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      06-01-2007, 08:36 AM   #177
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Allah Almighty Said:

"And when the heaven splitteth asunder and becometh ROSY LIKE RED HIDE - (The Noble Quran, 55:37)"

What Allah Almighty is Saying here is that when Galaxies explode, they form a red-rose-shaped explosion. He is also telling us that the Universe will all turn into red exploded galaxies looking like red or reddish roses when the Day of Judgment happens.

In the Arabic Noble Verse, "wardatan" was translated as "ROSY" above. The root word "WARDA" in Arabic LITERALLY means "ROSE" or "FLOWER". The "tan" at the end of "wardatan" is not part of the word. It is only an Arabic PUNCTUATION that only changes the sound of the word for grammatical rules. It is pronounced as "ten", with the "a" being short. The reason why the above word was not written as "wardaten" is because in many parts of the world, the English word "ten" (number 10) is pronounced as "tin". Only the American-English pronounce the "e" as a short "a". Most of the world uses the British-English system and they pronounce the "e" as "i", and the "o" as it is, such as "stop" pronounced as "stope". The American-English pronounces the "o" as a thick "a". Also, if we were to add two Arabic characters, "alif" and "noon" at the end of "warda", it would change the pronunciation to "taan" (wardataan), and it then becomes two "wardas"; plural.

Explosion of Galaxies can not be seen with the naked eye. It also can not be seen with regular telescopes. You need the special Government-owned and NASA-owned "Hubble Space" Super Telescope. The point from all of this is that Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him could not have come up with any of this on his own 1500 years ago!

See more at: http://www.answering-christianity.com/red_galaxy.htm
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      06-01-2007, 10:22 AM   #178
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Just joining in on the fact finding:
Not ALL glactic explosions are rosy red. Neglecting the possible doppler shift to red, the color has a lot to do with the local gaseous content. The universe is a wildly beautiful spectrum of colors out there, but be careful when looking at "photographs" taken from deep space telescopes, they are often post-production renditions of the color that might be seen with the naked eye, if close enough to observe. Heck, even most of the images from the Mars rovers were color-enhanced, you just can't transmit that many 8 megapixel images over a tiny microwave link across millions of miles in a narrow window when your antenna happens to line up with the point of origin.

There have been others who have seen WWIII, from other religious texts. What about Revelations in the bible? John saw some parallel to what you have attributed to Muhammad (pbuh, out of respect), but in his version the son of Muhammad would more closely resemble the characteristics attributed to the antichrist. In John's version, those who follow Jesus would ultimately prevail, and then both agree to a thousand years of peace.

Nostradamus and Hisler vs. Hitler: How about Ibraham (sp?) vs. Abraham? I don't think anyone who has read either religious text would dispute they are the same person, showing his faith to the point of sacrificing his son (which is in fact an allegory to what God did in sacrificing his son Jesus to save the world). But the spelling is just a bit off, depending on the language. Nostra's was a written text, but if similar to quran as an oral history originally, I could easily hear a foreign-sounding name like Hitler and transcribe it as Hisler. And how many millions of sons and daughters were dragged across the countryside to their death in boxcars, pulled by steam-belching beasts?

I have a hard time with my personal faith in the authenticity of large portions of the bible, because it has been through 2000 years of "revisions and translations" but I wonder, without being able to hear Muhammad (pbuh, out of respect) chant, has the quran also seen some of those same "revisions" over the millenia?
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      06-01-2007, 11:12 AM   #179
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> It is VERY vague, and how on earth do you translate “Hister” as “Hitler”?

Same way you translate blood clot as embryo.

> I have also told you about things in our religion such as hygiene. We do not eat/drink blood, dead meat or pigs.

Yet Muhammed doesn't even mention boiling water other than to use it to scold evildoers.

> What about the fact that they are the skinniest and most malnourished people on the Earth.

That's probably because of all the sex they constantly have with eachothers women.

> his shows that your heart is closed and that you reject what is factual.

I accept facts but not your highly suspect interpretations of them.
Yes, it is true that my heart is closed... That doesn't change what's written in the Quran.

> And their hearts are sealed, so that they apprehend not.

Is your heart is sealed because you don't apprehend that Nostradamus is a true seer?

> Anyway I’m just showing that the Quran is full of wisdom

I'm not denying that, just saying that you're trying to prove there is more wisdom there than actually written.

> How did he know that the Earth (and Heavens) used to be smoke?

But that's wrong, it was dust, not smoke.
Dust isn't smoke. He knew the word for dust yet used the word smoke. Peculiar don't you think?

