BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Politics/Religion
 
GT Haus
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-23-2006, 10:09 PM   #1
CMD
Guest
 
Drives:

Posts: n/a
ABC's 'The Path to 9/11' Is Outstanding

by Govindini Murty

Posted Aug 22, 2006

I recently attended an advance screening of ABC’s outstanding, epic miniseries "The Path to 9/11" (airing this September 10-11), and I came away enormously impressed. Writer/producer Cyrus Nowrasteh ("Into the West"), director David Cunningham ("To End All Wars"), and the whole production team have done a magnificent job in presenting the complex events leading up to 9/11 with accuracy, fairness, and artistry.

The writing, acting, directing, editing, cinematography, and overall story-telling are first-rate. "The Path to 9/11" is fast-paced and thoroughly gripping the entire way. The five-hour miniseries (aired over two nights) is based on the 9/11 Commission report, and also on ABC News correspondent John Miller’s book, "The Cell." ABC is going to air the first three hours on Sunday, September 10, and the final two hours (which culminate in a shattering depiction of 9/11) on Monday, September 11.

Let me start by saying that "The Path to 9/11" is one of the best, most intelligent, most pro-American miniseries I've ever seen on TV, and conservatives should support it and promote it as vigorously as possible.

This is the first Hollywood production I’ve seen that honestly depicts how the Clinton administration repeatedly bungled the capture of Osama Bin Laden. One astonishing sequence in "The Path to 9/11" shows the CIA and the Northern Alliance surrounding Bin Laden’s house in Afghanistan. They're on the verge of capturing Bin Laden, but they need final approval from the Clinton administration in order to go ahead. They phone Clinton, but he and his senior staff refuse to give authorization for the capture of Bin Laden, for fear of political fall-out if the mission should go wrong and civilians are harmed. National Security Adviser Sandy Berger in essence tells the team in Afghanistan that if they want to capture Bin Laden, they'll have to go ahead and do it on their own without any official authorization. That way, their necks will be on the line - and not his. The astonished CIA agent on the ground in Afghanistan repeatedly asks Berger if this is really what the administration wants. Berger refuses to answer, and then finally just hangs up on the agent. The CIA team and the Northern Alliance, just a few feet from capturing Bin Laden, have to abandon the entire mission. Bin Laden and Al Qaeda shortly thereafter bomb the U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, killing over 225 men, women, and children, and wounding over 4000. The episode is a perfect example of Clinton-era irresponsibility and incompetence.

The miniseries also has a scene in which the CIA has crucial information identifying some of the 9/11 hijackers in advance of 9/11, but refuses to share the information with the FBI because of the “wall” put up by certain Democrat officials to prevent information sharing between government agencies. The CIA is depicted as sitting in a meeting with the FBI (with John O’Neil present), and showing the FBI surveillance photos of terrorism suspects - some of whom will later turn out to be the 9/11 hijackers. The CIA asks the FBI for help in identifying the men in the photos, but refuses to give the FBI any of the information they have on who the men are. John O’Neil protests that it’s impossible for the FBI to help the CIA identify the men if they won’t provide any information whatsoever on them. When O’Neil tells the FBI to keep the photos so they can at least work on them, the CIA becomes hostile to O’Neil and takes the photos back. Tragically, John O’Neil himself will later die in the 9/11 attacks, in part because agencies like the CIA refused to share crucial information like this. Scenes like these really challenge the prevailing liberal media and Hollywood mindset by showing that the Patriot Act's information-sharing and surveillance provisions are crucial to the safety of this country, and that political correctness and bureaucratic inefficiency are Islamic terrorism’s greatest friend.

The acting is also excellent in "The Path to 9/11." Harvey Keitel is strong, sympathetic, and quirky as FBI agent John O’Neil, and Donnie Wahlberg is also sympathetic and believable as CIA agent “Kirk.” The standouts though are the wonderful South Asian and Middle Eastern actors who play both the heroes who help the U.S., and the terrorists out to destroy it. The actor playing Ishtiak, the Pakistani informant who helps the CIA capture Ramzi Youssef, is terrific. Played by newcomer Prassana Puwanarajah, Ishtiak is a shy, unassuming figure who makes a very unexpected -- but very sympathetic -- hero. The Ishtiak character tells the CIA that he's helping them because he is a scholar, and morally and philosophically he does not believe in the destruction of innocent life. Ishtiak risks his life, and the life of his young wife and baby, to help the U.S. capture Ramzi Youssef and thwart his terrorist plans. The Ishtiak sequence is one of the most moving segments of the miniseries. The producers told me that the actor playing Ishtiak is actually a doctor living in London, who does theater on the side.

