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      08-05-2009, 12:36 PM   #45
Levi
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At least Porsche will be Porsche forever. Porsche, a brand that has kept loyal to its traditions since its inception.
Cayenne, Cayenne Diesel, Cayenne Hybride, Panamera, you call this loyal to it's traditions? Turbo engines as in the Cayenne Turbo, 911 Turbo and GT2, you call this loyal? And it is not all, wait until Porsche builds it's entry level car based on the Golf VI or the Sirocco, it may even be FWD. But in one way you are right, the 911 is very loyal to it's design, it hasn't changed since the first and is not ready to change.

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A BMW will still remain a BMW.
I am sur of that. BMW will stay more BMW than Porsche will stay Porsche. And yet Porsche now belongs to VW so it is even worse.
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      08-05-2009, 12:45 PM   #46
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looks like they hired mazda3 designers


i do however believe bmw will reinvent the 3 series, because it will get a bigger body like the audi a4 and with the intro of the one series.. i expect more from a 3.... well maybe not reinvent but i expect a lot more differences such as how the e60 was to the e39... this e90 is not that far off from the e46 in so many ways
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      08-05-2009, 01:00 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by d3l0n View Post
looks like they hired mazda3 designers
You mean the Autocar magazine that photoshopped this as free interpretation of the interview... oh wait...
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      08-05-2009, 01:21 PM   #48
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Now that there is a 1 series BMW for those looking for a smaller car it makes some sense for the 3 to get a bit bigger to keep up with the new A4 in size.

Some extra rear seat room would be welcome... as my kids are taller teenagers now and I prefer the ride and price point of the 3 to the 5.
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      08-05-2009, 01:32 PM   #49
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the new mazda's have those stupid looking grins for a grill as well. nothing could be more unattractive than that look.
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      08-05-2009, 01:38 PM   #50
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Looks like a Chrysler Sebring...LOL

BMWs are not supposed to be the run of the mill economy car. BMWs are supposed to be geared to a different market....a market that appreciates luxury, power and a brand that has heritage. Maybe they should create another brand under the BMW umbrella that focuses on such cars (i.e., Scion and Toyota). If I wanted an electric car, I'll get a FKNG Prius!

What's next? Ditching the ///M for an ///E? Gimme a break!

-SZ
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      08-05-2009, 01:45 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
First of all the impression is from Autocar's on artists. and not representive of BMW.

Secondly the car will not be launched next year because we have not even commenced full prototype testing and that takes two years especially now with our indepth development and testing programme.

And thirdly BMW chose to go the direction because our home market in Europe will be introducing stricter legislation further down the line.
In Europe BMW sell more 3er than any other country. The 3er makes up not only larger consumer sales but government fleets , Police Fleets and business fleets. all use the BMW 320d. Not significant to the USA but BMW has other purposes outside of the USA that are more relevant to Europeans.

BMW has not lost it's focus or it's direction. It is a company that is adapting to the times and whilst the progressive increase with Efficient Dynamics being spread throughout the BMW Portfolio including the M Division.
A BMW will still remain a BMW.


I am sorry but who are you? The new F20 BMW 1er prototypes are currently testing prototype 3 cylinder engines.
Good to hear from you, Scott...I agree with what you are saying, but I just feel like there is way too much Efficient Dynamics stuff going on. The 3er might sell the most in Europe, but the US is BMW's biggest market. US customers aren't going to look favorably upon a 3-cylinder engine, FI or not. Its just not the 3-series character IMO.

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Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Cayenne, Cayenne Diesel, Cayenne Hybride, Panamera, you call this loyal to it's traditions? Turbo engines as in the Cayenne Turbo, 911 Turbo and GT2, you call this loyal? And it is not all, wait until Porsche builds it's entry level car based on the Golf VI or the Sirocco, it may even be FWD. But in one way you are right, the 911 is very loyal to it's design, it hasn't changed since the first and is not ready to change.



I am sur of that. BMW will stay more BMW than Porsche will stay Porsche. And yet Porsche now belongs to VW so it is even worse.
+1, and thank you for calling that guy out.

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Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO View Post
Looks like a Chrysler Sebring...LOL

BMWs are not supposed to be the run of the mill economy car. BMWs are supposed to be geared to a different market....a market that appreciates luxury, power and a brand that has heritage. Maybe they should create another brand under the BMW umbrella that focuses on such cars (i.e., Scion and Toyota). If I wanted an electric car, I'll get a FKNG Prius!

What's next? Ditching the ///M for an ///E? Gimme a break!

-SZ
That's where people at BMW are missing the point...they are doing what everybody else is doing. BMW is supposed to be special. They're not supposed to be the ones that are taking the run of the mill approach. And that is how I feel about them lately with the withdrawal from F1, M models of the X5 and X6, etc. The brand is becoming diluted.

