The dreaded 1200 mile DCT fluid change happened anyway - M3 Forum 2011 2010 BMW M3 2009 BMW M3 BMW E90 M3 E92

haze gray · 07-15-2009, 10:39 PM

Took it for 1200 mile service. Specifically told SA "this is a DCT, don't change the transmission fluid". Of course, he didn't put it on the work order and I walked away without reading it completely. Calls me today and says they "flushed" my transmission fluid and they don't have the correct type to replace it with. Overnighting the fluid from from Florida and car should be ready tommorrow (yeah, we'll see).

We then had a one-sided conversation about TSB's and drivers knowing more about their M3's than the certified technician working on it. Anyway, guess I'll get to meet the Service Manager when I pick it up and I plan to send a copy of the completed work order to BMWNA with a letter stating any problems associated with this M3's DCT might be attributed to improper work by VOB BMW of Rockville.

Anything I'm missing here about protecting myself and the car? What specific fluid should I be looking for on the work order? how much fluid does the DCT take? Who do I contact at BMWNA?

Thanks

///Metak · 07-15-2009, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haze gray

Took it for 1200 mile service. Specifically told SA "this is a DCT, don't change the transmission fluid".....

Thanks

My opinion is, you shouldn't even have to tell them this. It's there job to know this kind of stuff. Pretty sad...

foosh · 07-15-2009, 11:23 PM

I bought a 525i from VOB in the early 90's. I wasn't pleased with the service then. I've continually seen mixed reviews over the last nearly 20 years. It would be worth a few extra miles to go to Tischer.

elp_jc · 07-15-2009, 11:48 PM

I'd actually prefer a fluid change, to flush all the assembly crap from the tranny. The only issue is to do it right, so don't be scared. Just because a handful of techs screwed up in the past means yours will too. The fluid has to be replaced sooner or later; there's no such thing as 'lifetime oil' if you want your car to last. I'd probably be there myself and learn how to do it at the same time as checking the tech's work. As long as tech follows the manual it shouldn't be an issue. It's a freaking oil change. Good luck.

elmariachi · 07-16-2009, 01:42 AM

I had mine done the same way. Told those wankers not to touch the DCT oil but they just cant understand. Anyway, I fucked the dealership hollow and got a someone inside the Asiapac office to hook me up. A rep from Germany flew down with hand carried bottles of Pentosin which our cars use, and he did the flushing and fill up. I have been to track twice and no problems at all. I had a transmission fault once but i checked it out and it seemed like a fake alarm. Havent had it since.

So be positive. If its done properly, you dont have to worry. At least, I have new oil in my tranny after run in!

Cheers!

Big Windy · 07-16-2009, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elp_jc

I'd actually prefer a fluid change, to flush all the assembly crap from the tranny. The only issue is to do it right, so don't be scared. Just because a handful of techs screwed up in the past means yours will too. The fluid has to be replaced sooner or later; there's no such thing as 'lifetime oil' if you want your car to last. I'd probably be there myself and learn how to do it at the same time as checking the tech's work. As long as tech follows the manual it shouldn't be an issue. It's a freaking oil change. Good luck.

You really don't know what you are talking about.

DCT has a lifetime oil which is never supposed to be changed. There are probably 50 threads on this subject throughout the forum, and this issue has been discussed ad nauseam. The fluid does NOT "have to be replaced sooner or later," its not something you can do yourself, and its NOT a "freaking oil change."

to the OP, there are other members who have received completely new transmissions for this same thing. I'm not sure how BMWNA is handling it now, but I would do everything you possibly could to document this incident with BMW Customer Relations and make them aware that if you have any transmission related errors or problems that you'll demand nothing less than a full transmission replacement. there is absolutely NO EXCUSE from BMW at this point.

haze gray · 07-16-2009, 07:41 AM

Thanks, looks like you're a local owner too. I just want it done right now that they have drained it. I will call the Service Manager this morning to make sure he is aware of the incident and that they will follow whatever service procedures to refill it correctly. BMW Customer Relations is definitely on my list once I get the car back. Who do you like for M3 service?

gr8000 · 07-16-2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Windy

DCT has a lifetime oil which is never supposed to be changed. There are probably 50 threads on this subject throughout the forum, and this issue has been discussed ad nauseam. The fluid does NOT "have to be replaced sooner or later," its not something you can do yourself, and its NOT a "freaking oil change."

+1000

There are numerous cases of dealers who changed the DCT oil with something which was not the dedicated tranny fluid, and this caused enormous issues to the DCT. In most (if not all) of the cases where the owner drove off with the wrong fluid, the trany was ruined and eventually had to be replaced with a new one. Changing the oil is NOT needed for the entire lifetime of the trany.