The actor playing Ahmed Shah Massoud (the heroic leader of the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, and one of America’s strongest allies in that area) is also an inspired piece of casting. Actor Mido Hamada looks remarkably like Massoud, and is highly effective at playing the noble and charismatic leader. The producers informed me that Hamada, who is quite handsome, has been the particular favorite of ladies at the advance screenings. The Al Qaeda terrorists and Taliban are also very well cast. The actors playing Ramzi Youssef (Nabil Elouhabi of "Eastenders"), Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (Michael Benyaer of "24"), and Mohammed Atta (Martin Brody) do a fine job portraying characters who are three dimensional and non-stereotypical in their villainy.

"The Path to 9/11" starts with the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993, and covers the international terrorist conspiracy that unfolded over the next eight years and led to 9/11. The miniseries is shocking for taking a pro-American, anti-terrorist approach that is all too lacking in Hollywood’s depictions of the War on Terror ("Syriana," "Fahrenheit 9/11," and "V for Vendetta" anyone?). At a time when the resolve of this country in fighting the War on Terror seems to be flagging, "The Path to 9/11" - much more than Oliver Stone’s "World Trade Center" - will remind the nation why we’re in this war. "The Path to 9/11" provides the context and the history that "World Trade Center" misses. FrontPage Magazine ran an excellent interview recently with writer/producer Cyrus Nowrasteh (who spoke at the 2005 Liberty Film Festival). This quote from Cyrus will make clear why I’m so excited about this miniseries:

"Nowrasteh: This miniseries is not just about the tragedy and events of 9/11, it dramatizes “how we got there” going back 8 years to the first attack on the WTC and dealing with the Al Qaeda strikes against U.S. embassies and forces in the 90s, the political lead-up, the hatching of the terrorist plots, etc. We see the heroes on the ground, like FBI agent John O’Neill and others, who after the Œ93 attack felt sure that the terrorists would strike the WTC again. It also dramatizes the frequent opportunities the Administration had in the 90s to stop Bin Laden in his tracks ‹ but lacked the will to do so. We also reveal the day-by-day lead-up of clues and opportunities in 2001 right up to the day of the 9/11 attacks. This is a terror thriller as well as a history lesson. I think people will be engaged and enlightened.

FP: When you refer to the failed effort to stop Bin Laden in the 1990s, this was obviously the time of Bill Clinton. How much do you think his administration made us vulnerable to 9/11?

Nowrasteh: The 9/11 report details the Clinton’s administration’s response ‹ or lack of response ‹ to Al Qaeda and how this emboldened Bin Laden to keep attacking American interests. The worst example is the response to the October, 2000 attack on the U.S.S. Cole in Yemen where 17 American sailors were killed. There simply was no response. Nothing."

Fortunately, Nowrasteh and the producers of this miniseries have gone out on a limb to honestly and fairly depict how Clinton-era inaction, political correctness, and bureaucratic inefficiency allowed the 9/11 conspiracy to metastasize. Let me say here though that "The Path to 9/11" is not a partisan miniseries or a “conservative” miniseries. It simply presents the facts in an honest and straightforward manner (the producers have backed up every detail of the miniseries with copious amounts of research and documentation), and the facts are that for seven years, from 1993 to 2000, the Clinton administration bungled the handling of the world-wide terrorist threat. The miniseries is equally honest in depicting the Bush administration. It shows a few points where administration officials, following in the tradition of the Clinton years, do not follow certain clues about the terrorist plot as zealously as they should have. Nonetheless, "The Path to 9/11," by honestly depicting the unfolding of events over eight years, makes it clear that most of the conspiracy leading up to 9/11 was hatched during the seven years of the Clinton administration, and that since Bush was in power for only eight months when 9/11 occurred, he can hardly be blamed for the entire disaster.

"The Path to 9/11" does a tremendous job in bringing to life the complex web of international characters and organizations that lay behind the events of that tragic day. ABC has created a miniseries that is truly epic in scope - a richly textured tapestry that weaves together a fascinating array of people, places, organizations and events both here in America and around the world. I was impressed by how vivid every character was, however briefly he or she may have been on the screen - and how quickly, clearly, and economically Nowrasteh and Cunningham depicted complex events. I absolutely loved the on-location work they did, and the great character actors of every nationality that they brought together. Cyrus Nowrasteh's background as an Iranian-American seems in particular to have given him a special insight into both the Middle-Eastern and American aspects of the story. Director David Cunningham, the son of a missionary, also brings an obvious love of foreign cultures and locales to his direction. The result is an engrossing, atmospheric tale of foreign intrigue. It was fascinating to see the crowded urban slums of Pakistan where the CIA captured Ramzi Youssef, the desert fortresses of the Taliban and Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, the Manila nightclubs where the 9/11 hijackers planned their attacks, the Tanzanian locales where the embassies were blown up, the meetings of the terrorists in Spain, and the various locations across America where the conspiracy comes together.