> What about the creation of humans from clay? (dust and water)

But clay is not dust and water. It's much more specific than that, and you don't even need clay. You need other things, like amino-acids.

> BUT how did our Holy Prophet come to know that Iron came from outer space?

He did not mention outer space:

And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind…

Might as well say this is proof of the Enterprise's transporter technology: Beam down some iron.

Besides, Allah sent down everything else, so why is Iron special?

> Allah Almighty is Saying here is that when Galaxies explode, they form a red-rose-shaped explosion

The authorized 'official' translation says:
[55:37] When the sky disintegrates, and turns rose colored like paint.

He says disintegrates, not explode. And he doesn't mention galaxies, he says sky.

I've seen rose colored sky. It is beautiful.
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      06-01-2007, 05:41 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_! View Post
>
Yet Muhammed doesn't even mention boiling water other than to use it to scold evildoers.
Muhammed didn't say it, it was God. Its one thing not to believe, but the evil doers are the ones who killed muslims just becuase they believed. If you just let them be, then you are ok.. otherwise when you try to kill them - you get the boiling water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_! View Post
>
Is your heart is sealed because you don't apprehend that Nostradamus is a true seer?
.
He never said our hearts would be sealed if I didn't believe what he said.. so I guess not.
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      06-02-2007, 01:31 AM   #181
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> The grandfather told him to take a coal basket to the river and bring back water. The boy did as he was told but the water always dripped out and the basket was empty upon arriving back home every time, no matter how fast he ran.

My religion has this story too, but there where two brothers and the basket was a test of the father who had but enough money to send one of the brothers to college:

One brother ran with the basket time after time after time and found it empty when he got to his father.

The other brother filled the basket, noticed the water dripped out and looked around him. He found some leaves to line the basket, filled it with water and brought the water to his father, who praised him for his insight and understanding of how the world works.

So now one brother does the same thing over and over again in a factory, hoping hard graft will cleanse his soul, while the other brother lives a life of leisure, enjoying the fruits of his pursuit of worldly knowledge.

The moral of the story is that everyone can be happy, but some people nead a reason.
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      06-02-2007, 08:26 AM   #182
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Ibrahim vs. Abraham
Ibrahim is an Arabic name whereas Abraham is not. There are many prophets mentioned in the Quran that use Arabic names however the bible has other names for them. Eg. Noah=Nuh (AS), Moses=Musa (AS)

but in his version the son of Muhammad would more closely resemble the characteristics attributed to the antichrist. In John's version, those who follow Jesus would ultimately prevail, and then both agree to a thousand years of peace.

Firstly bro, the main difference between Islam and Christianity is that we believe Jesus [Isa (AS)] is Allah’s prophet and not his son. I can give many reasons for this if you would like. Secondly, we too believe in the “anti-christ”. We believe that Imam Mehdi will be here on earth and will resemble the Holy Prophet is appearance and character. His mother’s name will also be Aminah (pbuh) and his father’s name will be Mohammed (pbuh). Imam Mehdi will spread Islam throughout the world. Then when Imam Mehdi leaves the world (I do not want to say “die” because we do not say “die” if someone’s life ends in the way of Islam) Prophet Isa (AS) [Jesus] will perform his funeral and then slay the “anti-christ”. We believe “Jesus” will come at time of morning prayers on the wings of two angels, and will then pray behind the Imam of the prayers (Imam Mehdi). Then “Jesus” will approach Dajjal (anti-christ) and his followers who will mostly be jews. “Jesus”’s breath can kill anyone it reaches, and his breath reaches as far as his eyes can see. Then he will slay the anti-christ and the world will be in peace. There are also many benefits of “Jesus” coming back to the world. When he comes there will be many blessings such as animals will not harm anyone or be able to poison them etc. the earth will be so fertile that if you plant a seed in a stone, it will grow!

I have a hard time with my personal faith in the authenticity of large portions of the bible, because it has been through 2000 years of "revisions and translations" but I wonder, without being able to hear Muhammad (pbuh, out of respect) chant, has the quran also seen some of those same "revisions" over the millenia?

Well, I have problems with Christianity for loads of reasons. I could tell you if you would like to know. No disrespect though bro. Actually, the Quran has never been changed. Allah guarantees this in the Quran. Sure, unbelievers might try make false editions to make us look bad and some translators might translate it wrong, but the original Arabic has never changed!
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      06-02-2007, 09:04 AM   #183
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Same way you translate blood clot as embryo.