I read about the MINI E line...not a bad idea. I have also heard that BMW is planning another sub-brand of cars. i really think they should be careful about what gets the BMW roundel and what doesn't. Pretty soon they'll be using efficient dynamics on M cars!
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      08-05-2009, 02:02 PM   #52
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It seems like every time a possible change is in the works everyone objects and says it will look hideous. Sometimes I question whether this hideousness is due to its aesthetics, or because it will make the posters car look older and less valuable.
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      08-05-2009, 02:18 PM   #53
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Speculation. I won't make a judgement 'til it is in production.
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      08-05-2009, 02:27 PM   #54
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I know, it is sad. At least Porsche will be Porsche forever. And even though I was always more in love with BMW than Porsche, I may have to fall in love with a brand that has kept loyal to its traditions since its inception. Porsche 911 here I come!!
porsche has a 4-door (o.k. 5 door) family hatch now.
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      08-05-2009, 02:32 PM   #55
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I'm amazed by the level of intellect on the post...

This is just an article by a car magazine. and the picture is just a drawing.

That aside, I think BMW has clearly seen the writings on the wall about future automotive trends. Sustainability and efficiency will be key to an auto company. The EU market has and will have significantly more regulations than the U.S. market, and BMW, as well as MB etc. will have to adapt, and even stay ahead of the curve.

The recent financial crisis, and the troubles by the automakers, including the mighty Toyota, show you how vulnerable the automakers are. Porsche will be a part of VW group. For BMW to remain independent, they have to lead. Powerful cars will not go away from BMW, but the majority will be more efficient and hopefully still fun to drive (think, think, E30M3...)
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      08-05-2009, 02:46 PM   #56
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i actually like it
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      08-05-2009, 02:49 PM   #57
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218dhb: also i love how 1 series customers are on these boards talking smack on how BMW will move backwards. i can see a 7 series owner looking down at the reporting but how the hell do 1 series customers? that's the cheapest quality and make in the company.


Reasoning and analytical skills fail! Did you ever pause to think that some 1 series owners are concurrent or were previous 3 series owners, thus they are interested in the next generation 3 series? Also, your argument rests on the assumption that only people who pay more should have the right to complain about something-- I guess in your myopic world, only people who pay more in taxes will have the right to complain about the government. Furthermore, what is cheap about the 1 series? My loaded 1 series costs the same or more than some 3 series, so what makes it cheap, Mr. Rich Man who drives a Z4? Just because I own a 1 series doesn't mean I can't comment on the direction of BMW's future product line, GTFOH.
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      08-05-2009, 03:16 PM   #58
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2011 3 series details..

Engine:
The 2011 3-series should get the option of turbocharged three-cylinder petrol and diesel engines. In effect half of one of the new-generation six-cylinder units, a 1.5-litre, three-pot diesel should be good for 150bhp and 220lb ft of torque.
The petrol version should deliver 150bhp and 170lb ft but will be cheaper to build because it won’t need the emissions kit demanded of a Euro 6-compliant diesel engine.
These units should be less expensive to make than a four-pot, as well as offering unparalleled weight distribution, since they will sit virtually in the rear of the engine bay. The 2016 engines may have electric motors to spin the turbochargers up to operating speed.

Drag reduction:
Insiders say BMW cannot — as a premium car maker — contemplate using ‘pure’ aerodynamic solutions for the car’s upper body. It wants enough flexibility to style the car and knows that faired-in wheels, for example, would not appeal to most buyers.
BMW engineers say about 40 per cent of overall air resistance comes from the proportions and shape of the vehicle. So it’s the remaining 60 per cent that it will concentrate on reducing.
Broken down, 30 per cent of drag is attributed to the wheels and wheel arches, 20 per cent to the underfloor shape and 10 per cent to the flow of the cooling air around the brakes and engine bay.

Air curtain:
The big aerodynamic step forward for the 2011 3-series is the ‘Air Curtain’. This uses narrow, upright intakes in the lower bumper which channel air through the bumper and out of a slot inside the front of the wheel well.
As it exits the wheel well, this high-speed airflow runs across the face of the wheel, creating what is in effect a ‘curtain’ over the wheel face.
Smoothing the turbulent flow across this part of the car helps reduce the Cd of a 5-series from 0.28 to 0.27.

Running gear:
BMW’s front-engined, rear-drive layout remains, but changes will be needed if the 3-series is to “remain relevant” for the 10 years it will be on sale.
To that end, provision has to be made for some kind of electric hybrid assist on the rear axle (which could be combined with the differential) and space needs to be found for the battery pack and electronic control units.
Engineers will also be challenged by the lightweight three-cylinder engines, which will demand very specific suspension settings.

Electrical architecture:
The 2011 3-series will be fully integrated with the internet (the 5-series GT will be the first BMW to be launched with the system).
Although the move will open the way for the car to receive a huge amount of information (including from local traffic management systems), for the 2016 model the basic electrical architecture will be transformed to take into account new systems such as the low-energy lighting, electric engine ancillaries and various types of hybrid power assistance.

Climate control:
The 2016 3-series could be the first BMW to be fitted with a new type of heating system. Current systems use twice the power needed to heat a 250m2 room, so the future version is expected to reclaim heat from the exhaust system.
A heat store is also possible. An insider said it will use far less power because the cabin will be “de-humidified”. Air-con, he said, overcools to prevent condensation from forming inside the car.