Let me wrap up by saying that what I truly loved about "The Path to 9/11"
was the following: the honesty with which it told the story behind 9/11 with all its political ramifications; the epic scope and sweep of the story; the vivid and interesting characters of all nationalities; the great use of international locations; the terrific use of ethnic source music in tying the segments together and giving the miniseries a musical, propulsive pace (often reminding me of the musical quality of such 1940s Warner Brothers classics as "Casablanca" and "The Sea Hawk"); and the outstanding cinematography and editing (the miniseries has a great documentary-realist style that comes from director David Cunningham’s background as a documentarian). Cyrus Nowrasteh tells me that they had five cameras shooting at all times, which accounts for the great natural moments they caught between the actors, and the swift pace of the storytelling.

Overall, I thought "The Path to 9/11" was infinitely better than Oliver Stone’s "World Trade Center" (granted, Stone decided to tell a narrower story), and if this is properly marketed, ABC should have a huge hit on its hands. The problem is that I don’t see ABC marketing it at all, and I’m concerned that they’re dropping the ball on getting the word out about this show. They’ve reportedly spent more than $40 million producing "The Path to 9/11," and yet I see little advertising or promotion anywhere. Conservatives need to really step in here and spread the word via talk radio and the internet. Every American, and everyone alarmed by Islamic terrorism around the world should see this miniseries. "The Path to 9/11" should get every Emmy award and Golden Globe award out there - if Hollywood is willing to be fair and open-minded.

I’m highly encouraged by the ad that 84 Hollywood filmmakers and celebrities took out on August 17 in the Los Angeles Times denouncing Hamas and Hezbollah, and I’m thrilled by this ABC miniseries. I hope this heralds a new, saner approach on the part of Hollywood toward the world-wide problem of Islamo-fascism -- one that recognizes Islamic terrorism for what it is, and is willing to denounce it so that better things, such as democracy, civil rights, women’s rights, and free speech -- can take its place. These are issues that all conservatives and liberals can get behind, and I’m glad to see that the entertainment industry is finally, at least in these two instances, uniting for the greater good of this country and for the noble cause of democracy around the world.

Reprinted with permission from LIBERTAS.
________________________________________
Copyright © 2006 HUMAN EVENTS. All Rights Reserved.


Those of us that are interested should watch this documentary and then post our comments here!
Attached Images
File Type: pdf ABC's The Path to 9-11 Is Outstanding.pdf (26.7 KB, 127 views)
 
0
Reply With Quote
      08-23-2006, 10:15 PM   #2
pawarrant
SECDEF
 
pawarrant's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Melbourne Red 328xi Sport
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 759
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 328xi  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to pawarrant
Thanks for the info! I just went to set my DVR to record it, but I can't go that far ahead on my Comcast box.
__________________
2013 328xi Melbourne Red Metallic/Black Dakota Leather/Red Highlights Anthracite Wood Trim
Retired:2009 328ixi Sedan Montego Blue Metallic/Saddle Brown Dakota Leather Aluminum Trim
Retired: 2006 325xi Monaco Blue Metallic/Gray Dakota Leather Dark Burl Walnut Wood Trim
Retired: 2003 325xi Steel Grey Metallic/Black Leather Wood Trim

pawarrant is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-23-2006, 10:17 PM   #3
CMD
Guest
 
Drives:

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by pawarrant
Thanks for the info! I just went to set my DVR to record it, but I can't go that far ahead on my Comcast box.
I'll remind you.
 
0
Reply With Quote
      08-24-2006, 07:06 AM   #4
MrSilver
Judge Advocate General
 
MrSilver's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Buffalo, New York

Posts: 1,131
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 e92 335i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to MrSilver
I still can't watch any of the 9-11 stuff.