You haven’t read the website. If you read it you will see that the true meaning of “alaq” in it’s context is used to mean “something that sticks” and NOT a “blood clot”. The whole argument that people that criticize embryology in the Quran, is based on WRONG translations. You really have to read ALL of that website before you can say the Quran is wrong. The website shows there is not one error in its account of embryology. Therefore it raises the question – how could the Holy Prophet know this?

Yet Muhammed doesn't even mention boiling water other than to use it to scold evildoers.

Again, is the Quran called “Book of Hygiene” or is it called the “Quran”? But even you cannot deny that Islam encourages hygiene. Hygiene in food is mentioned, hygiene in preparation for prayers is also mentioned etc etc. Plus not to mention the various Hadiths we have about hygiene.

Let me ask you something else. Let’s consider for a moment that we both agree that Islam is the right way of life and Allah is god. Then, I ask you how a society can work without punishment for “evildoers”. Society would collapse if there were no jails etc. If people thought they could get away with crime, they would commit crimes.

That's probably because of all the sex they constantly have with eachothers women.

Here we go with the assumptions again. The point is that they are heavily malnourished. Therefore there is no evidence that they benefit from their milk-blood drink whereas I have provided evidence that blood can cause harm if it is drank.

I accept facts but not your highly suspect interpretations of them.
Yes, it is true that my heart is closed... That doesn't change what's written in the Quran.


It is good that you admit your heart is closed. Allah also says that because of your heart being closed, you will not comprehend the truth. You’re right it doesn’t change what’s written in the Quran. But there is not one scientific error in the Quran and it’s way of life that it educated us about keeps us pure and is best for us.

Is your heart is sealed because you don't apprehend that Nostradamus is a true seer?

Look again at how EXTREMELY different his verses are translated. He did not predict Hitler like you said. There is no need to even translate anything to see that “Hitler” was not mentioned. The only extreme errors in translation in the Quran is when a) people don’t understand the Arabic language properly b) when the translators do not understand the context and use a particular meaning of words instead of their other meanings which should be used because of the context.

I'm not denying that, just saying that you're trying to prove there is more wisdom there than actually written.

There is divine wisdom in the Quran. You obviously cannot see it. Look at embryology for example. I gave you a website with a lengthy explanation showing that the Quran has not even ONE scientific error, but all you have to say is that we translated “blood clot” as “embryo”…WRONG TRANSLATION!

But that's wrong, it was dust, not smoke.
Dust isn't smoke. He knew the word for dust yet used the word smoke. Peculiar don't you think?


Actually, it is created from dust and gas. Look:

A new star forming out of a cloud of gas and dust (nebula), which is one of the remnants of the "smoke" that was the origin of the whole universe.
(The Space Atlas, Heather and Henbest, page 50)

But clay is not dust and water. It's much more specific than that, and you don't even need clay. You need other things, like amino-acids.

Look:

http://www.answering-christianity.co..._from_clay.htm
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_59.html
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_58.html
http://www.answering-christianity.co...in_of_life.htm

He did not mention outer space:

And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind…

Might as well say this is proof of the Enterprise's transporter technology: Beam down some iron.

Besides, Allah sent down everything else, so why is Iron special?


Allah says he sent DOWN Iron. What is above the Earth? Outer space. And I have already mentioned why Iron is so special. I have completely covered the importance of it AND the mathematical miracle in the Quran. i.e. the numerical value for the word “Iron” in Arabic is 26 which is the same as the number of “Iron” on the periodic table. Here’s why Iron’s so important:

Of all the metals there is none more essential to life than iron. It is the accumulation of iron in the center of a star which triggers a supernova explosion and the subsequent scattering of the vital atoms of life throughout the cosmos. It was the drawing by gravity of iron atoms to the center of the primeval earth that generated the heat which caused the initial chemical differentiation of the earth, the outgassing of the early atmosphere, and ultimately the formation of the hydrosphere. It is molten iron in the center of the earth which, acting like a gigantic dynamo, generates the earth's magnetic field, which in turn creates the Van Allen radiation belts that shield the earth's surface from destructive high-energy-penetrating cosmic radiation and preserve the crucial ozone layer from cosmic ray destruction…

Without the iron atom, there would be no carbon-based life in the cosmos; no supernovae, no heating of the primitive earth, no atmosphere or hydrosphere. There would be no protective magnetic field, no Van Allen radiation belts, no ozone layer, no metal to make hemoglobin [in human blood], no metal to tame the reactivity of oxygen, and no oxidative metabolism.

