clue what makes a car handle well in the first place.
The bmw 3 series range has always had a huge design advantage in its 50:50
weight distribution which makes it so much more balanced on road or track than any porsche can hope for.
I have owned and driven many porsche's and enjoyed them a lot and to get the best from them is a good challenge.But a car that allows itself to be driven fast with ease will always win a handling test and races too.
Afew years ago bmw entered the nurburgring 24 hour race two years running wit am m3 v8 the gtr and won so convincingly witn 500 bhp and a five speed manual box and was pitted against audi porsche etc etc and many of those with a lot more power and sequential gearboxes but the bmw's just blitzed all the competion due to the driveability of the car.
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      08-31-2009, 11:23 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by graider View Post
m3 is about the same price or maybe 5k cheaper than the cayman after option but really at this price, 5k doesn't really matter in the buying decision. So it still stand, whoever can afford the m3 can afford the cayman s as well. And base 911 too if they are will to stretch another 10-15k. Problem is, mayjority including myself don't see that it worth the premium over the m3. It is not 15k faster on the track. That is not to mention all other aspects the m3 is way better.
And therein lies the problem as I've said in all these M3 vs. Cayman threads. The only reason these cars are put up against each other is because they are in the same price range. But they are totally different cars with different dynamics, etc. A comparison makes 0 sense to me. If you like light cars, don't need space, etc., the Cayman is for you. If you prefer larger sedans, the M3 is for you. Comparing apples to oranges (even if they cost the same) never makes sense. Yet this is what people do. The thing is, once you drive both, you should know pretty much right away which you prefer. I don't see how it could ever be a dilemma for someone, since they ARE so different. We can sit here and debtate which has better steering, more leg room, is faster in the hands of a pro at X track, etc. But none of this should matter to a prospective buyer. A more valid comparison would be Exige vs. Cayman, Cayman S vs C2S, or M3 vs RS4/C63.
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      08-31-2009, 11:28 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griff View Post
To overtake a car on a track day does not prove anything as the car in front could have been driven by a pussy!
People talk about handling who have not got a clue what makes a car handle well in the first place.
And it looks like you'd be one of them from what you say below...

Quote:
The bmw 3 series range has always had a huge design advantage in its 50:50
weight distribution which makes it so much more balanced on road or track than any porsche can hope for.
I have owned and driven many porsche's and enjoyed them a lot and to get the best from them is a good challenge.But a car that allows itself to be driven fast with ease will always win a handling test and races too.
Afew years ago bmw entered the nurburgring 24 hour race two years running wit am m3 v8 the gtr and won so convincingly witn 500 bhp and a five speed manual box and was pitted against audi porsche etc etc and many of those with a lot more power and sequential gearboxes but the bmw's just blitzed all the competion due to the driveability of the car.
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      08-31-2009, 11:34 AM   #101
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m3 vs

I have a lot of friends who owned csl bmw's and sold them to own a 911 and have all now sold the 911's and gone back to csl's or new m3's as the handling and balance is far superior.None of these people said that the porsche gt3's or tubo's or 911's were crap as they offer a different type of driver owner experience.Some of these people have raced professionally and instructed too and driven everything from a fiat 500 to a veyron so they have no personal interest in giving bullshit opinions.
Because you own a car does not mean that it is best just that you prefer it better than others.
All of the cars discussed on this thread would give most people the thrill of their lives so i would say we are lucky to own any of them.
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      08-31-2009, 11:36 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
I wouldnt go as far as to say that anyone can afford a base 911 or Cayman S. cayman S' are upwards of 80K after options. Mine was a 75K sticker and after tax etc was about 80K. And a base 911, is usually around 85-90K after a few options if not more. plus the maintanance on a Porsche is not cheap, esp considering its free for 4 yrs/50k miles on the bmw.
As far as performance, the base 911 is faster than an m3 and is pretty much betters in all catagories and on the track. The cayman S pdk is right there as well.
What the m3 has going for it is the practicality, space, and price and maintanance.
Hmmm, I donīt know why prices would be different (on a relative basis) in the USA than in Mexico. An 6MT E92 M3 with full options costs $89,000 and the Cayman S 3.4 PKD is $82,000. Iīve found this relative difference to be consistent in the USA as well where I have acquired several vehicles, albeit never a Cayman but yes for other Porsches etc... I think is fair to say that if you can afford an M3 you can afford a Cayman.
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      08-31-2009, 11:43 AM   #103
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m3 vs

