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      07-31-2009, 01:10 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
OK lets talk seriously if BMW Brought out a supercar rival to the Audi R8 how many can actually afford it? And not by Lease.
because when were were evaluating the strategy for a ltd run on the BMW M1Hommage once we seperated demand from the dreamers there was no case for a business strategy.

Efficient Dynamics is our strategy and so is Project-i , BMW are the current pioneers in lowering it's emissions in it's products and with it's new developments aim to be the leaders in the future.
Efficient Dynamics is about the best of both worlds - The best drivers car in it's segment with class leading efficiency.
OK, then why has the r8 sold so well? And let's say you didnt make that much money making the BMW supercar, you would definitively make money by making the brand more desirable and that way you will certainly sell more models such as the 3 and 5 series. The truth of the matter is that building the supercar can do no harm!!! Give us something for those of us who have glorified and bought BMW's all our lives to be proud of. Il never forget growing up wanting an M, I wanted one so bad and I couldnt have it, but now that I can, I bought it, there is no car in the BMW range that I really want to have, however I really want an F430 scuderia, so BMW should make a car to rival those and aquire that market share. BMW has one of the highest owner loyalties out there, but they are slowly losing it.
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      07-31-2009, 01:14 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Stankia View Post
It sounds good and all but how many here bought their M3's or even regular 3ers because of "Efficient Dynamics"? No one cares about it except BMW and a few hippies, nice try tho. BMW should focus on what people want and not just throw random cars on the market and hope that people will buy them just because it's a BMW.

And the Supercar thing, yes it might not be profitable, but my guess is cars like the R8 were not intended for profit. The R8 is like a huge ad campaign for Audi, look at how many movies the R8 was featured and apparently it works, the last time I checked A4's were outselling the 3 series in Germany.
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      08-01-2009, 03:21 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by BMWI6 View Post
OK, then why has the r8 sold so well? And let's say you didnt make that much money making the BMW supercar, you would definitively make money by making the brand more desirable and that way you will certainly sell more models such as the 3 and 5 series. The truth of the matter is that building the supercar can do no harm!!! Give us something for those of us who have glorified and bought BMW's all our lives to be proud of. Il never forget growing up wanting an M, I wanted one so bad and I couldnt have it, but now that I can, I bought it, there is no car in the BMW range that I really want to have, however I really want an F430 scuderia, so BMW should make a car to rival those and aquire that market share. BMW has one of the highest owner loyalties out there, but they are slowly losing it.
I understand the strategy of making "different" sportscar with ED and so on. Don't follow steps other brands have walked. Ok. But I can't imagine a person who buys an electric/hybrid sportscar if there are ordinary ones available. I want to feel and hear the car, not just drive it. I want to smell gas, hot brakes and power. Can electric car provide that? Absolutely not!

Is it really so expensive to develop mid-engine car for speed junkies? What I can buy now when I have M3 and it's the fastest on track BMW can offer? Nothing. Quite sad since I'd like to bring my money to BMW dealer who could sell me a mid-engine missile loaded with BMW's state-of-the-art technology. Audi & MB could serve me, but no BMW :-(

It was Aug 1986 when I read for the first time about BMW M3 thinking that some day I'll drive that car. By then I had a bicycle and not much more. 10 years later I got my driving licence, but it was 21st century when I was able to buy the first own car, VW. Then traded to BMW and now I have M3 and E60 (+ other brands like Mini...). So, rather than just staring at quarter results of the company, brand building have to be considered as a 10-20-30 year investment. And in that sector mid-engine BMW supercar is THE project to see come true.
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      08-02-2009, 02:33 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Pitkis View Post
I understand the strategy of making "different" sportscar with ED and so on. Don't follow steps other brands have walked. Ok. But I can't imagine a person who buys an electric/hybrid sportscar if there are ordinary ones available. I want to feel and hear the car, not just drive it. I want to smell gas, hot brakes and power. Can electric car provide that? Absolutely not!
Who has talked anything about BMW making a full electric sportcar where you can't smell gas? And even if they would produce one, you seem to have your options ready if you want to smell gas, hot brakes and power, so why whine about it?

I personally think that this is a good thing if BMW can use ED technology in their sportcars. For God's sake, it's there to make it better, not worse! Even Ferrari is working with hybrid car and they are the ultimate sportcar manufacturer. Really can't see anything bad if BMW tries to look at the future rather than keeping with the old technology. I am sure that you would trade in your F430 without problems even if the new Ferrari would have some hybrid technology in it?

The R8 rival train has passed long time ago, so why make a M1 with the old V10 for example... if they are ever going to make it, isn't it better for all of us if they make it properly with the newest technology available?

And yes... making a R8 rival would cost a fortune for BMW. They can't just walk to Lambo to loan some parts as Audi did.
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      08-02-2009, 05:41 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Antinontoxic View Post
Who has talked anything about BMW making a full electric sportcar where you can't smell gas? And even if they would produce one, you seem to have your options ready if you want to smell gas, hot brakes and power, so why whine about it?