The intriguing and intimate relationship between life and iron, between the red color of blood and the dying of some distant star, not only indicates the relevance of metals to biology but also the biocentricity of the cosmos…41
This account clearly indicates the importance of the iron atom. The fact that particular attention is drawn to iron in the Qur'an also emphasises the importance of the element. In addition, there is another hidden truth in the Qur'an which draws attention to the importance of iron: Surat al-Hadid 25, which refers to iron, contains two rather interesting mathematical codes.
"Al- Hadid" is the 57th sura in the Qur'an. The abjad of the word "Al-Hadid" in Arabic, when the numerological values of its letters are added up, is also 57. (For abjad calculations see the section on Numerological Calculations (Abjad) in the Qur'an.)

The numerological value of the word "hadid" alone is 26. And 26 is the atomic number of iron.


Moreover, iron oxide particles were used in a cancer treatment in recent months and positive developments were observed. A team led by Dr. Andreas Jordan, at the world famous Charité Hospital in Germany, succeeded in destroying cancer cells with this new technique developed for the treatment of cancer-magnetic fluid hyperthermia (high temperature magnetic liquid). As a result of this technique, first performed on the 26-year-old Nikolaus H., no new cancer cells were observed in the patient in the following three months.
This method of treatment can be summarised as follows:

1. A liquid containing iron oxide particles is injected into the tumour by means of a special syringe. These particles spread throughout the tumour cells. This liquid consists of thousands of millions of particles, 1,000 times smaller than the red blood corpuscles, of iron oxide in 1 cm3 that can easily flow through all blood vessels

2. The patient is then placed in a machine with a powerful magnetic field.

3. This magnetic field, applied externally, begins to set the iron particles in the tumour in motion. During this time the temperature in the tumour containing the iron oxide particles rises by up to 45 degrees.

In a few minutes the cancer cells, unable to protect themselves from the heat, are either weakened or destroyed. The tumour may then be completely eradicated with subsequent chemotherapy.

In this treatment it is only the cancer cells that are affected by the magnetic field, since only they contain the iron oxide particles. The spread of this technique is a major development in the treatment of this potentially lethal disease. In the treatment of such a widespread disease as cancer, the use of the expression "iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind" (Qur'an, 57:25) in the Qur'an is particularly noteworthy. Indeed, in that verse, the Qur'an may be indicating the benefits of iron for human health. (Allah knows best.)

Anyway, I still feel there is lots of information in the Quran that assumptions cannot explain. The Quran mentions things like the universe expanding, everything in the universe in motion, comets made of ice, the universe in perfect balance, embryology, shape of the earth, layers in the sea etc etc…
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      06-02-2007, 09:06 AM   #184
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The moral of the story is that everyone can be happy, but some people nead a reason.

