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      03-30-2018, 03:20 AM   #1
my_e92_is_blue
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VF620 Injectors Question

I am purchasing a VF620 and the guy told me that they were the black injectors but he sent me pictures and they are the green ones. I contacted VF and asked if they are in working order, would I be able to use them and the answer I received was very bland. They said that they were outdated and could not be used.

I'm confused on why they wouldn't work??? Can any one go into depth on this?

Also, does anyone know what the flow rate is in CC's for the stock m3 injectors as well as the green and black ones in the VF kits? Wondering how much of a difference the green ones are over stock, and if its worth "upgrading" to the black ones.

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      03-30-2018, 09:42 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my_e92_is_blue View Post
I am purchasing a VF620 and the guy told me that they were the black injectors but he sent me pictures and they are the green ones. I contacted VF and asked if they are in working order, would I be able to use them and the answer I received was very bland. They said that they were outdated and could not be used.

I'm confused on why they wouldn't work??? Can any one go into depth on this?

Also, does anyone know what the flow rate is in CC's for the stock m3 injectors as well as the green and black ones in the VF kits? Wondering how much of a difference the green ones are over stock, and if its worth "upgrading" to the black ones.

Thanks
I'd like a little more info as well.

The OEM injectors are BMW part number 13647838440 which is Bosch part number 0280158164. They are EV14 injectors, flow rate at 3 bar/min N-Heptane: 192.9g

I once emailed VF for the Bosch part number so I could buy a replacement for a failed injector. This is how they responded:

"We do not give out the injector part number as it is a proprietary part number.
There are two different version injectors.
-black body with red clip, current production $100 ea
-green body, discontinued"

Didn't say anything about not continuing to use the green ones

"Proprietary" seems like vendor bullshit since they went to the trouble of scraping the part number off the injector body. $100 is not that much of a markup over other retail sources but I cannot understand the secrecy regarding this part. What is the big deal? ESS has revealed the injector part numbers and flow rates for their S65 kits in various threads.

But to speak to your current issue - it is hard to believe that if your current green injectors are functional that they should be replaced.

Last edited by dpaul; 03-30-2018 at 10:06 AM.
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      03-30-2018, 10:02 AM   #3
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ess is now using the same black injector that vf uses. I think its pretty foolish for them to say the green is out dated and no useable when even active still uses the greens . I have the greens in my car no issue whats so ever.
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      03-30-2018, 10:18 AM   #4
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I installed a brand new ESS 625 kit a month ago. They sent me black injectors. Part # 280158124

Based on what I have read on this forum these injectors are modified by ess to fit our rails. A stock injector straight from Bosch would need a spacer. That is possibly why they want you to only run theirs.
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      03-30-2018, 10:31 AM   #5
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OP's SC kit is VF, not ESS. Same size and shape as OEM. Also don't assume VF and ESS would choose the same flow rate - they could be quite different and adjusted for in the tune
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      03-30-2018, 10:32 AM   #6
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The post above mine states ESS now uses the same black injectors as VF. Assuming that statement is true then my post is informative.

You are the first person who I have read that has ever said the injectors are the same size as oem straight from Bosch.
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      03-30-2018, 10:42 AM   #7
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use the injectors and have Benvo tune it. problem solved.

I can respect a company not wanting to divulge their part numbers. they spend a lot of R&D for their kits plus i'm sure they don't want to get future emails about a used kit with a variety of parts.
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      03-30-2018, 10:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatsleepboost View Post
The post above mine states ESS now uses the same black injectors as VF. Assuming that statement is true then my post is informative.

You are the first person who I have read that has ever said the injectors are the same size as oem straight from Bosch.
VF are the same/size shape as OEM. The OP's kit is VF

"black" injector is not terribly descriptive. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of different EV14 injector types
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      03-30-2018, 10:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrón View Post
I can respect a company not wanting to divulge their part numbers. they spend a lot of R&D for their kits plus i'm sure they don't want to get future emails about a used kit with a variety of parts.
You are quite right about them not wanting to get emails or requests for support from folks who buy used kits. Whether to respect that attitude or not is another issue.
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      03-30-2018, 10:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
VF are the same/size shape as OEM. The OP's kit is VF

