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      02-12-2014, 02:03 PM   #1
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Question Seats or Suspension First?

So I've been thinking (it hurts a little to think, but I'll survive). I can only do one at a time, then wait, and do the other. I need to justify all expenses, and it's not a free for all. For those that have done both. Which should I do first? They will both help, but as far as bang for the buck, which is preferable at this stage?

Thinking for seats:

OMP WRC with Sliding mounts
or
Recaro equivalent

For Suspension:

KW CS or JRZ RS1

Not asking which to choose, just which one I would benefit more at first. The decision on model vs brand, will need to do a bit more research.

Thanks for looking and/or giving feedback.
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      02-12-2014, 02:27 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yandy View Post
So I've been thinking (it hurts a little to think, but I'll survive). I can only do one at a time, then wait, and do the other. I need to justify all expenses, and it's not a free for all. For those that have done both. Which should I do first? They will both help, but as far as bang for the buck, which is preferable at this stage?

Thinking for seats:

OMP WRC with Sliding mounts
or
Recaro equivalent

For Suspension:

KW CS or JRZ RS1

Not asking which to choose, just which one I would benefit more at first. The decision on model vs brand, will need to do a bit more research.

Thanks for looking and/or giving feedback.
I'd say suspension first. With seats, you'll also need a roll bar or harness bar along with the harness to get the most of it.
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      02-12-2014, 02:27 PM   #3
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Do you already have a cage and harnesses? I wouldn't do seats until you have the funds to put in a cage and purchases harnesses; it all works as a system.
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      02-12-2014, 02:27 PM   #4
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Every instructor I've talked to has said that seats will result in much more improvement (and thus speed) than suspension because they give the driver so much more accurate information, fwiw. But yes, you would need a harness setup as well for maximum effect.

In terms of suspension though, the research I've done suggests that the RS1 is the preferred setup, including from people who previously had the KW CS setup. But the RS1 also by itself isn't a complete kit since it doesn't come with springs, so you'd have to choose those separately.
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      02-12-2014, 02:28 PM   #5
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suspension, seats were my last mod i did.
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      02-12-2014, 02:32 PM   #6
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If you are planning to do a lot of track days, do seats. At the track, I don't like that I have to brace my whole body with the steering wheel and the door panel when cornering to keep myself from falling out of the seat. The factory seats have almost no bolstering and support.
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      02-12-2014, 02:38 PM   #7
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What about suspension and the Schroth Quick-Fit harnesses? The quick-fits do a great job of bracing you in the seat. Or if those aren't OK with your local club I got very similar results from the CG-Lock.
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      02-12-2014, 03:44 PM   #8
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Suspension. Proper dampers make the car much better to drive on track. I wouldn't mess with seats until it is a rare street car. Racing buckets suck driving to work. Can't go wrong with either suspension choice you listed (I have and like KW CS, JRZ RS1 are good too).
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      02-12-2014, 03:44 PM   #9
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I think the RS1 is too soft. I don't know a ton about them but I know the Ohlins R&T is a bit soft for serious tracking. Id go KW CS
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      02-12-2014, 03:44 PM   #10
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I'd say you notice the biggest difference with seats. Being secured in a proper seating position makes a huge difference.

I'm using a CG lock with the stock seats and it helps a lot over the stock setup. Just a suggestion if you decide to keep your stock seats.
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      02-12-2014, 03:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
If you are planning to do a lot of track days, do seats. At the track, I don't like that I have to brace my whole body with the steering wheel and the door panel when cornering to keep myself from falling out of the seat. The factory seats have almost no bolstering and support.
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      02-12-2014, 04:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29 View Post
I'd say suspension first. With seats, you'll also need a roll bar or harness bar along with the harness to get the most of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmw16 View Post
Do you already have a cage and harnesses? I wouldn't do seats until you have the funds to put in a cage and purchases harnesses; it all works as a system.
I currently have a schroth quick-fit pro, which can be upgraded to 5 or 6 point easily. So getting seats and adding the at least the 5 point to that should be simple. Wouldn't need a harness bar for that at all, since they already secure on the stock parts, but I could be very wrong.

Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Every instructor I've talked to has said that seats will result in much more improvement (and thus speed) than suspension because they give the driver so much more accurate information, fwiw. But yes, you would need a harness setup as well for maximum effect.

In terms of suspension though, the research I've done suggests that the RS1 is the preferred setup, including from people who previously had the KW CS setup. But the RS1 also by itself isn't a complete kit since it doesn't come with springs, so you'd have to choose those separately.
This is what I'm looking for in seats,bit more of feel what the car is doing since I wouldn't be flying around all over the place.