The moral of the story I told you, was that even if you don’t understand the Quran in Arabic, its words still cleanse your heart and purify your soul.
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      06-02-2007, 09:18 AM   #185
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Check all of these documents out. I saved them for you. I seriously doubt that our Holy Prophet had access to all this information. Firstly, he was uneducated. Secondly, most of this information was not known to mankind 1400 years ago. Please read everything, even the ones you have heard of before. I think these documents explain it better. You may think it is vague or whatever, but Allah says your heart is sealed and you cannot understand. I do hope your heart opens to the truth though...
Attached Files
File Type: doc BLACK HOLES.doc (38.0 KB, 62 views)
File Type: doc CALCULATING THE LUNAR YEAR.doc (31.5 KB, 59 views)
File Type: doc CHEST CONTRACTION WITH INCREASING HEIGHT.doc (37.0 KB, 50 views)
File Type: doc COMBUSTION WITHOUT FIRE.doc (30.0 KB, 53 views)
File Type: doc CORONARY BY.doc (24.5 KB, 66 views)
File Type: doc CREATION FROM CLAY.doc (33.0 KB, 68 views)
File Type: doc CREATION IN SIX DAYS.doc (29.5 KB, 59 views)
File Type: doc DARKNESS IN THE SEAS AND INTERNAL WAVES.doc (53.5 KB, 67 views)
File Type: doc DIFFERENT POINTS IN THE RISING AND SETTING OF THE SUN.doc (32.5 KB, 70 views)
File Type: doc FISH.doc (47.0 KB, 61 views)
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      06-02-2007, 09:21 AM   #186
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File Type: doc HOW THE PROCESS OF PHOTOSYNTHESIS BEGINS.doc (68.5 KB, 59 views)
File Type: doc LAND LOSS AT THE EXTREMITIES.doc (61.5 KB, 67 views)
File Type: doc LOCUSTS MOVING IN SWARMS.doc (37.5 KB, 42 views)
File Type: doc MIRACULOUS MIXTURE.doc (52.0 KB, 58 views)
File Type: doc MODERN MEANS OF TRANSPORT.doc (38.5 KB, 62 views)
File Type: doc ORBITS AND THE ROTATING UNIVERSE.doc (52.5 KB, 59 views)
File Type: doc PORK AND ITS HARMFUL EFFECTS ON HEALTH.doc (30.0 KB, 40 views)
File Type: doc RAINS WHICH BRING A DEAD LAND BACK TO LIFE.doc (35.0 KB, 46 views)
File Type: doc REDUCED MOVEMENT AT NIGHT.doc (39.5 KB, 43 views)
File Type: doc HEALTH BENEFITS OF MOVEMENT.doc (26.5 KB, 63 views)
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      06-02-2007, 09:25 AM   #187
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File Type: doc SUB.doc (24.0 KB, 67 views)
File Type: doc THE CREATION OF HUMAN BEINGS FROM WATER.doc (56.5 KB, 62 views)
File Type: doc THE DATE AND ITS USES AS DESCRIBED IN THE QUR.doc (65.5 KB, 47 views)
File Type: doc THE EARS ARE ACTIVE DURING SLEEP.doc (24.0 KB, 58 views)
File Type: doc THE EARTH.doc (24.5 KB, 60 views)
File Type: doc THE EARTH DISGORGES ITS CHARGES.doc (44.5 KB, 65 views)
File Type: doc THE EXISTENCE OF ANIMAL SOCIETIES.doc (43.0 KB, 67 views)
File Type: doc THE EXISTENCE OF MICROSCOPIC LIFE.doc (30.5 KB, 62 views)
File Type: doc THE FEMALE HONEY BEE.doc (37.0 KB, 56 views)
File Type: doc THE FIG.doc (62.0 KB, 44 views)
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      06-02-2007, 09:33 AM   #188
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> You really have to read ALL of that website before you can say the Quran is wrong.

I'm saying the website is wrong, not the Quran.

096.002
YUSUFALI: Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:
PICKTHAL: Createth man from a clot.
SHAKIR: He created man from a clot.

No serious Islamic translators support your translation/interpretation of the word, and those that do, do so only to prove *their* point, not to be faithful to Muhammed's words and meaning.

Muhammed said blood clot, he meant blood clot because that's exactly what it looks like when a woman has a miscarriage at that time during the pregnancy.

> Society would collapse if there were no jails etc.

Yet the Quran disproves of jails.

> The point is that they are heavily malnourished.

They are malnourished because it stopped raining, not because the diet they would have if there was enough rain wouldn't be nourishing.

> but all you have to say is that we translated “blood clot” as “embryo”…WRONG TRANSLATION!

Well, it stops there, doesn't it. You've given me a whole website about embryology which stands or falls on one line of text in the Quran, which was not properly translated!

The website twists the words of Muhammed. You would call it blasphemy if it didn't put Muhammed in a good light.

You are not doing Islam a favor by making claims like this and undermining the entire religion's credibility.

> The numerological value of the word "hadid" alone is 26. And 26 is the atomic number of iron.

26 is also the house number of the local butcher.

Some Mayan groups froze their New Year to July 26, “when Sirius rises in that part of the world.”

In gematria, 26 is the name of God in Hebrew.

There are 26 letters in our alphabet.

Precipitevolissimevolmente with 26 letters is the longest word in the Italian language. It means `as fast as possible'.

