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      07-16-2009, 07:51 PM   #23
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I see this oil change subject is fast becoming the new dct vs 6mt war. The "bmw service schedule followers" vs the "i change my oil every 5 thousand miles team."
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      07-16-2009, 08:06 PM   #24
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how does lubrioil (germany 10w 60) compare to the castrol recommended for our cars. i nromally always use the castrol but had it done at a bmw specialist and he strongly recommended the stuff, so i went with it, anybody think i made a mistake. he said it meets all bmw m specs...
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      07-16-2009, 09:01 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seriousm3 View Post
numerous oil analysis on M cars have shown that oil starts to break down after about 8000 miles.
I'd be interested to se data and not a mere statement on that! Although I think you are technically right, for argument sake you could probably claim that oil starts to break down from mile 1 not 8000, the real question is if it has a true effect on the engine or not.

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Originally Posted by seriousm3 View Post
BMW engineers didn't come up with the free maintenance idea... that was the marketing department.
Technically you are probably right here also, however, isn't that a little short sighted? I am sure that the push for 18k maintenance interval was "market driven", but I would sincerely hope that it is also backed up by some engineering making sure that the product won't break down because of a decision made by marketing guys. Word would get around pretty quick if M cars were to all break down right out of warranty.

There really is no great conspiracy here. I am simply stating the fact that the US is VERY different from most of (if not all of) Europe replacing oil every 5k miles. The fact that americans still insist on doing it is probably partly tradition and partly market driven too. There is big money to be made in replacing oil every 5k miles. How many commercials do you see every day about engine sludge? If anything I would say that the 5k oil change is a product of a marketing guy and not an engineer!
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      07-16-2009, 09:14 PM   #26
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But hey if you wanna ignore the data and go against the grain for a measly few hundred bucks on a $60,000 car feel free.
Just one more thing....

A measly few hundred..... Do the math, if you spend 200 per change every 5k miles, and you are worried about what will happen once out of warranty, say for arguments sake that you keep the car until 100k miles. You will have dumped 4000 dollars on oil changes that (I will be generous here), offers marginal improvement of life for an engine.

Let's see, what will 4000 dollars get you? For the amount of driving I do, probably gas for 2 years, it would pay my insurance premium for 4 years, it would buy me two new sets of tires, I can go on and on.

Don't get me wrong, I am all about taking good care of your investment, but I am also about getting a good return on any further investment I make, and for me additional oil changes is not. Again not saying it is wrong to do it, if it makes you sleep better, go right ahead, I am just saying money could be better spent else were.
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      07-16-2009, 09:14 PM   #27
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Synthetic oil doesn’t break down with heat like conventional right? So why not just change the oil filter every five thousand miles and let the dealer change the oil at the maintenance intervals?
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      07-16-2009, 09:17 PM   #28
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Normal driving (even hard) I'd stick with normal recommended schedule for oil changes.
Tracking I would definitely do more frequent changes. Just to be safe. At the very least regular checking the level.
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      07-16-2009, 09:21 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikerjoy View Post
I'd be interested to se data and not a mere statement on that! Although I think you are technically right, for argument sake you could probably claim that oil starts to break down from mile 1 not 8000, the real question is if it has a true effect on the engine or not.



Technically you are probably right here also, however, isn't that a little short sighted? I am sure that the push for 18k maintenance interval was "market driven", but I would sincerely hope that it is also backed up by some engineering making sure that the product won't break down because of a decision made by marketing guys. Word would get around pretty quick if M cars were to all break down right out of warranty.

There really is no great conspiracy here. I am simply stating the fact that the US is VERY different from most of (if not all of) Europe replacing oil every 5k miles. The fact that americans still insist on doing it is probably partly tradition and partly market driven too. There is big money to be made in replacing oil every 5k miles. How many commercials do you see every day about engine sludge? If anything I would say that the 5k oil change is a product of a marketing guy and not an engineer!
+100
If every single M sold was bought outright you could probably say it's possible it was marketing department driven but considering the amount of leases that will end up back with BMW to sell there is no way in hell it is not backed up by solid engineering.
Maybe the American 5k oil change thing relates to some US engine?? Who knows?
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      07-16-2009, 10:13 PM   #30
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Waste?