It is still too fresh in my mind.
__________________

'07 E92 335i "Over-Heating" and "Blowing Up" since 9-5-06
6MT, Space Gray, Gray w/ Dakota Leather, Dark Burl, ZSP, ZPP, ZCW
Comfort Access, Sirius Satellite (Howard is not optional)

'07 X3 3.0si - Black on Black, ZPP, ZCW, Step. - Wife's car

Last edited by MrSilver; 08-24-2006 at 08:41 AM.
MrSilver is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-24-2006, 11:38 AM   #5
tl_boy
Major
 
tl_boy's Avatar
 
Drives: tl
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: houston

Posts: 1,329
iTrader: (0)

i really want to see this. too bad i don't have TIVO for my local channels!
__________________

E90 Mods (work in progress): Euro Xenon Headlamps, 19" ASA AR-1's with Toyo T1R 235 fronts and 275 rears, Breyton style front spoiler, Breyton style rear spoiler, Huper Optik 40% Tint, TiAG with Black 'ette and Aluminum trim, Chrome grills, chrome exhaust, Hartge lowering springs, PMB Hyperwhites.
tl_boy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2006, 11:37 AM   #6
nostrum09
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: E90 325i
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ

Posts: 257
iTrader: (0)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14707869/

Seems like ABC has taken some creative liberties with this mini-series...
__________________
Current: 2008 E85 3.0i | Bright Red | Beige | Black Roof | Dark Poplar | STEP | ZPP | Navigation | Heated Seats | Premium Sound | Xenon
Current: 2006 E90 325i | Monaco Blue | Black | Aluminum | STEP | ZCW | ZPP | ZSP | iDrive | CA | Xenon | Logic7 | Sat Radio
Retired: 2003 E46 325Ci | Mystic Blue | Gray | Myrtle Wood | STEP | ZPP | ZSP | Xenon | H/K Sound
nostrum09 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2006, 11:58 AM   #7
drcain
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 04 Nissan 350z - Daytona Blue
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Woodbridge, VA

Posts: 41
iTrader: (0)

It's tivo'd so I can catch it. (I hear "No commercial breaks" eh? 2.5hrs straight each night. whew! Yeah, tivo will be very nice)

I'd take any political reviews or comments on the movie with a large grain of salt. If, for example, we could have everything recorded and shown back exactly as it happened or was said, politicians from both sides would still complain about it. "Uh, the editing makes me look bad. Uh, you didn't see the whole context".

It should be pretty interesting and worth catching first hand (since there will likely be quite a bit of talk/reviews/opinions about it).
drcain is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2006, 03:38 PM   #8
pawarrant
SECDEF
 
pawarrant's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Melbourne Red 328xi Sport
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 759
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 328xi  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to pawarrant
It seems ABC has caved to former Clinton Administration complaints that the mini-series made them look bad and edited parts of the series out to maintain the positive image of the Clinton legacy. How fitting that there another lie and political cover up by this administration.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1695492/posts
__________________
2013 328xi Melbourne Red Metallic/Black Dakota Leather/Red Highlights Anthracite Wood Trim
Retired:2009 328ixi Sedan Montego Blue Metallic/Saddle Brown Dakota Leather Aluminum Trim
Retired: 2006 325xi Monaco Blue Metallic/Gray Dakota Leather Dark Burl Walnut Wood Trim
Retired: 2003 325xi Steel Grey Metallic/Black Leather Wood Trim

pawarrant is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2006, 05:49 PM   #9
nostrum09
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: E90 325i
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ

Posts: 257
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawarrant
It seems ABC has caved to former Clinton Administration complaints that the mini-series made them look bad and edited parts of the series out to maintain the positive image of the Clinton legacy. How fitting that there another lie and political cover up by this administration.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1695492/posts
Hmmm... the MSNBC article gives quotes of people who said that certain items were false (e.g. Madeleine Albright). False statements should be corrected. If, in their false state, they make people look bad, then they have every right to demand that they be changed to be accurate.

Incidentally, that freerepublic site is SCARY! Right-wingers talking amongst themselves and blaming their woes on liberals. The section on the "Homosexual Agenda" is particulary scary... it's quite a shame that there are so many people so afraid of gay people =/
__________________
Current: 2008 E85 3.0i | Bright Red | Beige | Black Roof | Dark Poplar | STEP | ZPP | Navigation | Heated Seats | Premium Sound | Xenon
Current: 2006 E90 325i | Monaco Blue | Black | Aluminum | STEP | ZCW | ZPP | ZSP | iDrive | CA | Xenon | Logic7 | Sat Radio
Retired: 2003 E46 325Ci | Mystic Blue | Gray | Myrtle Wood | STEP | ZPP | ZSP | Xenon | H/K Sound
nostrum09 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2006, 06:59 PM   #10
pawarrant
SECDEF
 
pawarrant's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Melbourne Red 328xi Sport
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 759
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 328xi  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to pawarrant
I'm scared of Madeleine Albright yikes! Don't you think she has a motive to cover up her mistakes. She does own a consultant firm.