5 + 6 + 7 + 8 = 26

I'm sorry. I had an open mind but you closed it for me by dragging all sorts of frivolous claims into the discussion.
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      06-02-2007, 09:33 AM   #189
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File Type: doc THE FINE TUNING IN THE UNIVERSE.doc (44.0 KB, 62 views)
File Type: doc THE FOOD CYCLE.doc (43.0 KB, 68 views)
File Type: doc THE FORCE OF GRAVITY AND ORBITAL MOVEMENTS.doc (35.5 KB, 60 views)
File Type: doc THE FORMATION OF HAIL.doc (27.5 KB, 46 views)
File Type: doc THE FORMATION OF MILK.doc (41.0 KB, 62 views)
File Type: doc THE FORMATION OF PETROL.doc (26.5 KB, 63 views)
File Type: doc THE FORMATION OF RAIN.doc (53.5 KB, 56 views)
File Type: doc THE FUNCTION OF MOUNTAINS.doc (53.5 KB, 74 views)
File Type: doc THE IDENTITY IN THE FINGERPRINT.doc (44.5 KB, 61 views)
File Type: doc THE IMPORTANCE OF MOVEMENT IN SLEEP.doc (38.5 KB, 49 views)
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      06-02-2007, 09:36 AM   #190
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File Type: doc THE LAYERS OF THE EARTH.doc (41.5 KB, 59 views)
File Type: doc THE MENSTRUAL PERIOD.doc (24.5 KB, 71 views)
File Type: doc THE MIRACLE OF HONEY.doc (78.5 KB, 52 views)
File Type: doc THE MOON.doc (36.0 KB, 60 views)
File Type: doc THE MOVEMENT OF MOUNTAINS.doc (89.5 KB, 60 views)
File Type: doc THE OLIVE.doc (67.5 KB, 48 views)
File Type: doc THE PERFECT EQUILIBRIUM IN THE UNIVERSE.doc (37.0 KB, 47 views)
File Type: doc THE PROGRAMMING IN GENES.doc (38.5 KB, 52 views)
File Type: doc THE PROPORTION OF RAIN.doc (63.5 KB, 56 views)
File Type: doc THE PROTECTED ROOF.doc (37.5 KB, 68 views)
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      06-02-2007, 09:39 AM   #191
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File Type: doc THE REGION THAT CONTROLS OUR MOVEMENTS.doc (25.0 KB, 63 views)
File Type: doc THE RETURNING SKY.doc (64.5 KB, 59 views)
File Type: doc THE ROUNDNESS OF THE EARTH.doc (34.0 KB, 62 views)
File Type: doc THE SEAS NOT MINGLING WITH ONE ANOTHE1.doc (48.0 KB, 44 views)
File Type: doc THE SEQUENCE IN DEVELOPMENT OF HUMAN ORGANS.doc (34.0 KB, 59 views)
File Type: doc THE SKY MADE A DOME.doc (44.5 KB, 58 views)
File Type: doc THE SPLITTING EARTH.doc (53.5 KB, 60 views)
File Type: doc THE STAGES OF WIND FORMATION.doc (32.5 KB, 75 views)
File Type: doc THE STAR SIRIUS.doc (37.5 KB, 58 views)
File Type: doc THE STRUCTURAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE SUN.doc (25.5 KB, 60 views)
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      06-02-2007, 09:41 AM   #192
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And finally...

There are lots more, but that should MORE than give you something to think about. Well, that's if you even want to read them. It's up to you...
Attached Files
File Type: doc THE SUN.doc (36.0 KB, 56 views)
File Type: doc THE TRIBE OF ISRAEL WILL BECOME VERY HAUGHTY.doc (32.0 KB, 65 views)
File Type: doc THE TRUTH OF DESTINY.doc (36.0 KB, 44 views)
File Type: doc THE USE OF ELECTRICITY.doc (38.0 KB, 60 views)
File Type: doc THE VOYAGE TO THE MOON.doc (24.0 KB, 51 views)
File Type: doc THE WEIGHT OF CLOUDS.doc (40.0 KB, 60 views)
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      06-02-2007, 09:54 AM   #193
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Muhammed said blood clot, he meant blood clot because that's exactly what it looks like when a woman has a miscarriage at that time during the pregnancy.

The website twists the words of Muhammed. You would call it blasphemy if it didn't put Muhammed in a good light.

No, not true. Have you considered all the other stages of pregnancy the Quran describes? And look:

The word "alaqah" refers to a leech or bloodsucker. This is an appropriate description of the human embryo from days 7-24 when it clings to the endometrium of the uterus, in the same way that a leech clings to the skin. Just as the leech derives blood from the host, the human embryo derives blood from the decidua or pregnant endometrium. It is remarkable how much the embryo of 23-24 days resembles a leech (Fig. 2). As there were no microscopes or lenses available in the 7th century, doctors would not have known that the human embryo had this leech-like appearance. In the early part of the fourth week, the embryo is just visible to the unaided eye because it is smaller than a kernel of wheat.