Eight-speed auto:
BMW is betting on its new eight-speed automatic transmission being more widely adopted in the future. Rather than using dual-clutch automated manual gearboxes (which will be reserved for performance models), BMW thinks a super-efficient auto will be a hit with premium buyers.
It will sell 150,000 six-cylinder diesel autos this year. The current version is eight per cent more efficient than the previous six-speed auto. By 2011 this transmission will also have been fitted with automatic stop-start.
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      08-05-2009, 03:17 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by AutoCar View Post
BMW is poised to completely reinvent the 3-series family for the low-carbon age.

Talking exclusively to Autocar, a senior BMW source revealed that a ground-up rethink of the company's biggest-selling model will ensure that the next-generation 3-series will "remain relevant even when it goes off sale in 12 years' time".

The new 3-series is expected to make its public debut at the 2011 Paris motor show. In its first incarnation, the new model is expected to offer class-leading aerodynamics, with a Cd figure of 0.24, as well as pioneering the use of three-cylinder engines in premium vehicles.
The 3-series is part of a new BMW strategy in which 'premium' is defined in terms of environmental compatibility. It is this strategy that has prompted BMW to pull out of Formula One from the end of this year.

The reinvention will step up a gear in 2016 when the 3-series undergoes a mid-life revamp. This is expected to represent the biggest technological step-change in car design for decades.
Sources say much of the underskin technology - such as the climate control system - will be completely re-engineered. Many of today's in-car systems have in principle remained unchanged for decades.

BMW engineers are already years into programmes that will extend the reach of the company's successful Efficient Dynamics fuel-saving tech to make all aspects of the 3-series - not just the engines - as energy-efficient as possible.

To this end, BMW has fitted thousands of existing customers' cars with sophisticated black boxes that record all aspects of their use, helping engineers to plan the shape of future models.

For example, the research shows that of all BMW's models, the 320d is driven the fastest and over the greatest distances by owners. This information will directly influence work on replacements for the 320d to optimise fuel efficiency in the light of this model's particular duty cycle.

Much of this engineering work is also aimed at the future 'electrification' of the car.

BMW's product planners expect most future car families - especially those in the premium sector - to come in both hybrid and fully electric forms.

This means the design of the car's electrical architecture and ancillaries will have to be completely rethought to deal with being powered purely by battery. Insiders say headlamps, for example, will have to become far more energy-efficient.
.

"Some details are interesting, but at the same time, remember that many of them could be simple rumors or assumptions. More accurate details will start to be revealed next year as the first full test mules will hit the streets."
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      08-05-2009, 03:19 PM   #60
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Anyone think we will see an engine with comparable performance to that of the 335i in the next gen 3 series, not in the form of an M-series?
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      08-05-2009, 03:23 PM   #61
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Anyone think we will see an engine with comparable performance to that of the 335i in the next gen 3 series, not in the form of an M-series?
no doubt. If not better. This is all info for the UK so Im sure there is more to come for the US.
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      08-05-2009, 03:26 PM   #62
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Good and Bad

I am taking all of these reports with a grain of salt.

It makes perfect sense for the next 3-series to be more aerodynamic, have more efficient lighting, heating, etc. I am sure it will still handle very well.

But I won't be buying any 3 cylinder car anytime soon. And I doubt most North American customers would either. Remember, BMW makes a number of smaller engines that never make it across the ocean. When was the last time you saw a 320d?!? Whatever the 2 largest, most powerful engines are, those will end up in Canada and the US.

I just hope they keep the twin-turbo 6 around as an option. Now that I am "dinanized" I am spoiled.

Or maybe I'll be looking at a G37 in 2013-14?
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      08-05-2009, 03:27 PM   #63
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It is becoming clear from this and the pull away from F1 that the next gen 3 and probably all BMW's to come may steer away from being a driver's car and ultimate driving machine, and gravitate more and more into becoming luxury Prius' ...
Too bad, hopefully Porsche does not go the same way, it seems they would be the only mainstream drivers' car left on the market
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      08-05-2009, 03:37 PM   #64
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I thought this was fake until I read it on autoblog. I'm still very suspicious of the 3-cyl.
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      08-05-2009, 04:48 PM   #65
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I just think we should not base anything just yet, to me this sounds bullshit and a total lie... And the part that they will stop selling 3 series what a lie, after so many years they want to stop selling 3s... might as well go bankrupt bmw..
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      08-05-2009, 04:58 PM   #66
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Guess we can forgot about the DCT being offered in the 335i in the US, as it appears BMW is working on an 8 speed auto (ala Lexus) for the next 3 series. Supposedly they say it's 8% more efficient than the current 6 speed auto.
Should offer slightly better performance too, but at the cost of having too many gears IMHO.
6 seems to be enough, or if you REALLY need to pad the fuel efficiency for the upcoming regulations, make it a 7 speed with the 7th gear a super tall cruising gear only.

BTW, I like the looks of that rendering. The "smile" might be a bit much, and just need to be toned down a bit.
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