At the time of my break in service, I asked / paid for changing the DCT fluid change. I don't know why, I guess it made me sleep better at nights. Given the seriousness of this issue, apart from stressing to them how serious this was if they screwed up the oil change, I also stayed there watching them performing the service. Luckily enough, there is a customer waiting area in that dealership which is seperated with part of the service area with a glass. There was no DCT fluid in stock so they had to order it from Germany, so I took the M3 home after the service and took it back a week later just to change the DCT fluid. No issues in my case, but unless you are there watching I wouldn't recommend to anyone the DCT oil change because experience has shown that dealers manage to screw it up.

///Metak · 07-16-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Windy

You really don't know what you are talking about.

DCT has a lifetime oil which is never supposed to be changed. There are probably 50 threads on this subject throughout the forum, and this issue has been discussed ad nauseam. The fluid does NOT "have to be replaced sooner or later," its not something you can do yourself, and its NOT a "freaking oil change."

to the OP, there are other members who have received completely new transmissions for this same thing. I'm not sure how BMWNA is handling it now, but I would do everything you possibly could to document this incident with BMW Customer Relations and make them aware that if you have any transmission related errors or problems that you'll demand nothing less than a full transmission replacement. there is absolutely NO EXCUSE from BMW at this point.

+1, I almost said something about that, but have been criticized for my 'tuff love' approach. There is just may too much misinformation flying around lately, some of which can be damaging and even dangerous. Like BW said, in so many words, this is a 'sealed' system, and I wouldn't be happy as though I just got something for free if this happened to me.

elp_jc · 07-16-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Windy

You really don't know what you are talking about.
DCT has a lifetime oil which is never supposed to be changed.

How about being a little bit more respecful when you disagree? Geez. If you're going to drink the manual's kool-aid, at least post technical reasons why you should not change the oil to have any credibility. If you change the oil with the PROPER FLUID and the PROPER AMOUNT, what's the problem? There's no such a thing as 'lifetime' fluid if you want maximum life out of your powertrain. Same argument with the 15K oil changes: what's the big deal if somebody wants to do an extra one? If you want to follow the manual, I have no problem. But if somebody wants to change their DCT oil at their cost, what's your problem? Tech (or you) just have to know what they're doing. Similar thing has happened to a few Z06 owners who find out techs blew their engines for adding oil in the wrong place (they have dry sumps). So yes, an oil change is quite simple if you know where to add oil and how much.

Bottom line is there's no need to change the oil at 1,200 miles. But I wouldn't leave it there for the life of the tranny either. A PROPERLY DONE oil change is never going to hurt anything, and that's a fact. Good day.

Silvertige · 07-16-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elp_jc

How about being a little bit more respecful when you disagree? Geez. If you're going to drink the manual's kool-aid, at least post technical reasons why you should not change the oil to have any credibility. If you change the oil with the PROPER FLUID and the PROPER AMOUNT, what's the problem? There's no such a thing as 'lifetime' fluid if you want maximum life out of your powertrain. Same argument with the 15K oil changes: what's the big deal if somebody wants to do an extra one? If you want to follow the manual, I have no problem. But if somebody wants to change their DCT oil at their cost, what's your problem? Tech (or you) just have to know what they're doing. Similar thing has happened to a few Z06 owners who find out techs blew their engines for adding oil in the wrong place (they have dry sumps). So yes, an oil change is quite simple if you know where to add oil and how much.

Bottom line is there's no need to change the oil at 1,200 miles. But I wouldn't leave it there for the life of the tranny either. A PROPERLY DONE oil change is never going to hurt anything, and that's a fact. Good day.

+1. With a big emphasis on correct tranny oil used which is in short supply.

haze gray · 07-16-2009, 09:03 PM

Well, I spoke to the Service Manager today. Got the distinct impression that my M3 is the #1 priority for them at this time. Says he has their lead technician on it and they will follow all BMW procedures to refill it correctly with the correct fluid, Which, by the way, is a little harder to get than the SA led me to believe. Funny how we "mere customers" already knew this. So a several hour event takes several more days than I expected. All in all other than the inconvience of having my car in the shop for more time than I wanted, it should come out okay. Still will make BMWNA aware and have a low threshold for any DCT issues.

"M3's are not fancy 3 series"

guardodoc · 07-18-2009, 09:16 PM

In old threads there is an SIB which tells the service what to do if the wrong fluid is used. If it has been driven, I believe they must replace the transmission and hoses.
I would request extension of the warranty to 6 years 100K miles

For comparison, the DCT type transmission in the Nissan GTR recommends every 18,000 mile transmission fluid changes. Same technology, fluid made by same company.