BTW I didn't see the Bush administration ask for parts of Fahrenheit 9-11 be edited. And hardly any of that was true.
__________________
2013 328xi Melbourne Red Metallic/Black Dakota Leather/Red Highlights Anthracite Wood Trim
Retired:2009 328ixi Sedan Montego Blue Metallic/Saddle Brown Dakota Leather Aluminum Trim
Retired: 2006 325xi Monaco Blue Metallic/Gray Dakota Leather Dark Burl Walnut Wood Trim
Retired: 2003 325xi Steel Grey Metallic/Black Leather Wood Trim

pawarrant is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2006, 07:04 AM   #11
nostrum09
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: E90 325i
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ

Posts: 257
iTrader: (0)

I think most people (myself included) saw Michael Moore's movie for what it was -- an attempt to spin things to his view. There's no need to issue a White House response to his movie because of how obviously biased it is.

The ABC mini-series makes itself look more like a documentary rather than a movie with an obvious bias (such as Fahrenheit 9/11), so I can understand why people would want to react to it if their views weren't being accurately portrayed.
__________________
Current: 2008 E85 3.0i | Bright Red | Beige | Black Roof | Dark Poplar | STEP | ZPP | Navigation | Heated Seats | Premium Sound | Xenon
Current: 2006 E90 325i | Monaco Blue | Black | Aluminum | STEP | ZCW | ZPP | ZSP | iDrive | CA | Xenon | Logic7 | Sat Radio
Retired: 2003 E46 325Ci | Mystic Blue | Gray | Myrtle Wood | STEP | ZPP | ZSP | Xenon | H/K Sound
nostrum09 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2006, 10:51 AM   #12
pawarrant
SECDEF
 
pawarrant's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Melbourne Red 328xi Sport
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 759
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 328xi  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to pawarrant
The ABC mini-series bashes both administrations. It shows the path to 9-11 which mostly took part during the Clinton administration. You are a naive partisan hack if you don't think there were serious errors made during the Clinton administration which led to 9-11. Anyone in the military or intelligence knows the Clinton administration was to blame a lot more than the Bush administration who was not even in office long enough to do much. We all agree bush could have done more, but your a fool to give a pass to slick Willy. The wall put up to prevent information sharing between CIA, DIA, and FBI is probably to blame more than any 1 thing and that wall was put up by Clinton. This is just another example of how liberals can't take responsibility for their failed policies.
__________________
2013 328xi Melbourne Red Metallic/Black Dakota Leather/Red Highlights Anthracite Wood Trim
Retired:2009 328ixi Sedan Montego Blue Metallic/Saddle Brown Dakota Leather Aluminum Trim
Retired: 2006 325xi Monaco Blue Metallic/Gray Dakota Leather Dark Burl Walnut Wood Trim
Retired: 2003 325xi Steel Grey Metallic/Black Leather Wood Trim

pawarrant is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2006, 11:10 AM   #13
pawarrant
SECDEF
 
pawarrant's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Melbourne Red 328xi Sport
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 759
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 328xi  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to pawarrant
Hmm, I just heard Harry Reid (who was not portrayed in this film) sent a letter to ABC threatening to "review" the status of their broadcast license if they don't take out parts of the film that are unfavorable to the Democrats. This is so sad. Imagine the outrage if Bush would try to censor a major broadcast station. The Dems are all about free speech up to the point you criticize a Democrat.
__________________
2013 328xi Melbourne Red Metallic/Black Dakota Leather/Red Highlights Anthracite Wood Trim
Retired:2009 328ixi Sedan Montego Blue Metallic/Saddle Brown Dakota Leather Aluminum Trim
Retired: 2006 325xi Monaco Blue Metallic/Gray Dakota Leather Dark Burl Walnut Wood Trim
Retired: 2003 325xi Steel Grey Metallic/Black Leather Wood Trim

pawarrant is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2006, 11:20 AM   #14
pawarrant
SECDEF
 
pawarrant's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Melbourne Red 328xi Sport
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 759
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 328xi  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to pawarrant
Quotes from Michael Scheuer who was the head of the CIA's Bin Laden Unit, and a crtic of the Bush and Clinton administration:
Scheuer said that "on 10 separate occasions his unit, codename “Alec,” provided key policymakers with information that could’ve lead to the killing or capture of Osama bin Laden. “In each of those 10 instances, the senior policymaker in charge, whether it was Sandy Berger, Richard Clarke, or George Tenet,” resisted taking action, afraid it would result in collateral damage or a backlash on the Arab street." According to Scheuer, Clarke’s story has changed in the time since.