The root word from which this word is derived is the word "Aa-la-qa." It has the general meaning of "to hang" or "to cling." By employing various grammatical manipulations on this word we come up with the aforementioned 160 derivations each of which is closely associated with the concept of "clinging or hanging." For example, one derivation has the general meaning of "devotion" (to cling to with love), another has the general meaning of "hanger" (to hang up clothes), a third conveys the meaning of "dowry" (the money paid to the woman in order to cause the couple to "cling together" in marriage), a fourth form of this word has the general meaning of "lust" (to cling to something with desire and lust), a fifth form has the general meaning of "to ensnare" (an animal gets hung up in a net), a sixth form has the general meaning of "to cling to by your nails," etc.
Muslims were presented with a book from God which told them that "He (God) created humanity from an Alaq." Those who read this verse "interpreted" it based upon the meaning they felt most appropriate. Humans have blood in them so the verse must mean "blood clot." How could a person be created from worms, they reasoned? However, the verse remained in Arabic and the text retained its dual meaning despite how humanity had tried to understand the meaning. When some people chose to translate the meanings of the Qur'an into English they were faced with a situation where they had to chose one or the other. Unlike the original Arabic, the English language would not allow for a dual meaning. Thus, the translators looked at both meanings, "clump of blood," and "leech" and tried to reason, "Which one appears to my intellect to be the intended meaning, for humans to have been created from a blood clot or for them to have been created from leeches?" Obviously, just as humans would have a hard time imagining "bugs" flying around in their software, so too did they have a hard time imagining "leeches" transmuting into humans, so the verse was translated as "blood clot."

Yet the Quran disproves of jails.

I was speaking theoretically. There are many forms of punishments. Jails are not the only one. The whole point is that people have to be punished so that they do not commit crimes again and so other people learns from their mistakes. It’s a basic concept.

I'm sorry. I had an open mind but you closed it for me by dragging all sorts of frivolous claims into the discussion.

Bro, I have not said anything that is hard to believe. You made assumptions that our Holy Prophet (pbuh) could have done this and done that. I am merely showing facts. Did my whole argument rest on the number “26”? infact it didn’t. Maybe you should read all the other information I posted about why IRON is so important to us.
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      06-02-2007, 02:12 PM   #194
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So which version of the quran do I need to purchase to have the "correct" one that hasn't been mis-translated? Unfortunately I dod not read or speak Arabic. It's a tough question, one I can not answer for my own religious text, the bible, but I have repeatedly professed my lack of confidence in it's literal translations. Until I learn Hebrew/Greek/Areamaic (sp?) or sit before God in judgement, I will be stuck with FAITH.
From what I have picked up, in general discussions/readings, the quran and bible are not the end-all be-all of religious text/traditions. I'm at a loss for the name of the oral tradition for aborigines, but they seem to have some pretty good explanations for creation of the world. Incas and Mayans FAR outperform in certain celestial areas of creationism, but they seem to revolve around the number 13, which is which element?

160 derivations of a word you are attibuting to leech, that makes it even tougher to narrow down that the one you are arguing is correct.

ALL elements in the periodic table except helium and hydrogen must be created in the belly of a star by process of fission or fusion, if I remember my chemistry correctly, so iron is not so unique.
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      06-02-2007, 02:25 PM   #195
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> Which one appears to my intellect to be the intended meaning, for humans to have been created from a blood clot or for them to have been created from leeches?

The clincher for me is that the greek, around the same time, thought that life started as clotted blood.

So here I'm thinking we have the Greeks, in ~600AD that say clotted blood, and we have Muhammed, in ~600AD that said clotted blood. That makes perfect sense. But now you claim Muhammed said leech while everyone else around him said clotted blood.

> I am merely showing facts.

No, you are showing me facts - words black on white - and every time I go check authorized translations of the Quran for your verses, they say something completely different (and actually make sense) - or they say the same but you tell my I'm interpreting them wrong.
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      06-02-2007, 02:44 PM   #196
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So here I'm thinking we have the Greeks, in ~600AD that say clotted blood, and we have Muhammed, in ~600AD that said clotted blood. That makes perfect sense. But now you claim Muhammed said leech while everyone else around him said clotted blood.

Bro I do see what you mean but it doesnt end there. The Quran describes other stages of pregnancies too, and they are 100% correct.

No, you are showing me facts - words black on white - and every time I go check authorized translations of the Quran for your verses, they say something completely different (and actually make sense) - or they say the same but you tell my I'm interpreting them wrong.

Basically the problem is, the translators do not know everything. They might know how to translate, BUT if they have no knowledge about what the Quran is talking about, they are likely to interpret it wrongly. I mean that's why there are people who have studied the Quran completely and discovered all them miracles I have posted. Look at all them documents I posted, some of them are actually very very clear and cannot be argued with...

Another problem is that as soon as you translate Arabic you lose its correct translation. Therefore in English it sounds a little funny, but most of the time it's fine and you get the general idea pretty easily, but when it's science - the translation needs to be 100%
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      06-02-2007, 03:28 PM   #197
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So which version of the quran do I need to purchase to have the "correct" one that hasn't been mis-translated?