I expect my transmission to fail before my engine. I do twice frequency oil changes. it seems like it would make more sense to increase frequency of dct oil changes

Disclaimer: I'm an idiot and have no knowledge, experience or training about any of these things.

elp_jc · 07-19-2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guardodoc

Disclaimer: I'm an idiot and have no knowledge, experience or training about any of these things.

No, you're NOT an idiot. You have more common sense than many here. The life of ANY tranny without fluid changes is not going to be very long, especially if you live in a hot climate, and/or track your car.

I remember BMW 'sealing' (no drain plug) the differentials on their newer paralever final drives on motorcycles (the ones with a hollowed middle), and after they started failing left and right with age, had to add a proper drain plug and started recommending fluid changes (Duh!). The good news is DCT trannies are fully serviceable, and I could bet cash money they'll change their stupid 'lifetime fluid' tune soon. There's no such thing, at least if you expect it to last 100K miles. Take care.

haze gray · 07-21-2009, 10:47 PM

So I finally pick-up my M3 after 6 days in the shop because they drained the DCT and had trouble finding the correct fluid to refill it. Duh.

Get this, I have never seen the assigned SA, as he was never available. I've spoken to him on the phone but never laid eyes on him from drop off to pick-up. They give the bum's rush out of service, then tell me their precious 335xi has a 1/4 inch ding in the rear bumper and they're going to have to charge me for repairing it. This was after having me drive around a stripped down Nissan Sentra for 3 days before they "upgraded" me to a BMW loaner. I told them "BS" and they said "OK, they would let it go" I drove their BMW loaner home, parked it in my garage over the weekend, drove it to work and parked where I normally park the M3 and then back to the dealer. Probably 50 miles total.

I finally recovered the M3, none the worse for wear apparently, and notified BMWNA about the "unauthorized" service so they could put it on the service history.

Avoid BMW dealers in Rockville Maryland. Anybody got good news to relate about service at Faitfax or Sterling BMW in NoVa?

guardodoc · 07-22-2009, 12:20 AM

Typical BMW service visit in my experience.
However (glass is half full). If they didn't fill it with the wrong oil you're ahead. You got a free DCT oil change. That stuff is expensive.
Now the problem is where do you go when you need service. This place has demonstrated a pretty good level of incompetence as well as being disrespectful regarding the loaner. You wouldn't even be driving that car with the ding unless they had screwed up.
I'm pretty much on my last BMWs. The cars are tempermental and the software is a work in progress. The service departments are over their head with the complexity of the processes and they sold so many 3 series that they rush every job.
Sorry you had such an experience. Please do try to enjoy drving the car. When they are working right they're fun to drive.

guardodoc · 07-27-2009, 04:45 PM

Rich Warren of Bimmer Magazine reccomends every 30,000 mile DCT oil changes as part of his "old school" BMW Maintenance schedule. He also reccomends a change at the 1,200 mile service.

Big Windy · 07-27-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haze gray

Avoid BMW dealers in Rockville Maryland. Anybody got good news to relate about service at Faitfax or Sterling BMW in NoVa?

glad you got your car back...take it to Russel BMW in Baltimore. It is a hike, but it is an authorized BMW repair center, and they are competent.

Indy Red M3 · 10-13-2009, 05:57 PM

Fairfax BMW has a great mechanic, Rich Eccard, who I follow around to whereever dealership he is working. He took care of my E 46 M3, and now the E 92 M3. Can't recommend him enough.

haze gray · 10-14-2009, 04:24 PM

Thanks for the post. I'll keep him in mind for future issues.

8INTO3=M · 10-15-2009, 12:42 PM

With VOB being a long time BMW dealer -- and one who does HUGE volume how can they be SOOOOO LAME?

I didn't buy my car from them, but I have been there for service.

It would seem that BMWNA neds to go over to VOB and bang some heads. There is no reason for them to be this irresponsible and lame.

Rankin? Are you still there? Do you even care? Hello?? Hello?

What a dip$hit...

haze gray · 10-15-2009, 11:31 PM

Well it's running fine so far. God, I love this car! I posted this initially to vent my frustration and to warn new owners to be specific about the service they receive.

