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      07-16-2009, 10:11 AM   #1
newbieguy
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Why does BMW not use Brembo brakes

I'm not sure if this question has been ask before regarding the BMW's brake system. Does anyone know the reason why BMW does not use brembo being standard on the M cars? The oem brakes that we have are pretty good for street use but alot of the folks that track their cars upgrade their brake system to brembo's, stoptech, etc. Porsche's, MB AMG's , and Audi RS4's have them on as standard why not BMW M's?
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      07-16-2009, 10:55 AM   #2
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RS4s do not have Brembos as OEM. The cars that do come with Brembos or Brembos based designs with the exception of Porsche do not come track ready. They are typically a watered down version of the Brembo GT kit sold on the aftermarket. At a minimum, the pads and fluid would need to be changed to make it track capable just like some people have done with the BMW OEM.
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      07-16-2009, 11:08 AM   #3
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Cause BMW makes them much cheaper than to buy them from a third party.
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      07-16-2009, 11:09 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
RS4s do not have Brembos as OEM. The cars that do come with Brembos or Brembos based designs with the exception of Porsche do not come track ready. They are typically a watered down version of the Brembo GT kit sold on the aftermarket. At a minimum, the pads and fluid would need to be changed to make it track capable just like some people have done with the BMW OEM.
??? All the RS4's I've seen come with OEM Brembos as do the RS6's (at least in the USA). The OE units are generally similar to, but definitely different than, the Gran Tourismo kits. Different caliper models are used, not "watered down" in any way.

If BMW really wanted to impress their customers and give them the ultimate in OE performance/track day brakes, they would do well to call the boys over in Coventry at AP Racing. Seems to work for most top-end supercar manufacturers, as well as for the GT2 and GT4 FIA M3's.
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      07-16-2009, 11:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
Cause BMW makes them much cheaper than to buy them from a third party.
BMW does not make brake systems, nor does any other car manufacturer in the last 40 or 50 years that I'm aware of. There are less than 10 companies that provide nearly all the brakes for every car produced around the globe. Of course, they only produce what the manufacturer is willing to pay for. This is why you get one level of Brembos on a Lamborghini/Porsche/Ferrari and another completely different level on an STI/Evo/350Z.

By the way, nearly all BMW brakes are supplied by ATE division of Continental-Teves.
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      07-16-2009, 11:14 AM   #6
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At the end of the day, cost is the determining factor of what goes into building a particular car for a particular market.

So no Brembo in any M car.
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      07-16-2009, 11:23 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP Racing - Chris_B View Post
BMW does not make brake systems, nor does any other car manufacturer in the last 40 or 50 years that I'm aware of. There are less than 10 companies that provide nearly all the brakes for every car produced around the globe. Of course, they only produce what the manufacturer is willing to pay for. This is why you get one level of Brembos on a Lamborghini/Porsche/Ferrari and another completely different level on an STI/Evo/350Z.

By the way, nearly all BMW brakes are supplied by ATE division of Continental-Teves.
I meant it more as a joke rather than a statement. In any event, Mercedes buys molybdenum from a company of ours and uses it to combine with disc brake rotors. Higher performance AMG´s however do employ Brembo´s. Have no clue what BMW does really and thanks for letting me know. Oh and for sure there must be some economic insensitive for utilizing arguably inferior brakes, but I suppose they all do that, I´ve change my brakes on Porsche, AMGs and M all the time with improved results an all cases.
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      07-16-2009, 11:27 AM   #8
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Costs, and perhaps contracts is what determines what brakes go on a car.
The sliding caliper ATE system on the M3 would seem somewhat backwards considering what the M3 represents. I wonder if BMW have some kind of contract with ATE to supply all their calipers or something....?
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      07-16-2009, 11:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x838nwy View Post
Costs, and perhaps contracts is what determines what brakes go on a car.
The sliding caliper ATE system on the M3 would seem somewhat backwards considering what the M3 represents. I wonder if BMW have some kind of contract with ATE to supply all their calipers or something....?
The engineers win some battles (engine, differential, etc.) and the accountants win others (brakes and a few other areas).
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      07-16-2009, 12:24 PM   #10
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Folks thanks for all the feedback regarding my question but I'm still confuse as to why they dont offer brembo's on the M car's whether its because of costs, contract issue's or what have you. At the very least BMW should make it as an option for us consumer if we decide to add or not. I'm quite sure most of us will consider this upgrade if they do offer it.
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      07-16-2009, 12:28 PM   #11
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Cause BMW thinks that thier breaks are just as good as brembos.
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      07-16-2009, 01:31 PM   #12
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So that you can upgrade to Brembo through us

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      07-16-2009, 05:11 PM   #13
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I'm sure part of it is because most M drivers will be content with the stock brakes for the price they paid for the car. For those that want better than stock, it's not as if there aren't high-end aftermarket alternatives. Have you seen the AP Racing brakes that we carry? They are the same brand used on the M3 Lemans car.



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      07-16-2009, 05:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newbieguy View Post
Folks thanks for all the feedback regarding my question but I'm still confuse as to why they dont offer brembo's on the M car's whether its because of costs, contract issue's or what have you. At the very least BMW should make it as an option for us consumer if we decide to add or not. I'm quite sure most of us will consider this upgrade if they do offer it.
No, we won't... and BMW knows it, so no Brembo option.