Look at what I just said to Max. It's fairly easy to understand what Allah says about our way of life. But sometimes things about science can be a little hard to understand. Why dont you check out some of the documents I posted. They cover all the aspects of science in the Quran. Then if you want more stuff, I can give you links to videos etc.

160 derivations of a word you are attibuting to leech, that makes it even tougher to narrow down that the one you are arguing is correct.

But it doesnt end there. Look at the other stages in pregnancy that are described. All the way down to when the embryo turns into a fetus and gains hearing and feeling and understanding etc.

so iron is not so unique.

Well, from what I can see it appears to be quite unique. Take a look at this bro:

In his book Nature's Destiny, the well-known microbiologist Michael Denton emphasizes the importance of iron:

Of all the metals there is none more essential to life than iron. It is the accumulation of iron in the center of a star which triggers a supernova explosion and the subsequent scattering of the vital atoms of life throughout the cosmos. It was the drawing by gravity of iron atoms to the center of the primeval earth that generated the heat which caused the initial chemical differentiation of the earth, the outgassing of the early atmosphere, and ultimately the formation of the hydrosphere. It is molten iron in the center of the earth which, acting like a gigantic dynamo, generates the earth's magnetic field, which in turn creates the Van Allen radiation belts that shield the earth's surface from destructive high-energy-penetrating cosmic radiation and preserve the crucial ozone layer from cosmic ray destruction…

Without the iron atom, there would be no carbon-based life in the cosmos; no supernovae, no heating of the primitive earth, no atmosphere or hydrosphere. There would be no protective magnetic field, no Van Allen radiation belts, no ozone layer, no metal to make hemoglobin [in human blood], no metal to tame the reactivity of oxygen, and no oxidative metabolism.
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      06-03-2007, 01:04 PM   #198
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I have not had chance to read all the links you have provided, you are much more prolific than I in that regard. I can't quote you author/chapter/verse from the bible, I don't beleive it to be that important, as long as I get the general meaning. The bible was more alegorical anyways, I'm not on any quest for the holy grail, just for a ticket to the upper deck on the other side.

>Without the iron atom, there would be no carbon-based life in the cosmos; no supernovae, no heating of the primitive earth, no atmosphere or hydrosphere.

I'm no expert, but would have to strongly disagree with the above. Iron is not the cause of supernovae. In the vast majority of stars, (if I remember college from 20 years ago correctly) supernovae occur when whatever element is currently providing the star's fusion material (several different elements can be the fuel, and stars change from one to the other as they mature) can no longer support the gravity of the rest of the mass of the star, it collapses violently and then spews its contents into space. The rest are typically binary star systems where a white dwarf sucks material off the twin until it reaches it's Chan-something-or-other limit and then the nuclear reactor goes Chernobyl. The two are further categorized as Type I or II by the presence/abscense of hydrogen. I can't recall iron every being a "requirement" or "cause" of supernova.

This is not to say the quran is not full of many "truths" but I would have to say that it is not necessarily divine because of it's scientific explanations of the world around us.

I'm a mathematician by training, and you knwo what they say about lies: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics" So the "numerology" of the alphabet and the words and letter = 13 = atomic number of iron just doesn't wash with me, since iron in the english language has a sum of 55, and a cardinal of 1. Now, if iron, in any language, came up with a match to it's atomic number, I *might* consider it a divine element. To me, thy all are, because without the sum total of all the elements, we wouldn't be here.

Why do you keep claiming that Mohammed (pbuh, out of respect) is uneducated? Do you mean formal schooling like a college? 1400 years ago it was not uncommon for most to not attend public school. But lack of formal education in a school setting does not equal uneducated. What percentage of the population could even sign their name at that time? But again, that does not mean uneducated. I don't think Jesus had a degree, but he still knew that Judah would betray him three times that night . . .

Did Mohammed (pbuh, out of respect) not host travelers in his home, not listen to tales of their travels? So we've washed, prayed the evening prayer, and are sitting down to dinner. Traveler: "did you here the Greeks say we are born from a clot of blood" Mohammed (pbuh, out of respect): "No, I hadn't heard that yet. hmmmm" Didn't Mohammed (pbuh, out of respect) become somewhat of a celebrity at one point during his life, such that he would have traveling guests from all over the known world at dinner each night. I'd say that would be an EXCELLENT education.


I state all of this with the utmost
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