07-15-2009, 11:23 PM	#3
foosh Major Drives: 2008 M3 E93 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Annapolis, MD Posts: 1,282 iTrader: (0)	I bought a 525i from VOB in the early 90's. I wasn't pleased with the service then. I've continually seen mixed reviews over the last nearly 20 years. It would be worth a few extra miles to go to Tischer. __________________

07-15-2009, 11:48 PM	#4
elp_jc Colonel Drives: '08 E92 M3 6MT Join Date: May 2008 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 2,803 iTrader: (0)	I'd actually prefer a fluid change, to flush all the assembly crap from the tranny. The only issue is to do it right, so don't be scared. Just because a handful of techs screwed up in the past means yours will too. The fluid has to be replaced sooner or later; there's no such thing as 'lifetime oil' if you want your car to last. I'd probably be there myself and learn how to do it at the same time as checking the tech's work. As long as tech follows the manual it shouldn't be an issue. It's a freaking oil change. Good luck. __________________ '08 E92 M3 6MT, Silverstone/Black (carbon leather) Premium/Tech/Cold, Extended, 19s, HD/Sat, Ind. Audio, USB/iPod, Pwr. Sunshade, Park Distance, Moonroof. MODS: Al pedals, ZHP lighted knob, euro switch, rubber floor/trunk mats, JP Thunders, powdercoated 19s, painted stock gills, OEM performance grilles, reflector delete, tint.

07-16-2009, 01:42 AM	#5
elmariachi Major Drives: BMW ///M Division Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,213 iTrader: (1)	I had mine done the same way. Told those wankers not to touch the DCT oil but they just cant understand. Anyway, I fucked the dealership hollow and got a someone inside the Asiapac office to hook me up. A rep from Germany flew down with hand carried bottles of Pentosin which our cars use, and he did the flushing and fill up. I have been to track twice and no problems at all. I had a transmission fault once but i checked it out and it seemed like a fake alarm. Havent had it since. So be positive. If its done properly, you dont have to worry. At least, I have new oil in my tranny after run in! Cheers! __________________ 2008 E92 ///M3 Alpine White M-DCT\| Novillo-Black Interior\| Carbon Fibre Roof\| Premium Sound System\| EDC\| 19's Advan RS w/ Michelin PS2 Cups\| iPod\| GruppeM Air Intake\| GruppeM Steel Braided Lines\|Ferodo DS2500 Pads\| Akrapovic Full Header-Back Titanium Exhaust\| 6000K Philips D1S\| 3M Tints\|

07-16-2009, 07:41 AM	#7
haze gray Private First Class Drives: 2009 M3 Coupe / 2011 X5 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 156 iTrader: (0)	Thanks, looks like you're a local owner too. I just want it done right now that they have drained it. I will call the Service Manager this morning to make sure he is aware of the incident and that they will follow whatever service procedures to refill it correctly. BMW Customer Relations is definitely on my list once I get the car back. Who do you like for M3 service? Last edited by haze gray; 07-16-2009 at 07:42 AM. Reason: stiil can't spell

07-16-2009, 09:03 PM	#12
haze gray Private First Class Drives: 2009 M3 Coupe / 2011 X5 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 156 iTrader: (0)	update Well, I spoke to the Service Manager today. Got the distinct impression that my M3 is the #1 priority for them at this time. Says he has their lead technician on it and they will follow all BMW procedures to refill it correctly with the correct fluid, Which, by the way, is a little harder to get than the SA led me to believe. Funny how we "mere customers" already knew this. So a several hour event takes several more days than I expected. All in all other than the inconvience of having my car in the shop for more time than I wanted, it should come out okay. Still will make BMWNA aware and have a low threshold for any DCT issues. "M3's are not fancy 3 series"

07-15-2009, 10:39 PM	#1
haze gray Private First Class Drives: 2009 M3 Coupe / 2011 X5 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 156 iTrader: (0)	The dreaded 1200 mile DCT fluid change happened anyway Took it for 1200 mile service. Specifically told SA "this is a DCT, don't change the transmission fluid". Of course, he didn't put it on the work order and I walked away without reading it completely. Calls me today and says they "flushed" my transmission fluid and they don't have the correct type to replace it with. Overnighting the fluid from from Florida and car should be ready tommorrow (yeah, we'll see). We then had a one-sided conversation about TSB's and drivers knowing more about their M3's than the certified technician working on it. Anyway, guess I'll get to meet the Service Manager when I pick it up and I plan to send a copy of the completed work order to BMWNA with a letter stating any problems associated with this M3's DCT might be attributed to improper work by VOB BMW of Rockville. Anything I'm missing here about protecting myself and the car? What specific fluid should I be looking for on the work order? how much fluid does the DCT take? Who do I contact at BMWNA? Thanks Last edited by haze gray; 07-15-2009 at 10:42 PM. Reason: can't spell