This is one of the main points Democrats want censored from the film.
__________________
2013 328xi Melbourne Red Metallic/Black Dakota Leather/Red Highlights Anthracite Wood Trim
Retired:2009 328ixi Sedan Montego Blue Metallic/Saddle Brown Dakota Leather Aluminum Trim
Retired: 2006 325xi Monaco Blue Metallic/Gray Dakota Leather Dark Burl Walnut Wood Trim
Retired: 2003 325xi Steel Grey Metallic/Black Leather Wood Trim

pawarrant is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2006, 11:52 AM   #15
nostrum09
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: E90 325i
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ

Posts: 257
iTrader: (0)

My complaint is with the fact that ABC would have allowed this mini-series, in its original format, to be construed as a documentary with misleading or outright false situations.

I am not a partisan-hack -- I don't pretend to know what the ultimate causes of the US' woes might be. Like every single person on this forum, I can only conjecture and offer opinions.

Only people in the highest enchelons of government would be able to opine on what the causes were, and how far back they really go.

A lot of politicians, Democrat, Republican or otherwise, are probably to blame for what happened on 9/11, and it probably goes a lot further back than the Clinton administration.
__________________
Current: 2008 E85 3.0i | Bright Red | Beige | Black Roof | Dark Poplar | STEP | ZPP | Navigation | Heated Seats | Premium Sound | Xenon
Current: 2006 E90 325i | Monaco Blue | Black | Aluminum | STEP | ZCW | ZPP | ZSP | iDrive | CA | Xenon | Logic7 | Sat Radio
Retired: 2003 E46 325Ci | Mystic Blue | Gray | Myrtle Wood | STEP | ZPP | ZSP | Xenon | H/K Sound
nostrum09 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2006, 12:35 PM   #16
pawarrant
SECDEF
 
pawarrant's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Melbourne Red 328xi Sport
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 759
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 328xi  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to pawarrant
Quote:
Originally Posted by nostrum09
My complaint is with the fact that ABC would have allowed this mini-series, in its original format, to be construed as a documentary with misleading or outright false situations...
Do you complain about all the other misleading statements they air on their evening news every night, or is it just the parts bashing Clinton that offends you? You say these scenes are false, Clinton says they are false, but a lot of people from the intelligence community and even former Clinton aid and campaign manager Dick Morris says those scenes were true. Clinton has the most to lose, and has a deep history of lying, so who do you believe again?
__________________
2013 328xi Melbourne Red Metallic/Black Dakota Leather/Red Highlights Anthracite Wood Trim
Retired:2009 328ixi Sedan Montego Blue Metallic/Saddle Brown Dakota Leather Aluminum Trim
Retired: 2006 325xi Monaco Blue Metallic/Gray Dakota Leather Dark Burl Walnut Wood Trim
Retired: 2003 325xi Steel Grey Metallic/Black Leather Wood Trim

pawarrant is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2006, 02:06 PM   #17
nostrum09
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: E90 325i
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ

Posts: 257
iTrader: (0)

I find it impossible to believe virtually anything that comes out of any politician's mouth. A good number of the people who were involved in this mini-series, or who have commented on it, also have written books giving their understanding of events, so everyone (not just liberals) have something to gain it seems.

I would actually prefer to see this series pulled off the air. Firstly, it will be impossible to view this program without any bias. Conservatives and liberals alike will argue ad infinitum about what was wrong/misleading/exaggerated/etc.

Secondly, what is the point in spreading blame? It's not like is going to get anything accomplished, except waste time, money and energy.

Lastly, I argue that the US has more pressing issues to deal with. Let's concentrate on how the Bush Administration can [try to, HAHA!] fix: 1) a failed war in Iraq, 2) a faltering economy, 3) gross abuse of executive level power, 4) greater influence of the Christian-right on what should otherwise be a nation founded on the principles of separation of church and state, 5) deteriorating quality of our educational system (No Child Left Behind is an ABSOLUTE JOKE), 6) ever decreasing popularity on the world stage (sometimes doing what is right *is* doing what the international community agrees is "popular"), and 7) a nation bent on imperialistic tendencies (democracy is good for you, but we don't care if you don't want it or aren't ready for it!).

I attribute the downfall of America today not because of extremist terrorists, but because of our response TO those terrorists, and the general disregard to anything not related to Bush's political and business allies.
__________________
Current: 2008 E85 3.0i | Bright Red | Beige | Black Roof | Dark Poplar | STEP | ZPP | Navigation | Heated Seats | Premium Sound | Xenon
Current: 2006 E90 325i | Monaco Blue | Black | Aluminum | STEP | ZCW | ZPP | ZSP | iDrive | CA | Xenon | Logic7 | Sat Radio
Retired: 2003 E46 325Ci | Mystic Blue | Gray | Myrtle Wood | STEP | ZPP | ZSP | Xenon | H/K Sound
nostrum09 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2006, 02:09 PM   #18
aapriadi
Colonel
 
aapriadi's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 F30 AW 320i
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

Posts: 2,036
iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nostrum09
I find it impossible to believe virtually anything that comes out of any politician's mouth. A good number of the people who were involved in this mini-series, or who have commented on it, also have written books giving their understanding of events, so everyone (not just liberals) have something to gain it seems.