The zr6 is indeed a seriously quick piece of kit in terms of pace and now seems to handle well too.
It is built to the lowest build quality standards i have seen for a long time,the interior looks like it was built from a plastic piggy bank and the exterior can be pushed in by a 2 year old especially the rear end hence why it can be bought for much less than its european rivals.
do they still run on leafsprings?
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      08-31-2009, 11:50 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griff View Post
The zr6 is indeed a seriously quick piece of kit in terms of pace and now seems to handle well too.
It is built to the lowest build quality standards i have seen for a long time,the interior looks like it was built from a plastic piggy bank and the exterior can be pushed in by a 2 year old especially the rear end hence why it can be bought for much less than its european rivals.
do they still run on leafsprings?
All true and yes they still do run a leafspring set up with relatively simple large displacement engines, but, if pure performance is what you seek, the Corvette is a very light, very fast, rigid well balanced machine indeed. I personally donīt like it and would not acquire one but I do acknowledge that it is a fantastic performing sports car difficult to overcome by ANY supercar etc...
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      08-31-2009, 11:52 AM   #105
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There is a difference between quotes and facts.

Urbo 73 would you like to expand on what you disagree with in what you have highlighted and why?
As an owner of a new m3 i would have thought you would have appreciated the reasons i mentioned in my text!
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      08-31-2009, 11:57 AM   #106
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BMW M MEXICO have you modified your bmw?
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      08-31-2009, 12:01 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by griff View Post
BMW M MEXICO have you modified your bmw?
Yes I have, to the extent that it is probably a different car now for sure with greatly improved dynamics and performance.
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      08-31-2009, 12:07 PM   #108
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What have you done and what sorts of cost was involved over there as most mods over here are ridiculously expensive.Mine is lowered with a remap air filter remus exhaust.no engine mods though.ive got some brembo 8 pot front and four pot rear brakes coming with 380 mm discs on the front.then just going to put some oz's on so i can put some cup sport tyres on and maybe some recarro cs front seats
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      08-31-2009, 12:11 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griff View Post
What have you done and what sorts of cost was involved over there as most mods over here are ridiculously expensive.Mine is lowered with a remap air filter remus exhaust.no engine mods though.ive got some brembo 8 pot front and four pot rear brakes coming with 380 mm discs on the front.then just going to put some oz's on so i can put some cup sport tyres on and maybe some recarro cs front seats
Well, I sent it up to the LA (Lake Forrest) area with Racing Dynamics. You donīt wanna know the cost!! Hahahaha!! Take a look at this link that will give you a good idea of what I am talking about, there are updated pics all through to the end of the thread so please be a bit patient. http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288953
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      08-31-2009, 12:18 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
OK, I will address the above comments but first why I wrote what I did and it all centres around your original comments about the Cayman.



I have nothing wrong with someone not finding it enjoyable, each to their own but clearly here you had some pre-opinion about the car simply because it carried a Porsche badge and somehow should mimic the behaviour of a 911 which given it's basic layout would be an impossibility and it's the much better car because of this.



This comment again shows that what other people think of you means much more than the actual experience of driving, which does come across as being very shallow, sorry if that is not how you meant it be one can only comment on what they read.

Could a grandma handle the Cayman?

Yeah, but she could equally handle an M3, an EVO and a shit load of other cars, including a GT3.

What you should have said is the basic layout of the Cayman S is less of a challenge to me personally and I much prefer my experiences to be more raw like that of the GT3.

Saying this would not have created the amount of comments and head scratching that myself and others wondered by your original comments. Hopefully this explains why I seem-ably gave you such a hard time.



BTW my comments on the Cayman being a better car than the 911 was directed to Mikewarlover as well as the comment about being in-experienced because everyone knows that the Cayman and 997 share a vast amount of both technology and parts and that the same development team signed off on both models.
I don't agree with you on what he should say or shouldn't say. atleast the man is honest and brave enough to express his feeling. I'm not sure why some of you jumped on him after he merely state the fact. the fact of the matter is almost all purchase decision based on look and how you feel inside the car first. If this is not true, then we all can drive some thing with similar performance for a lot less and save the extra money for investment. We like the cayman, 911, m3, etc not because we can't find similar performance for less, but because we like the look, the build quality, the prestige, how people think of you when you in it, the badge, etc.... I have to say anyone who say otherwise is totally lying.

I'm not saying handling/performance is not important, but they are just a tiny aspect of any car purchase decision.
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