There was an interview some years ago with the then-M manager and literally he admitted that the reason of no Brembos in the line up then was purely cost considerations. I think that it was posted in the Roundel magazine...

Even the X5/6 M will not have any Brembos, that 5000lbs+ beast of a vehicle.

This doesn't have anything to do with performance or even looks, it is what works for the intended use with the minimum cost. And BMW insists that sliding calipers are it... if you want fixed calipers you need to get real Brembos at Brembo.
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      07-16-2009, 07:53 PM   #15
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What's a good upgrade for street applications, maybe minor track days as well?

Nothing that will squeak to death daily too!
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      07-16-2009, 08:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duk View Post
What's a good upgrade for street applications, maybe minor track days as well?

Nothing that will squeak to death daily too!
See post #13.
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      07-16-2009, 10:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newbieguy View Post
Folks thanks for all the feedback regarding my question but I'm still confuse as to why they dont offer brembo's on the M car's whether its because of costs, contract issue's or what have you. At the very least BMW should make it as an option for us consumer if we decide to add or not. I'm quite sure most of us will consider this upgrade if they do offer it.
Umm... would we? I mean, all the kits in the market - AP, Brembo, Performance Friction, Rotora, etc. we can get through various distributors or even directly anyway. Buying a Brembo kit (may be with "BMW" painted on it) from BMW would most likely be more expensive than just getting a Brembo kit from EAS, for example. At least in the current set-up we can choose to up grade according to our budget and timing. That's how I look at it.

On a side-note, I think the M3 with its bespoke engine and exclusive parts are very expensive for BMW to make specially in Coupe form so keeping the possible options list as short as possible could make sense to BMW. I imagine it would be quite costly to them to put different brakes on perhaps one in five M3 coming out of their factory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony @ eas View Post
I'm sure part of it is because most M drivers will be content with the stock brakes for the price they paid for the car. For those that want better than stock, it's not as if there aren't high-end aftermarket alternatives. Have you seen the AP Racing brakes that we carry? They are the same brand used on the M3 Lemans car.



^ Are these the kits on the AP site or are they an exclusive spec to your outfit? I've never seen them on a car (E92) before, that's all. AP Racing FTW

p.s. Are the rear rotors strap-drive?
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      07-16-2009, 10:48 PM   #18
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Doesn't the 135i have Brembo brakes? They just have just been re-branded by BMW?

Correct?
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      07-16-2009, 11:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
No, we won't... and BMW knows it, so no Brembo option.

There was an interview some years ago with the then-M manager and literally he admitted that the reason of no Brembos in the line up then was purely cost considerations. I think that it was posted in the Roundel magazine...

Even the X5/6 M will not have any Brembos, that 5000lbs+ beast of a vehicle.

This doesn't have anything to do with performance or even looks, it is what works for the intended use with the minimum cost. And BMW insists that sliding calipers are it... if you want fixed calipers you need to get real Brembos at Brembo.
BUT the X5/X6 M versions do have fixed caliper, multi-piston front brakes. I believe the rears are still sliding calipers. At least that's what the press release said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
Doesn't the 135i have Brembo brakes? They just have just been re-branded by BMW?

Correct?
The 135 does have 6 piston front/2 piston rear, fixed caliper brakes made by Brembo. What REALLY doesn't make sense is, they offer a BBK for the 128/E9x that's pretty reasonably priced, but no BBK for the M3??? The Performance Brake kit is less than $2,000 shipped and it looks like that's for the front AND rear. I'd pony up $3-4,000 for an M version front and rear.

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...catalogid=4462


And the magazines said the RS4 used the Gallardo brakes. I'd think they would be pretty compentent binders/rotors. What do we get? Single piston sliding calipers with no ducts and tiny pads.
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      07-17-2009, 01:10 AM   #20
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Maybe BMW is counting on Dinan who sells a Brembo kit. OEM Brembos would make brake replacement under the maintenance warranty a lot more expensive for BMW. I'm sure a set of brembo discs and pads are way more expensive that the current OEM parts.

I think Brembos are a marketing ploy among most car makers. There's a Dodge Challenger R/T on display here which has brembo brakes (not the monobloc GT calipers) and all season tires. C'MON! That makes no sense.
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      07-17-2009, 02:15 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I think Brembos are a marketing ploy among most car makers. There's a Dodge Challenger R/T on display here which has brembo brakes (not the monobloc GT calipers) and all season tires. C'MON! That makes no sense.
BINGO!!!
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      07-17-2009, 02:35 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Maybe BMW is counting on Dinan who sells a Brembo kit. OEM Brembos would make brake replacement under the maintenance warranty a lot more expensive for BMW. I'm sure a set of brembo discs and pads are way more expensive that the current OEM parts.

I think Brembos are a marketing ploy among most car makers. There's a Dodge Challenger R/T on display here which has brembo brakes (not the monobloc GT calipers) and all season tires. C'MON! That makes no sense.
It's inevitable when common perception/acceptance/knowledge points towards a certain fact, that fact soon becomes overly generalised and inevitably exploited.

"Brembo makes some of the best brake systems when correctly applied." -> "Anything with Brembo on the calipers are fast."

It's sad but it happens...

Another favourite of mine:

"It's possible to make a 335i faster than an M3." -> "335i's are faster than M3's"
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