I personally think that this is a good thing if BMW can use ED technology in their sportcars. For God's sake, it's there to make it better, not worse! Even Ferrari is working with hybrid car and they are the ultimate sportcar manufacturer. Really can't see anything bad if BMW tries to look at the future rather than keeping with the old technology. I am sure that you would trade in your F430 without problems even if the new Ferrari would have some hybrid technology in it?

The R8 rival train has passed long time ago, so why make a M1 with the old V10 for example... if they are ever going to make it, isn't it better for all of us if they make it properly with the newest technology available?

And yes... making a R8 rival would cost a fortune for BMW. They can't just walk to Lambo to loan some parts as Audi did.
I don't blame BMW only, there are MB and Audi also working with more or less electric sportcar. And, like you said, perhaps Ferrari messing with hybrids too. Still, who wants to buy them if "real" sportcars are available? ED is fine, nothing to complain. And it's nice to see M-cars have that technology used. But if in future BMW M-models will have hybrid/electric powertrains...well...I see very little sense in it. Even GT cars are the different story, but if you start to diminish performance & feel of the sportcar in order to lower emissions, you soon need no sportcar product line at all.

Anyway, I'll be in Frankfurt on 15.9.09 08.30 am to see what's up. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows. AMS revealed that this new concept car will have CO2 emissions less than 100g/km. Very interesting.
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      08-02-2009, 07:09 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by PM3 View Post
All true except your last sentence....remember when the m1 hommage was introduced? chief designer van hoidonk told if bmw wanted, it had the tech and knowhow to build one...
It is one thing to have the tech and knowhow and another to have existing car with this technology. I have said it before here and I will say it again... as I am working for BMW, I know that it takes approx. 3 years to mate existing engine to existing body. It is a whole another story when you are making a supercar.

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Originally Posted by Pitkis View Post
I don't blame BMW only, there are MB and Audi also working with more or less electric sportcar. And, like you said, perhaps Ferrari messing with hybrids too. Still, who wants to buy them if "real" sportcars are available? ED is fine, nothing to complain. And it's nice to see M-cars have that technology used. But if in future BMW M-models will have hybrid/electric powertrains...well...I see very little sense in it. Even GT cars are the different story, but if you start to diminish performance & feel of the sportcar in order to lower emissions, you soon need no sportcar product line at all.
I think BMW is long way from producing M hybrid. Only this year they are rolling out their first hybrids so I don't think the next hybrid will be a M-model. I wouldn't understand that either... maybe in 10 years, but not yet.

When I refer to ED technology, I think for example KERS which could be something useful in whichever model. And yes, I genuinely think that people would buy hybrid supercars/sportcars if the technology used makes them better than ordinary sportcars.

World changes and I think it is a good thing if BMW changes with it... even if it means hybrid/electric sportcars.
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      08-02-2009, 07:23 AM   #51
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I think BMW is long way from producing M hybrid. Only this year they are rolling out their first hybrids so I don't think the next hybrid will be a M-model. I wouldn't understand that either... maybe in 10 years, but not yet.
10 years is a loooong time. Look at MB's development:
http://www.worldcarfans.com/10907162...electric-drive

If BMW wants to bring us electric sportcar, the drivetrain have to be right now under development. Otherwise MB and Audi will share (IMO nearly non-existent) e-sportcar-market together years before BMW comes around.
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      08-02-2009, 02:07 PM   #52
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Again true. I am no engeneer but i am sure its not that linear...everybody nows audi borrowed heaviely from lambo but i am sure it still toke some time to build the thing...yes they might have saved a year of research and a few million dollars along the ride but life isnt easy you know...if bmw really wants to be at the forefront of luxury premium cars - and call itself the sporty alternative among an increasing competition - 15 years ago audi woudnt even have been considered premium in the usa - it as to spend time and money!! And to be honest, i just dont think the current bmw board wants to carry on beeing "the ultimate driving machine"...but the most profitable and most efficient..fair game but the reason why I and many other customers bought my 7 over an s-class - better rated on motoring magazines btw- was not only because of my almost 3 decades of brand loyalty but also because i enjoyed driving it...
I don't understand why small builders like Pagani, McLaren, Bugatti (before VW came in) and Gumbert were able to design championship-level supercars with small resources, but automotive giant like BMW says it's impossible? Series production is different story, but we still speak about "hundreds" as an maximum annual production number of this M1-supercar. So, pretty high level of custom work could be used and no need for new factory..?

Think about Gumbert for example. The development of Apollo didn't take 10 years and how many persons are employed there? Couple of dozens. And the car is absolute performance pinnacle. Yes, expensive too, but who said BMW supercar should be cheap?

There should be some medium-level between R8 and Apollo where BMW M1 might be positioned what comes to production numbers and level of customisation. The project could bring in some money, but of course would not be relevant to whole BMW turnover. What comes to the brand, the value in marketing would be well worth starting the project!

:-)
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