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Originally Posted by MysticBlue View Post
Heck, if I was worried that much about 100 bucks, maybe I shouldn't even be driving this car.
Yes, it's only a car, but I still take pride in it and how I take care of it, and you must too, otherwise we'd all be driving corollas.
Waste of money? Sure. But the whole thing is nothing but a waste of money, so what's another 100 bucks.
While I agree with the point I think you're trying to make, it's hardly a "waste". Yes, you can not justify it on a spreadsheet, but the pleasure we derive from thes cars is immesurable for most of us.
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      07-16-2009, 10:17 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by SoreHead View Post
+100
If every single M sold was bought outright you could probably say it's possible it was marketing department driven but considering the amount of leases that will end up back with BMW to sell there is no way in hell it is not backed up by solid engineering.
Maybe the American 5k oil change thing relates to some US engine?? Who knows?
3k for an oil change used to be the rule, AFAIR. It is true that with synthetic oils the lasting ability has gone up. Your point about leases has no weight though, since BMW is typically getting those back in 3 years or so before any long term effects have shown up. Maybe extra changes only would financially make a difference if you're keeping a car 10 years or more, but most of us who consider ourselves "enthusiasts" just feel better about being conservative on this.
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      07-16-2009, 11:13 PM   #32
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Do the '15k oil change folks' think the M driving school changes the oil in those cars every 15k?

if you do.. then your a dummy.....



i change my oil twice as much as recommended... I live in a hot climate and track/autoX every once and a while.... and im not cheap and don't mind giving that beautiful motor fresh juice more then 'recommended..


Yea bmw built it.. but its now MY motor.. and i will take a lil extra care of it how i want....
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      07-16-2009, 11:16 PM   #33
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PLUS!

if we had a goh dang dip stick we could see exactly what state the oil is actually in... Feel it and smell it... look at it... taste it if you desire...
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      07-17-2009, 02:42 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikerjoy View Post
And here we go again.....

Everyone knows better than the engineers that actually designed, built and tested the car.

Changing oil every 5000 miles is very much an american thing. I lived my entire life in Sweden up until 4 years ago, and european brands now either have a dynamic service interval with the first oil change made after about 15-18k (exception on M3 and alike that have a break in service at 1.2k), or they have a static interval around 18k (30000km).

Do you really think BMW or any european manufacturer would state 18k if it was harmful for your car? BMW has incentive in doing so as service is free, but Porsche (just bought a Cayman S), has the first service at 20k (no break in service). Porsche actually has incentive to make you change oil more often since it is not free, but still they call for 20k (or 12 months), why? Because the car will be just fine doing so.

If you sleep better at night changing oil every 5k, go right ahead, but you are throwing your money away in my opinion (and BMW engineers might agree).
I don't know if I know better than the engineers but my conclusions are based on fact. My facts shows that 15k miles is too damn long for an oil change. It should be done at least once in between the factory scheduled maintenance especially during the first few oil cycles.

Here's my fact sheet:

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      07-17-2009, 03:45 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikerjoy View Post
Just one more thing....

A measly few hundred..... Do the math, if you spend 200 per change every 5k miles, and you are worried about what will happen once out of warranty, say for arguments sake that you keep the car until 100k miles. You will have dumped 4000 dollars on oil changes that (I will be generous here), offers marginal improvement of life for an engine.

Let's see, what will 4000 dollars get you? For the amount of driving I do, probably gas for 2 years, it would pay my insurance premium for 4 years, it would buy me two new sets of tires, I can go on and on.

Don't get me wrong, I am all about taking good care of your investment, but I am also about getting a good return on any further investment I make, and for me additional oil changes is not. Again not saying it is wrong to do it, if it makes you sleep better, go right ahead, I am just saying money could be better spent else were.
FYI never said 5k was the correct interval.

Personally i stick with 7500mi intervals... which means you change once between your factory 15,000 changes.

Really not that much more $$$. If you keep you car past 75k miles it will probably pay for itself in the long run with less maintenance costs down the road.
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      07-17-2009, 09:21 AM   #36
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Quote:
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If I wasn't tracking the car, you might have a point, but
I'm not leasing and I plan on keeping the car longer than 4 years.
I occasionally track and autoX.
I just changed it myself at 7500 miles right after a track day. Don't think that's unreasonable. If I was concererned about wasting 100 bucks, well, I probably shouldn't be on the track then. Heck, if I was worried that much about 100 bucks, maybe I shouldn't even be driving this car.
Yes, it's only a car, but I still take pride in it and how I take care of it, and you must too, otherwise we'd all be driving corollas.
Waste of money? Sure. But the whole thing is nothing but a waste of money, so what's another 100 bucks.
LOL +1

I also bought the car and dont see one additional oil change as a waste of money considering how much I paid for the car and I track it as well.
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      07-17-2009, 11:17 AM   #37
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Quote:
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if you wait 15k miles to do an oil change I hoping you are leasing....
its a lease, and ive been told a few times to get one in between, but idc that much lol
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      07-17-2009, 11:19 AM   #38
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but i thought u were talking about the regular oil change timed by bmw
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      07-17-2009, 09:32 PM   #39
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Thanks guys. I should talk to my advisor and make sure why the parts cost more than others.

I personally made my mind to change oil in between the recommended service to ease the engine as well as my mind.
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