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      05-21-2007, 04:19 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal335i View Post
You shouldnt call him a terrorist.
We didn't, it was corrected to Tyrant.. is that better for you?
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      05-21-2007, 04:23 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Badmaash View Post
We didn't, it was corrected to Tyrant.. is that better for you?
Well I guess you could say Tyrant...The only reason I said terrorist was because he is a direct cause of deaths. I mean Osama Bin laden does run around killing people but he is the direct CAUSE of it...
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      05-21-2007, 04:24 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
Well I guess you could say Tyrant...The only reason I said terrorist was because he is a direct cause of deaths. I mean Osama Bin laden does run around killing people but he is the direct CAUSE of it...
True dat... he gives the orders
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      05-22-2007, 06:08 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Badmaash View Post
And I dont know what mosque you went to, Go see how other religions spread if you want a horror story.
Yeah bro your absolutely right, I mean this is just one example, look at these hindus burning our sacred Quran. Muslims are not the only extremists, but we are always labelled as extremists. Even when we dont associate ourselves with terrorists we are accused of not condeming terrorists enough....
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      05-22-2007, 06:30 AM   #71
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I thought I would post this for you Max, This is another example of something truly amazing in Islam. There are lots of different examples, infact I even had to cut the article above down for you since there were lots of examples but they were mostly in Arabic and only muslims would really see the significance of them…

“Very interesting findings of Dr. Tariq Al Swaidan might grasp your attention:

Dr. Tariq l Swaidan discovered some verses in the Holy Qur'an That mention one thing is equal to another, i.e. men are equal to women. Although this makes sense grammatically, the astonishing fact is that the number of times the word man appears in the Holy Qur'an is 24 and number of times the word woman appears is also 24, therefore not only is this phrase correct in the grammatical sense but also true mathematically, i.e. 24 = 24. Upon further analysis of various verses, he discovered that this is consistent throughout the whole Holy Qur'an where it says one thing is like another.

See below for astonishing result of the words mentioned number of times in Arabic Holy Qur'an:

Salat is mentioned 5 times (Salat means prayer and we Muslims pray 5 times daily)
Month is mentioned 12 times (there are 12 months in a year)
Day appears 365 times in the text (there are 365 days in a year)

Sea is mentioned 32 times and Land is mentioned 13 times
Sea + land = 32+ 13= 45
Sea = 32/45*100 = 71.11111111%
Land = 13/45*100 = 28.88888889%
Sea + Land = 100.00%
Modern science has only recently proven that the covers 71.111% of the earth, while the land covers 28.889%. Is this a coincidence? Question is that who taught Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) all this?”
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      05-22-2007, 06:38 AM   #72
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Heres a few others:
(You can find more through http://www.miraclesofislam.com/ and on google)
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      05-22-2007, 09:12 AM   #73
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HKS786 - I got to give you credit bro, you got Islam in your heart. I wish there were more brothers like you, peaceful and full of belief.

Max, I think my brother HKS is trying to point out that we have just as many reasons why we believe that you have not to believe.
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      05-22-2007, 09:57 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badmaash View Post
HKS786 - I got to give you credit bro, you got Islam in your heart. I wish there were more brothers like you, peaceful and full of belief.

Max, I think my brother HKS is trying to point out that we have just as many reasons why we believe that you have not to believe.
Thnx bro, i just dont think responding to non-muslims with verbal abuse would do me any good, if anything it would give them more reason to hate us or see us to be animals, which I dont want them to think !
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      05-22-2007, 12:25 PM   #75
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> The only reason I said terrorist was because he is a direct cause of deaths.

No, every person has a choice. If your (spiritual) leader tells you to go out and kill someone and you do, that makes you the terrorist, not your (spiritual) leader.

> Modern science has only recently proven that the covers 71.111% of the earth, while the land covers 28.889%

Eeh, ok. So what happens when the sea level rises due to global warming and that becomes, say, 71.3%?