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Originally Posted by mkPOTO View Post
suspension, seats were my last mod i did.
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
If you are planning to do a lot of track days, do seats. At the track, I don't like that I have to brace my whole body with the steering wheel and the door panel when cornering to keep myself from falling out of the seat. The factory seats have almost no bolstering and support.
This +1, even with the quickfit it's just not enough I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmw16 View Post
What about suspension and the Schroth Quick-Fit harnesses? The quick-fits do a great job of bracing you in the seat. Or if those aren't OK with your local club I got very similar results from the CG-Lock.
Even with the quick-fit pro, my upper body is secure enough, but my lower body, legs are still bracing on the door or in the center console depending on turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
Suspension. Proper dampers make the car much better to drive on track. I wouldn't mess with seats until it is a rare street car. Racing buckets suck driving to work. Can't go wrong with either suspension choice you listed (I have and like KW CS, JRZ RS1 are good too).
I work from home most of the time, while it is my "daily" I don't have long commutes, even going to the office is a mere 7 miles away, and when we do have long drives, there's another car for that. The longest drives I take are to and from the track, such as Sebring 3 hours, and PBIR 2 hours (no trailer yet).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKosherStogie View Post
I think the RS1 is too soft. I don't know a ton about them but I know the Ohlins R&T is a bit soft for serious tracking. Id go KW CS
Thanks for the input.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 03///m3 View Post
I'd say you notice the biggest difference with seats. Being secured in a proper seating position makes a huge difference.

I'm using a CG lock with the stock seats and it helps a lot over the stock setup. Just a suggestion if you decide to keep your stock seats.
I've heard this allot, but have not experienced it yet.


---

Thanks for all the input, keep them coming
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Last edited by yandy; 02-12-2014 at 04:29 PM.
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      02-12-2014, 08:23 PM   #13
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Even without the DD/driving to work thing being an issue I'd say suspension. The car is just better to drive with CS. It has less body roll, gets much better corner exit grip etc. My favorite two mods on my car are bbk and KW CS (admittedly probably in that order).

Seats benefit you more when you take the time (and $) to put in a roll bar and harnesses. The race seats I had in my Cayman S years ago were silly with the 3 pt belts, and uncomfortable for going around town with the 6 pt. My 2c.
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      02-12-2014, 08:45 PM   #14
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+1 on suspension (and, JRZ).

As for seats, I still use the OEM seat but do the slide-the-seat-back,lock-the-seatbelt,hold-seatbelt-tension-while-cam's-locked,slide-the-seat-forward trick, and I'm locked in tight in my OEM seat, and can feel the car sliding immediately and am able to correct accordingly because my body is still sitting upright & close to the steering wheel.
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      02-12-2014, 09:10 PM   #15
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Seats with stock belts.

Stock suspension is pretty darn good and seats will do a lot to improve your driving. Now if you're an advanced driver and sliding around in factory seats is not distracting, you probably wouldn't be asking this question and would be doing the suspension anyway.

I don't believe in the whole "you MUST USE harnesses and harness bars when you use a racing seat" mentality. Porsche uses race seats in their GT3/GT2/Carrera GT cars, Honda used race seats in their NSX-R, and all of these cars run standard 3pt belts without roll bars & harnesses. If you have a harness, you need a roll bar, but those have nothing to do with your seats.

IMO I really like the Recaro Pole Position seats. The leather quality and design fits well in a BMW, has great side bolsters, but not stupid high bolsters (like some true racing seats) which greatly hurts it's streetability.


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      02-12-2014, 09:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
Even without the DD/driving to work thing being an issue I'd say suspension. The car is just better to drive with CS. It has less body roll, gets much better corner exit grip etc. My favorite two mods on my car are bbk and KW CS (admittedly probably in that order).

Seats benefit you more when you take the time (and $) to put in a roll bar and harnesses. The race seats I had in my Cayman S years ago were silly with the 3 pt belts, and uncomfortable for going around town with the 6 pt. My 2c.
Quote:
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+1 on suspension (and, JRZ).

As for seats, I still use the OEM seat but do the slide-the-seat-back,lock-the-seatbelt,hold-seatbelt-tension-while-cam's-locked,slide-the-seat-forward trick, and I'm locked in tight in my OEM seat, and can feel the car sliding immediately and am able to correct accordingly because my body is still sitting upright & close to the steering wheel.
I do the Quickfit now, and it keep me up right, but still need to brace my legs and sometimes it gets a bit distracting (just enough). I do agree with both of you on getting the car planted and stable when cornering and getting maximum exit grip is important. I do feel the stock suspension while good, has a bit too much roll, specially on long tight sweepers.

Thanks for the insight, keep them coming.

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Seats with stock belts.

Stock suspension is pretty darn good and seats will do a lot to improve your driving. Now if you're an advanced driver and sliding around in factory seats is not distracting, you probably wouldn't be asking this question and would be doing the suspension anyway.