07-18-2009, 09:16 PM	#13
guardodoc Private First Class Drives: 09 M3 e92TiAg, 2009 335i e92 Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Clemente Posts: 184 iTrader: (0)	DCT change In old threads there is an SIB which tells the service what to do if the wrong fluid is used. If it has been driven, I believe they must replace the transmission and hoses. I would request extension of the warranty to 6 years 100K miles For comparison, the DCT type transmission in the Nissan GTR recommends every 18,000 mile transmission fluid changes. Same technology, fluid made by same company. I expect my transmission to fail before my engine. I do twice frequency oil changes. it seems like it would make more sense to increase frequency of dct oil changes Disclaimer: I'm an idiot and have no knowledge, experience or training about any of these things.

07-21-2009, 10:47 PM	#15
haze gray Private First Class Drives: 2009 M3 Coupe / 2011 X5 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 156 iTrader: (0)	End of the story. So I finally pick-up my M3 after 6 days in the shop because they drained the DCT and had trouble finding the correct fluid to refill it. Duh. Get this, I have never seen the assigned SA, as he was never available. I've spoken to him on the phone but never laid eyes on him from drop off to pick-up. They give the bum's rush out of service, then tell me their precious 335xi has a 1/4 inch ding in the rear bumper and they're going to have to charge me for repairing it. This was after having me drive around a stripped down Nissan Sentra for 3 days before they "upgraded" me to a BMW loaner. I told them "BS" and they said "OK, they would let it go" I drove their BMW loaner home, parked it in my garage over the weekend, drove it to work and parked where I normally park the M3 and then back to the dealer. Probably 50 miles total. I finally recovered the M3, none the worse for wear apparently, and notified BMWNA about the "unauthorized" service so they could put it on the service history. Avoid BMW dealers in Rockville Maryland. Anybody got good news to relate about service at Faitfax or Sterling BMW in NoVa?

07-22-2009, 12:20 AM	#16
guardodoc Private First Class Drives: 09 M3 e92TiAg, 2009 335i e92 Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Clemente Posts: 184 iTrader: (0)	Haze. Typical BMW service visit in my experience. However (glass is half full). If they didn't fill it with the wrong oil you're ahead. You got a free DCT oil change. That stuff is expensive. Now the problem is where do you go when you need service. This place has demonstrated a pretty good level of incompetence as well as being disrespectful regarding the loaner. You wouldn't even be driving that car with the ding unless they had screwed up. I'm pretty much on my last BMWs. The cars are tempermental and the software is a work in progress. The service departments are over their head with the complexity of the processes and they sold so many 3 series that they rush every job. Sorry you had such an experience. Please do try to enjoy drving the car. When they are working right they're fun to drive.

07-27-2009, 04:45 PM	#17
guardodoc Private First Class Drives: 09 M3 e92TiAg, 2009 335i e92 Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Clemente Posts: 184 iTrader: (0)	Rich Warren of Bimmer Magazine reccomends every 30,000 mile DCT oil changes as part of his "old school" BMW Maintenance schedule. He also reccomends a change at the 1,200 mile service.

10-13-2009, 05:57 PM	#19
Indy Red M3 Registered Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: May 2009 Location: OAKTON, VA Posts: 3 iTrader: (0)	N. Virginia Service Fairfax BMW has a great mechanic, Rich Eccard, who I follow around to whereever dealership he is working. He took care of my E 46 M3, and now the E 92 M3. Can't recommend him enough.

10-14-2009, 04:24 PM	#20
haze gray Private First Class Drives: 2009 M3 Coupe / 2011 X5 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 156 iTrader: (0)	Thanks Thanks for the post. I'll keep him in mind for future issues.

10-15-2009, 12:42 PM	#21
8INTO3=M Private Drives: M3 Coupe -- Interlagos Blue Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: MMMaryland Posts: 66 iTrader: (0)	With VOB being a long time BMW dealer -- and one who does HUGE volume how can they be SOOOOO LAME? I didn't buy my car from them, but I have been there for service. It would seem that BMWNA neds to go over to VOB and bang some heads. There is no reason for them to be this irresponsible and lame. Rankin? Are you still there? Do you even care? Hello?? Hello? What a dip$hit...

10-15-2009, 11:31 PM	#22
haze gray Private First Class Drives: 2009 M3 Coupe / 2011 X5 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 156 iTrader: (0)	Yeah Well it's running fine so far. God, I love this car! I posted this initially to vent my frustration and to warn new owners to be specific about the service they receive.