What does the Quran say about global warming?

Anyways, NASA says water covers 361,740,000 square km of the earth, which is 70.9%

That's going to go up in the future, so maybe Allah - in his infinite wisdom - accounted for global warming.

> I completely understand you, right now, the obstacle between us is that you do no believe in god and I do...

I wouldn't call it an obstacle.

While you where learning how to be a good muslim (or christian for those lurking), I was learning how this universe works.

So now I see the story of creation and I know Adam cannot have been first. Eve must have been first.

Assuming for a second he exists, God does not play dice with the universe and, by his rules, it is not possible to create a woman from a man.

But it *is* possible to create a man from a woman.

Someone in another thread told me that 'rib' was a poor translation of the original hebrew word which meant something along the lines of a curvature, which he understood to be DNA.

That would make sense: You can take DNA from a woman, chop off a little piece of one of the XX chromosomes to make XY and that would be a man.

You cannot do the reverse because you're missing a vital part to complete woman. Having god break his own rules and *ADD* something to what he took from man has significant implications.

But if holy scripture gets something as fundamental as that wrong, then the whole thing is suspect.

Religion being at odds with itself and with the observable realities is the obstacle.

Though I'll give you that in that sense, Islam is not as schizophrenic as Christianity.

> look at these hindus burning our sacred Quran.

Here's an alternative:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sai_Baba_of_Shirdi
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      05-22-2007, 01:24 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_! View Post
>
Eeh, ok. So what happens when the sea level rises due to global warming and that becomes, say, 71.3%?


What does the Quran say about global warming?

Anyways, NASA says water covers 361,740,000 square km of the earth, which is 70.9%

That's going to go up in the future, so maybe Allah - in his infinite wisdom - accounted for global warming.
Remember, Islam calls for the world to end sometime in the future. We will see what happens. The earth is a system, ocean water is evaporated into the air and comes back down as rain. The cycle goes on and on. If perhaps there is a day where the level of water is so high that the system cannot continue to function in balance.. then who knows what will happen. There have also been times where water has been more than 70 some percent, for instance the floods during the time of Noah.

And those NASA guys.. they get things right all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_! View Post
>
While you where learning how to be a good muslim (or christian for those lurking), I was learning how this universe works.
Being a good muslim includes learning about the world and universe around you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_! View Post
>
That would make sense: You can take DNA from a woman, chop off a little piece of one of the XX chromosomes to make XY and that would be a man.
You make it sound very easy, to create a human. It cannot be done.
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      05-22-2007, 01:44 PM   #77
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No, every person has a choice. If your (spiritual) leader tells you to go out and kill someone and you do, that makes you the terrorist, not your (spiritual) leader.

Not true, look at it this way. If your leader has a certain authority then you are forced to take part in what they instruct you to do, for example, imagine if an American troop refused to go to Iraq to be part of the war, do you actually think that it would be left at that? Of course not, to be a terrorist you do not have to PHYSICALLY.


So now I see the story of creation and I know Adam cannot have been first. Eve must have been first.

Muslims are Christians would agree that one of God's most important attribute is that he can do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING he wants. In the Quran Allah says that he merely says "be" and it is. If you would like, I can tell you the full Islamic version of how human beings came to exist on Earth...

What does the Quran say about global warming?

"Do they not see that We gradually reduce the land from its sides?"

{Al-Quran 21:44 }


Explanation

In the above verse Allah is informing us about the reduction of the outer layers of the earth/land. Earth can be reduce in three ways:

1. Matter is reducing from the outer layers of earth.

2. Due to melting of ice in the polar regions, water increases in ocean and land decreases.

3. Reduction at poles.



Reduction of Matter

Professor Keller, who is a geologist, says the Earth also LOSES mass. All the time, we're losing light elements, mostly hydrogen, from the atmosphere.