I don't believe in the whole "you MUST USE harnesses and harness bars when you use a racing seat" mentality. Porsche uses race seats in their GT3/GT2/Carrera GT cars, Honda used race seats in their NSX-R, and all of these cars run standard 3pt belts without roll bars & harnesses. If you have a harness, you need a roll bar, but those have nothing to do with your seats.

IMO I really like the Recaro Pole Position seats. The leather quality and design fits well in a BMW, has great side bolsters, but not stupid high bolsters (like some true racing seats) which greatly hurts it's streetability.


0.02
Stock suspension is def good, better than most I've tried.

Think I'm with you on the race seats definitely require harness bar, but it can't really hurt and would probably be much better to do the entire system at once.

Just need to think about this, because neither is necessarily a "cheap" mod. Sometimes though, thinking too much just gets you indecisive, lol.

Each valid point, thought this would be easier.. , guess not. But is it ever? Aside from the decision I have to make, this is some great informative conversation.
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      02-12-2014, 09:38 PM   #17
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Suspension and more time training hip flexors. You're just not pressing your legs hard enough into the door and center console. Not doing it right unless you're bruised. And you've already got the harnesses. Man up dude.
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      02-12-2014, 09:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Suspension and more time training hip flexors. You're just not pressing your legs hard enough into the door and center console. Not doing it right unless you're bruised. And you've already got the harnesses. Man up dude.
Ha! I just DCT you and bam! I'm gone . Seriously though, I need grow a pair and just make a decision.

275/35/18 NT01 are in, need to go mount them and get ready for next track day.
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      02-12-2014, 09:54 PM   #19
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Ha! I just DCT you and bam! I'm gone . Seriously though, I need grow a pair and just make a decision.

275/35/18 NT01 are in, need to go mount them and get ready for next track day.
KW Competition transformed the car. I don't know how far off the CS are from that system -- probably not a ton. I'd get some of that first if I were you.

Have fun. Let me know what you think about the NT01s first time out. Geh.
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      02-12-2014, 10:28 PM   #20
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Suspension.

If you are "sliding all over the place" - look at your seated position. Add CG Locks - don't underestimate their effectiveness.
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      02-13-2014, 12:25 AM   #21
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I just got Recaro Profi's and hardware recently from GTM. I was surprised how good the deal was so I pulled the trigger. I chose Recaro over OMP since they are generally more desirable than OMP's when/if you need to sell them. This is my observation - not making this a vs. post. They are both FIA spec so in theory they are equally good with their functional differences coming down to fit and preference.

You'll need to check with your local orginization to see what the requirements are for Seats as their rules will effect what you'll end up having to buy and thus your budget.

I don't track enough with BMWCCA so I'll get an instructor maybe and they require matching safety equipment for both. Which means for the right to use a single racing seat at COTA this spring the driver's seat "costs double." You'll need to keep that in mind if your budget only allows doing one or the other.

My Preference would be to do seats later depending on the mods on the car. On street tires (Like PSS) or Streetish Tires (Like AD08R/RS3) The stock seats were fine, probably better with the quick fits. I got by this past year in OEM seats by changing my seating postion and steering wheel location, along with bracing my body. But now I intend to run slicks and from my expereince in other vehicles on race tires the race seats and harnesses make a big difference.

I didn't feel the need for seats until I had determined my suspension plus full race tires were going to make me need more support than the factory seat.
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      02-13-2014, 09:17 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estoril Blue View Post
Suspension.

If you are "sliding all over the place" - look at your seated position. Add CG Locks - don't underestimate their effectiveness.
Thanks for the feedback!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrakBch View Post
I just got Recaro Profi's and hardware recently from GTM. I was surprised how good the deal was so I pulled the trigger. I chose Recaro over OMP since they are generally more desirable than OMP's when/if you need to sell them. This is my observation - not making this a vs. post. They are both FIA spec so in theory they are equally good with their functional differences coming down to fit and preference.

You'll need to check with your local orginization to see what the requirements are for Seats as their rules will effect what you'll end up having to buy and thus your budget.

I don't track enough with BMWCCA so I'll get an instructor maybe and they require matching safety equipment for both. Which means for the right to use a single racing seat at COTA this spring the driver's seat "costs double." You'll need to keep that in mind if your budget only allows doing one or the other.

My Preference would be to do seats later depending on the mods on the car. On street tires (Like PSS) or Streetish Tires (Like AD08R/RS3) The stock seats were fine, probably better with the quick fits. I got by this past year in OEM seats by changing my seating postion and steering wheel location, along with bracing my body. But now I intend to run slicks and from my expereince in other vehicles on race tires the race seats and harnesses make a big difference.

I didn't feel the need for seats until I had determined my suspension plus full race tires were going to make me need more support than the factory seat.
Thanks for the feedback and recommendation of seats, those Profis do look nice. When I buy seats, I'll do both regardless, my OCD side won't let me have mismatched seats in my car like that
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