"black" injector is not terribly descriptive. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of different EV14 injector types
What you are saying makes properstyles statement wrong then. I was going off of his and adding my information. So sorry I tried to help someone.
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      03-30-2018, 10:51 AM   #11
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I'll see if I have a picture of a recent kit install. the black injectors do no have the old machine short look that the older white giants did. they look just the same as the factory injectors to the point we question if the right injector was even sent.
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      03-30-2018, 10:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatsleepboost View Post
What you are saying makes properstyles statement wrong then. I was going off of his and adding my information. So sorry I tried to help someone.
We would all be more helpful if we read more carefully and wrote more carefully. That certainly includes me
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      03-30-2018, 10:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
You are quite right about them not wanting to get emails or requests for support from folks who buy used kits. Whether to respect that attitude or not is another issue.
it's a liability and no income/hr. instead of offering the part number, they are offering the part for sale.

by answering emails and calls about a kit they didn't sell (used) they are spending time and not making any money on that time. a good company would offer customer service and advice and reap the rewards by word of mouth recommendations. VF doesn't choose that business practice. in my opinion it's more about liability. "you told me part number xxx would work and now my engine blew up".
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      03-30-2018, 10:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrón View Post
it's a liability and no income/hr. instead of offering the part number, they are offering the part for sale.

by answering emails and calls about a kit they didn't sell (used) they are spending time and not making any money on that time. a good company would offer customer service and advice and reap the rewards by word of mouth recommendations. VF doesn't choose that business practice. in my opinion it's more about liability. "you told me part number xxx would work and now my engine blew up".
You may be right. I'm not sure how publishing a part number increases the vendor's liability but anything is possible in our exuberantly litigious society

As a final note, I am not adverse to a reasonable mark up on the replacement part. $100 is a fair ask
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      03-30-2018, 11:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
You may be right. I'm not sure how publishing a part number increases the vendor's liability but anything is possible in our exuberantly litigious society

As a final note, I am not adverse to a reasonable mark up on the replacement part. $100 is a fair ask
yeah this is something active was not known for either as they would scratch out part numbers as well to force a sell at their price for things as simple as injectors or even belts.
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      03-30-2018, 01:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eatsleepboost View Post
The post above mine states ESS now uses the same black injectors as VF. Assuming that statement is true then my post is informative.

You are the first person who I have read that has ever said the injectors are the same size as oem straight from Bosch.
VF are the same/size shape as OEM. The OP's kit is VF

"black" injector is not terribly descriptive. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of different EV14 injector types
so whats the flow rate in cc's?
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      03-30-2018, 01:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatsleepboost View Post
I installed a brand new ESS 625 kit a month ago. They sent me black injectors. Part # 280158124

Based on what I have read on this forum these injectors are modified by ess to fit our rails. A stock injector straight from Bosch would need a spacer. That is possibly why they want you to only run theirs.
So if i run a spacer like everyone seems to say that you need, i should have no problem running the green injectors? I see that BPM still tunes for the green injectors so they must still be viable. I may go through them for a tune instead of VF then.
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      03-30-2018, 01:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my_e92_is_blue View Post
So if i run a spacer like everyone seems to say that you need, i should have no problem running the green injectors? I see that BPM still tunes for the green injectors so they must still be viable. I may go through them for a tune instead of VF then.
I am not 100% sure so I will not answer that. Here is a thread that may help where green injectors and the VF kit are discussed.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ghlight=Spacer
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      03-31-2018, 12:08 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my_e92_is_blue View Post
So if i run a spacer like everyone seems to say that you need, i should have no problem running the green injectors? I see that BPM still tunes for the green injectors so they must still be viable. I may go through them for a tune instead of VF then.
If you purchase the spacers yes you can run th green injectors with a bpm tune. I can speak to this as I run that setup right now. You will need bolts that are about 5mm longer as well
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      03-31-2018, 09:22 PM   #20
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Presumably, the spacers and bolts will be included with the used supercharger you are purchasing? If they are necessary for "green" injectors then wouldn't the seller have them already?
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      03-31-2018, 09:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaul View Post
Presumably, the spacers and bolts will be included with the used supercharger you are purchasing? If they are necessary for "green" injectors then wouldn't the seller have them already?
touche. i'll just wait for the kit to arrive, then i can jump to conclusions
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      04-03-2018, 12:13 AM   #22
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Talking You can still buy the Green injectors

They changed the length of the green Injectors so now you need a spacer for the fuel rail. You can order the spacer and screw from ECStuning.com I had my mechanic friend order them for me. Here is a picture of the spacers and screws you will need with the part number on the plastic bag in the picture. Save it and pass it along. Better order it soon before they go on back order again I had to wait a few weeks for this part .
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Last edited by SHADY1; 04-03-2018 at 12:19 AM.
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