Another way the Earth loses mass, says Professor Keller, is through radioactive decay. In case you didn't know it, the Earth's interior is peppered (introduce) with radioactive elements such as uranium. Radioactivity is the decay, or gradual disintegration, of the nuclei of radioactive isotopes. Isotopes are versions of elements that have the same number of protons as the regular element, but different numbers of neutrons.


As these radioactive elements decay, they give off heat (called RADIOGENIC heat). In fact, about four percent of the heat at the Earth's surface comes from inside it! In the process of releasing this energy, the elements also lose mass. (1)


Melting of ice in the polar regions

Global sea level rise is caused by two factors. One is the delivery of water to the ocean as land ice melts, such as mountain glaciers and polar icecaps.

The second factor is the thermal expansion of water within the oceans. As the temperature of the waters in the oceans rises and the seas become less dense, they will spread, occupying more surface area on the planet. Increased temperature will accelerate the rate of sea level rise. (2)

Because sea level is rising thus the land of the earth is decreasing.


Reduction at poles

Standing on Earth's surface can not see the small changes in Earth's shape but researchers have been watching the equator shrink (reduce in size) slowly over the past few decades with satellites, a process that they believe has been going on since the last ice age 18,000 years ago. Since the ice age, glaciers at the poles have been melting slowly as global temperatures warm, allowing magma under Earth's crust to move towards the poles once the heavy weight of ice was no longer squashing them. This allowed the equator to shrink (reduce in size) as the molten rock (magma) moved away.


For the past four years, however, Earth has been doing something quite different. Researchers at Raytheon and NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center have been watching the equator grow larger. (3)

So when the equatorial diameter of the Earth expands under the effect of the force, thus it looses at the poles.

Conclusion

After much progress in science we observed the reduction of earth in many ways. Think who told Mohammad (SAW) about this fact?
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      05-22-2007, 01:56 PM   #78
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And those NASA guys.. they get things right all the time.

Yeah, while I was studying physics I learned about uncertainties and let me tell you that the equipment we use to measure things and scales we create all have errors in them, therefore anything the N.A.S.A calculates is going to have some "uncertainty" value in it, and also look at the quote I gave from the Quran about global warming
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      05-22-2007, 02:01 PM   #79
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Being a good muslim includes learning about the world and universe around you.

That is right, I did say that we did not need to know about it though, I just meant that we do not need to know about every little detail, but our Quran does tell us about the Sun, the Moon, the Earth etc. so Yeah we do know quite a lot about the universe and we know about how humans came to exist (Adam and Eve - Peace be upon them), and we know about global warming if you look at the info I posted
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      05-22-2007, 02:18 PM   #80
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This is the website I found all the information about global warming from:
http://www.geocities.com/thetruebook/

It has many other things, it explains things like fission in physics, and also mentions that Allah preserved Phaorohs body for people to see that Allah can punish people, of course we muslims know this but here is some proof for people that do not know. After reading everything on the website, ask yourself how our Holy Propthet Muhammed (PBUH) can know ALL of this? we know that he was illiterate and was not educated, so ask yourself where he got ALL of this knowledge? obviously from Allah
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      05-22-2007, 02:52 PM   #81
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> If your leader has a certain authority then you are forced to take part in what they instruct you to do.

No such thing. You can always choose to die yourself (by your own hand or theirs) instead.
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      05-22-2007, 03:16 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badmaash View Post
We didn't, it was corrected to Tyrant.. is that better for you?
Yeah it is. No need to get all religion crazy on a forum. Im Israeli. I dont even want to get into it.
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      05-22-2007, 03:33 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by SoCal335i View Post
Yeah it is. No need to get all religion crazy on a forum. Im Israeli. I dont even want to get into it.
no problems brother, governments and politcal groups do things that cause problems, but its no reason why we can't get along.

You've got a nice car

and maybe thats something that we can have in common, and be cool and co-exist peacefully.
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      05-22-2007, 03:54 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_! View Post
> If your leader has a certain authority then you are forced to take part in what they instruct you to do.