I would actually prefer to see this series pulled off the air. Firstly, it will be impossible to view this program without any bias. Conservatives and liberals alike will argue ad infinitum about what was wrong/misleading/exaggerated/etc.

Secondly, what is the point in spreading blame? It's not like is going to get anything accomplished, except waste time, money and energy.

Lastly, I argue that the US has more pressing issues to deal with. Let's concentrate on how the Bush Administration can [try to, HAHA!] fix: 1) a failed war in Iraq, 2) a faltering economy, 3) gross abuse of executive level power, 4) greater influence of the Christian-right on what should otherwise be a nation founded on the principles of separation of church and state, 5) deteriorating quality of our educational system (No Child Left Behind is an ABSOLUTE JOKE), 6) ever decreasing popularity on the world stage (sometimes doing what is right *is* doing what the international community agrees is "popular"), and 7) a nation bent on imperialistic tendencies (democracy is good for you, but we don't care if you don't want it or aren't ready for it!).

I attribute the downfall of America today not because of extremist terrorists, but because of our response TO those terrorists, and the general disregard to anything not related to Bush's political and business allies.
very well said
__________________
mod = crack
aapriadi is offline   Indonesia
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2006, 02:24 PM   #19
pawarrant
SECDEF
 
pawarrant's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Melbourne Red 328xi Sport
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 759
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 328xi  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to pawarrant
Quote:
Originally Posted by nostrum09
I find it impossible to believe virtually anything that comes out of any politician's mouth. A good number of the people who were involved in this mini-series, or who have commented on it, also have written books giving their understanding of events, so everyone (not just liberals) have something to gain it seems.

I would actually prefer to see this series pulled off the air. Firstly, it will be impossible to view this program without any bias. Conservatives and liberals alike will argue ad infinitum about what was wrong/misleading/exaggerated/etc.

Secondly, what is the point in spreading blame? It's not like is going to get anything accomplished, except waste time, money and energy.

Lastly, I argue that the US has more pressing issues to deal with. Let's concentrate on how the Bush Administration can [try to, HAHA!] fix: 1) a failed war in Iraq, 2) a faltering economy, 3) gross abuse of executive level power, 4) greater influence of the Christian-right on what should otherwise be a nation founded on the principles of separation of church and state, 5) deteriorating quality of our educational system (No Child Left Behind is an ABSOLUTE JOKE), 6) ever decreasing popularity on the world stage (sometimes doing what is right *is* doing what the international community agrees is "popular"), and 7) a nation bent on imperialistic tendencies (democracy is good for you, but we don't care if you don't want it or aren't ready for it!).

I attribute the downfall of America today not because of extremist terrorists, but because of our response TO those terrorists, and the general disregard to anything not related to Bush's political and business allies.
I feel bad for you hatred towards your own country, although I do have 2 solutions to all of those problems. Win an election or move. Thank God that your views are still in the minority of our country and you won't win a national election anytime soon. And as I suspected another liberal who wants to silence their critics with your wish that they just pull the show altogether. Man that really bothers the left when the only thing they have going for them, the mainstream media, criticizes them. Since you are so concerned about Bush's "gross abuse of executive level power" I am very surprised you have no problem with violating freedom of speech by threat of revoking ABC's FCC license. And you are mistaken that our nation was founded on separation of church and state. Our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and values. Nowhere in the Constitution does it mention the separation of church and state. It prohibits congress from establishing a state religion. Your beliefs only come from recent case law decisions, not what our country was founded on as you misstated. I agree our education (public) system sucks. It has sucked long before no child left behind. It sucks because of the influence of the teacher's unions. Your other comments are too bizarre for me to respond to. It is clear you have some sort of unfounded hatred towards our country who has done more good for the world than any other county in civilization.
__________________
2013 328xi Melbourne Red Metallic/Black Dakota Leather/Red Highlights Anthracite Wood Trim
Retired:2009 328ixi Sedan Montego Blue Metallic/Saddle Brown Dakota Leather Aluminum Trim
Retired: 2006 325xi Monaco Blue Metallic/Gray Dakota Leather Dark Burl Walnut Wood Trim
Retired: 2003 325xi Steel Grey Metallic/Black Leather Wood Trim

pawarrant is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2006, 02:28 PM   #20
pawarrant
SECDEF
 