No such thing. You can always choose to die yourself (by your own hand or theirs) instead.
Yes but are people going to see this choice or feel they have it? of course not. They will feel pressured and "terrorised" into commiting the acts as they know the consequence of not following orders from leaders, and in turn the victims of the terrorists acts also feel "terrorised". Therefore, I would call Osama Bin Laden a terrorist, but I would also label Bush and Blair the same.

And what do you think of the evidence about global warming I gave from the Quran? did you visit the website I gave you? I hope it answers your question from an Islamic point of view
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      05-23-2007, 02:16 AM   #85
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To Max:

I looked through the website, its very interesting, infact I even found the proof that we were made from Adam and Eve (peace be upon them). As muslims we believe we come from Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) and Allah created them from clay. Heres some proof from the Quran:

The Quran said:

"We have created man from a 'sulalah' (embodiment) of clay"

{Al-Quran 23:12}



Today, when human tissue is analyzed, it is found to contain exactly the same eighteen most abundant elements in the earth's crust.

Elements found in the Human tissue:

Oxygen, Silicon, Aluminum, Iron, Calcium, Sodium, Potassium, Magnesium, Hydrogen, Chlorine, Iodine, Manganese, Phosphorous, Lead, Copper, Silver, Carbon and Zinc.

Elements found in the Earth Crust:

The elements that are most abundant on Earth vary from those that are most abundant in the universe. Forty-six percent of the Earth's mass is from oxygen. Silicon is the second most abundant element, constituting about 28 percent of the Earth's crust, followed by aluminum, iron, calcium, sodium, potassium, and magnesium. These elements together comprise about 98.5 percent of the Earth's crust. (1)

The fact that we are created from clay is indeed mentioned in the Scripture preceding the Quran, however, it is the word 'sulalah' which literally means (an active representative sample) that includes the biological fact that coincides with modern knowledge.
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      05-23-2007, 11:38 AM   #86
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> And what do you think of the evidence about global warming I gave from the Quran?

Open to interpretation. You give several plausible explanations, which means you don't know forsure exactly what is meant either.

> Oxygen, Silicon, Aluminum, Iron, Calcium, Sodium, Potassium, Magnesium, Hydrogen, Chlorine, Iodine, Manganese, Phosphorous, Lead, Copper, Silver, Carbon and Zinc.

In some people, you can also find Polonium...

Did Muhammed mention who created Allah? What Allah's origin is?
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      05-23-2007, 12:43 PM   #87
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Open to interpretation. You give several plausible explanations, which means you don't know forsure exactly what is meant either.

No, if you read it carefully it says "Earth can be reduce in three ways" but the Quran only says the land is "reduced" obviously that covers ALL 3 methods and more if they are undiscovered.

In some people, you can also find Polonium...

Who is to say that Polonuim is not in the Earth's crust too? we are not experts, we may have advanced in technology greatly, but we are not experts in knowing everything.

Did Muhammed mention who created Allah? What Allah's origin is?

Yes our holy propthet did speak of who created Allah. We muslims understand that Allah has existed since the beginning of time. Our human minds cannot understand that since we tend to believe everything has a beginning and an end. However, Allah is one, has no partners or creaters. The first belief of a muslim is "The is no god but Allah and Muhammed (pbuh) is his messenger"

As a side note, may I ask you if you find the evidence from the Quran interesting at all? do you not think it is amazing how many different aspects it looks at whereas books like the bible have been changed by many people over the years. Have you looked at the website? It has SO much information about science and how the Quran is full of science aswell as religious beliefs...
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      05-23-2007, 02:13 PM   #88
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> As a side note, may I ask you if you find the evidence from the Quran interesting at all?

I find the passion with which you talk about it interesting.

I think it's unlikely I'll ever become a muslim though.

> Have you looked at the website?

Yes, but the images — which I presume contain the content you talk about — don't load.
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