pawarrant's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Melbourne Red 328xi Sport
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 759
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 328xi  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to pawarrant
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBob
You must be one of the 10 people who listen to Air America.
Or one of the 8 who voted for Dennis Kucinich.
__________________
2013 328xi Melbourne Red Metallic/Black Dakota Leather/Red Highlights Anthracite Wood Trim
Retired:2009 328ixi Sedan Montego Blue Metallic/Saddle Brown Dakota Leather Aluminum Trim
Retired: 2006 325xi Monaco Blue Metallic/Gray Dakota Leather Dark Burl Walnut Wood Trim
Retired: 2003 325xi Steel Grey Metallic/Black Leather Wood Trim

pawarrant is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2006, 03:02 PM   #21
nostrum09
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: E90 325i
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NJ

Posts: 257
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawarrant
I feel bad for you hatred towards your own country, although I do have 2 solutions to all of those problems. Win an election or move. Thank God that your views are still in the minority of our country and you won't win a national election anytime soon. And as I suspected another liberal who wants to silence their critics with your wish that they just pull the show altogether. Man that really bothers the left when the only thing they have going for them, the mainstream media, criticizes them. Since you are so concerned about Bush's "gross abuse of executive level power" I am very surprised you have no problem with violating freedom of speech by threat of revoking ABC's FCC license. And you are mistaken that our nation was founded on separation of church and state. Our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and values. Nowhere in the Constitution does it mention the separation of church and state. It prohibits congress from establishing a state religion. Your beliefs only come from recent case law decisions, not what our country was founded on as you misstated. I agree our education (public) system sucks. It has sucked long before no child left behind. It sucks because of the influence of the teacher's unions. Your other comments are too bizarre for me to respond to. It is clear you have some sort of unfounded hatred towards our country who has done more good for the world than any other county in civilization.
"Your comments are too bizarre for me to respond to." Translation: "I can't think of anything to say about them, so I will make it seem like you don't know what you're talking about."

The problem with a conservative point of view is its inability to recognize anything other than the status quo as being "good."

Look, I was born in the US (have lived in NJ all my life, actually). I harbor no resentment towards the US. The US is a nation made up of millions of people of differing beliefs, viewpoints, political affiliations, etc. In fact, it's this freedom [to have independent beliefs] which makes the US the robust nation that it is today. It always amazes me when conservatives claim that liberals "hate the US" and that they should "move to another country" just because someone says that the nation is not as strong or as good as it could be. Translation (of the conservatives): "We support your right to have an opinion -- as long as that opinion agrees with ours. Otherwise, get out, you leftist, flag-burning, equal-rights demanding hippie!"

With respect to your claims of Harry Reid threatening to pull ABC's FCC license, I am unable to find any support for this. Please cite a source. As it stands now, I always viewed the FCC as yet another extension of the Christian-right (e.g. increased indecency fines, censorship of terrestrial based radio, and the desire to censor paid mediums, such as cable TV and satellite radio).

As for separation of church and state, you appear to be correct -- I made a mistake. I should have stated it as: "greater influence of the Chrstian-right on matters that involve their religious beliefs and how they want to blindly apply them to all people of the US - even if their own morals and beliefs system otherwise disagrees."

As I said before, I don't have unfounded hatred towards the US (I don't have well-founded hatred either!). I have a problem with the severly misguided policies of the Bush Administration. I also have a problem with people who think that the US is perfect the way it is, and no changes are needed. Doing good in the past DOES NOT equal doing good in the present or doing good in the future.
__________________
Current: 2008 E85 3.0i | Bright Red | Beige | Black Roof | Dark Poplar | STEP | ZPP | Navigation | Heated Seats | Premium Sound | Xenon
Current: 2006 E90 325i | Monaco Blue | Black | Aluminum | STEP | ZCW | ZPP | ZSP | iDrive | CA | Xenon | Logic7 | Sat Radio
Retired: 2003 E46 325Ci | Mystic Blue | Gray | Myrtle Wood | STEP | ZPP | ZSP | Xenon | H/K Sound
nostrum09 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2006, 03:15 PM   #22
MrSilver
Judge Advocate General
 
MrSilver's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Buffalo, New York

Posts: 1,131
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 e92 335i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to MrSilver
We need to get Mel Gibson into this debate.
__________________

'07 E92 335i "Over-Heating" and "Blowing Up" since 9-5-06
6MT, Space Gray, Gray w/ Dakota Leather, Dark Burl, ZSP, ZPP, ZCW
Comfort Access, Sirius Satellite (Howard is not optional)

'07 X3 3.0si - Black on Black, ZPP, ZCW, Step. - Wife's car
MrSilver is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:46 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST