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      07-09-2009, 05:16 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by devo View Post
I don't care if it had 600 horses, I wouldn't buy a Hyundai over any BMW; call be a badge whore, I don't care.
It's your choice my friend. I would never buy an 09 323I in canada. They're good loaners and at about 300$ per month on a lease well these cars are good for baby mommas or poseurs. Let's talk as car guys would you buy a 323I or even 328I over let's say an STI or Camaro SS. Let's take my car if they bmw only had offered 128 in america I would be driving something else ...R32, GTI, civic SI, STI,370Z...the list can go on what does the 328 or 323 has to offer to a car enthusiast..high reving engines?..excitement?handling? I say none of those beside the prestige of driving an entry level Bmw. I don't consider my current car as an entry level as it is more expensive then a 328XI in canada and well it's not quite an M3 but at least it has something to offer(Brembo brakes, some performance etc). I'm not trying to get into an argument with you but I'm trying to understand how some guys are thinking over here..I think that I've done it with respect

I'm a function over form...and I don't care what people think about me... So the Genesis is way better than a 328I in my book.Again it's a matter of choice. At least it has some potential and will perform better at the track. I understand that some guys want their cars to look good while being parked at the valet or in their driveway but sorry I'm a car guy I love the smell of gas and burnt rubber. I'm buying an m3 very soon (it's a matter of weeks) I don't care what color it is or if it's an E90 or E92. The idea of being able to rev all the way up to 8300 rpm makes me smile in front of my computer right now(I would buy a taupe m3, beige, brown, pink).
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Its because a lot of BMW owners are housewives or business professionals and know little about cars other than BMW's are a status symbol in their own circles so that have to have one. But exotic car owners know cars, that's why they are willing to spend for a killer car and they know something different when they see one.
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      07-10-2009, 12:55 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Nawaaz View Post
I've sat in a Hyundai Genesis, and the steering felt so "plastic". Everything else was ok, but the steering felt horrible. In contrast, the M3's steering feels incredible, and you pay for it too.
Let me get this straight - you judged steering feel by SITTING in a car?

The Genesis is a great car IMO. I was very impressed after driving one. I never thought to compare it to an M3, though. I wouldn't call my M3's steering incredible, either, coming from a Cayman S.
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      07-10-2009, 09:08 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by carlos3679 View Post
Think of the Mitsubushi Evo 8 when it came out, everyone was crazy over it because of its perfromance, now look at it's resale value; these high performance Japanese cars' build quality sucks, the reason is aside from build quality these are cars that people tend to beat up and personalize in a very "Ricey" way. When you go to resell them or trade them in (Despite yours being in mint condition) no body wants one and you get low balled due to the stereotype that follows them...now look at an old BMW, people still go crazy for them because its a BMW; my point is, avoid the Ricey GTR and stick with your M3 simply for DEPRECIATION purposes...
In regards to depreciation, in 5 years the M3 is worth 37% of it's original purchase price. On the GTR, it's around 48%.

I admit, I was kind of astounded.
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      07-10-2009, 09:22 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by ScotyH View Post
In regards to depreciation, in 5 years the M3 is worth 37% of it's original purchase price. On the GTR, it's around 48%.

I admit, I was kind of astounded.
Doubt it, the GTR has not even been around long enough to make this claim. And you cannot gauge it based on R34s as those cars are completely different and have not been made since 2002.
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      07-10-2009, 10:49 PM   #93
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Doubt it, the GTR has not even been around long enough to make this claim. And you cannot gauge it based on R34s as those cars are completely different and have not been made since 2002.
Stats taken from Kelly Blue book projections.

They're probably better experienced to predict car values than anyone on this board, no?
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      07-11-2009, 09:31 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by ScotyH View Post
Stats taken from Kelly Blue book projections.

They're probably better experienced to predict car values than anyone on this board, no?
True KBB is fairly accurate, but then again all they are is predictions. I honestly do not believe that the GTR is the hot seller Nissan predicted it would be in America, people here who are not enthusiasts just cannot understand why anyone would pay 85-90k for a Nissan and now it seems they are just sitting at dealer lots.
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      07-11-2009, 04:07 PM   #95
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people tend to forget this.

many would pay 70+k for a chevy aka z06, why not 70+k for a gtr?
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      07-11-2009, 04:22 PM   #96
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^^^True, but the Corvette has been around since 1953 and is considered an icon here in America...I doubt 4 out of 5 average, non-car enthusiast people would be able to tell you what a Nissan GTR or Skyline is. Just an opinion, honestly, I am a fan of the GTR, however here in image concious America, more people would probably know what an M3 or Vette is over a GTR, and thus be more impressed with them. I cannot tell you how many people I have heard say they do not understand why anyone would pay that much for a Nissan, to which I kindly tell them they never will understand it lol.
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      07-11-2009, 09:01 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotyH View Post
In regards to depreciation, in 5 years the M3 is worth 37% of it's original purchase price. On the GTR, it's around 48%.

I admit, I was kind of astounded.
Personally I'd find that hard to believe.
How many people do you know (including yourself) that would buy a used GT-R in 5 years for nearly 1/2 it's original price (meaning about $40k then)?

There are certain cars I would just not buy used (unless it's less than 1 year and has only a few thousand miles on it) and the GT-R is one of them. Exceptions of course is garage queen cars that might of only been driven once or twice a month for "fun".
5 year old GT-R with say 50k miles on it....no way.
That would be like buying a used EVO. Abused most of it's life for sure.
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      07-11-2009, 10:00 PM   #98
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I've always admired the m3. Think its a great car, great balance etc... I currently own a 2010 GTR and I can tell you right now, the looks I get are incredible, It has appeal to such a wide audience that It surprises me every time. I've had a mid-aged woman in an SUV pull up to me and yell frantictly about what a beautiful car it is.. the proceeded to ask what it was. Similarly I had a group of 15 year old girls yell in shock from an SUV. Yes I also get the stereotypical teens who go nuts when they see it.

I honestly believe its the rareity of the car that draws so much attention. Everyone knows what a BMW is and what it looks like and a M3 is a 3 with some cosmetic upgrades. A GTR is a well.. a GTR, nothing on the road looks like it and so it has its appeal.

As far as the fit and finish it honestly hangs with the best! It's not italian or Audi R8 with all the carbon fiber. However, the stainless alumium, leather and awsome technology keeps it right up there.

The performance is truely stunning, and as far as handling, it's seriously on rails. The exhaust note on a GTR is truely unique, on full throttle it sounds like a small jet (whine from the turbos is awsome)

All in all, the BWM m3 is an icon in it's own right and appeals to most (including me), however with the GTR, I get performance, good gas milage, all wheel drive, can seat 4, and have a semi exclusive exotic for a fair price. I wouldnt call 85k cheap. As far as them sitting in dealers lots, what car isn't?

We have 4 zr1's sitting in our local dealership, I can't tell you how many m3's are sitting in both new and used bwm dealership. But locally 0 Gtr's are sitting at the dealership.

My point in all of this is that the M3 is a great car as is the GTR. They really don't compete with each other based on price point alone.

So either way a person chooses, M3 or a GTR, your getting a fantastic car! But to say if one is better than the other... I just don't think its a fair argument.

With all of this in mind, I see nothing the GTR lacks with regards to an m3.
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      07-12-2009, 02:18 AM   #99
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The only thing the GTR lacks are the little touches like the LED lights on the door handles, automatic headlights, auto leveling headlights, dimming mirrors, etc.
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      07-12-2009, 09:39 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
The only thing the GTR lacks are the little touches like the LED lights on the door handles, automatic headlights, auto leveling headlights, dimming mirrors, etc.
And a nice and sweet interior.

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      07-12-2009, 11:28 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by GatorBlue371 View Post
This is the only thing the M3 has on the GTR. Other than that, its pretty much trumped across the board except for minor things.


That being said I would still buy the BM. Why?


1. The GTR is faster and grips harder. But I wouldn't be at a track (you better not be either if you value your warranty) so I wouldn't have a chance to use it. Its like buying a ZR1 Corvette over a Z06 even though you don't race/use the car to its potential.

2. The M is nicer. Leaps and bounds nicer. The GTR is the sports car, the M is the grand touring car with sports car genes. The M feels better on good road, and it feels MUCH better on bad road. The interior is outfitted to the highest standard, while everything feels like it has a purpose. The GTR has a lesser quality interior (unbiased, I drive a p-car) that feels more like a toy than a great car. We all know how great the GTR is, but the interior for me doesn't do much... Esp the video game center.

3. Legacy. Why do people buy Corvettes when Vipers are just as fast? The Skyline has a great legacy, in japan. I couldn't begin to describe to you how little that means to me and most if not all of the general non enthusiast public here. My first impression of the GTR was, wow. That has got to be the most expensive rice rocket of all time, While people were lined up out the door in anticipation of a new m3. I feel I can relate more to the M3 crowd, the crowd that wants the sports car with a luxury car interior rather than the Japanese spoiler nation and their drift competitions.
================================================== =======

Gatorblue, have you been inside a Nissan GTR? Because I can tell you I have driven, sat in 4 different m's and my GTRs interior is just as nice if not a bit more functional. I guess it's all a matter of taste. I will say the ambient lights inside the BM are a + and the GTR lacks this feature.

as far as "you better not be either if you value your warranty)" This is a misconception; Nissan allows you to track your car, but not race it (provided something fails which can be attributed to racing); How do they know if you race it? They don't, but the idea that you run a certain amount of laps or drive it for a stretch of time at its maximum capacity which would indicate you are racing would validate their claim that you raced the car. You can drive it to its maximum on the track for a normal duration a few laps perhapse, but doing an indy 500 is considered racing and this is what would void your warrenty if you something goes wrong.

I never really understood the "rice rocket" mantra, bit raciest and not really sure what it implies, you don't like to hear others call German cars Nazi sled's do you?

Why can't a nice piece of engineering be appreciated for what it is? a well built, well engineered car instead of valuing a badge? I hate so say it, but a BMW is a common car, and in charlotte, nc more common than a Nissan believe it or not!

To say that the BMW is leaps and bounds nice, or that the interior of a GTR is a game console is a misguided IMHO. What says this? Because the GTR has sensors that can digitally display information about the car the bmw cant? How about the i-drive? I would argue that the metallic ball in the center is more of a game console than anything inside the GTR. The GTR has touchscreen and voice activation technology. BMW does not have touchscreen technology. So to say that it has a video game feel, i'm not really sure if this is really a knock on the car or a complement? less you don't enjoy video games or somehow the technology used for gaming makes an object less sophisticated?

Your argument about Zr1 and Z06 falls apart when you say that performance doesn't matter... Because if this was true in your case, you won't drive an M3, or a P-car you would be driving the 328i. The M is a 3 series with a v8 and some cosmetic upgrades, and for it's price point is a fantastic car. My preference would be an Audi S5 (again not the same performance as an M3) but a lot better looking and more quality interior!

As far as legacy: Nissan has been around for quite some time, and agreed the badge is not impressive, but again if your a car enthusiast who cares about the badge? If its engineered well, then it's engineered well. As far as why do people buy vettes over vipers? Easy answere, the Vette Z06 is 20k less than the Viper, the Vette has creature comforts the Viper does not have, and The vette has safty features (i.e traction control) the viper does not have. Lastly, the Vette is a high production vehicle where as the Viper is NOT! I hope your not comparing the Vette to Viper difference the same as to the M3 vs. GTR debate! It's not even the same argument.

BMW was a aerospace company that designed engines for planes, they then entered the market to create a vehicle targeted at the affluent, Nissan on the other hand came in to target the common crowd, and arguably they have done a great job at providing well built affordable cars.

Now in the scheme of things, they created Infinity to rival the BMWs Mercs and others. But is the Infinity badge less cool than the BMW badge? I see more BMW's here in charlotte, NC than camery's, accords, and fords.

I'm obviously not in the game of convincing you to change your P-car to a GTR, but I just don't understand all the hatred towards the GTR by some of the BMW members? I'm glad you guys are loyal fans, and I can honestly say BMW's make all around great vehicles, but at the end of the day they are a high production brand as is Porche as is MERC, they are not exclusive and shouldn't pretend to be.

If you want to talk exclusivity, you can talk Aston's, Maserati, Ferrari, etc..
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      07-12-2009, 12:41 PM   #102
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The GTR is a super car but it doesn't hold a candle to the M3 in the fit and finish department.
-The GTR is full of plastic and fabric whereas the bimmer has leather and wood.
-The GTR makes all kinds of weird noises and pretty much always sounds like something is coming loose (especially at idle). I'm told its just a dry sump.
-At high speed the GTR shakes like a mercury capsule reentrying earths atmosphere. I swear sheet metal will start peeling off if maintained for any length of time.

But after writing that I'd still take the Nissan over the BMW.
The M3 is too underpowered. BMW really should have bumped the bhp above 450.
As far as being a DD I'd take the Nissan if I lived in any place with snow and the BMW for more mild climates. The allwheel drive is a huge plus.
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      07-12-2009, 03:46 PM   #103
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I think we can all agree on one thing, the GTR is one of the most hated/loved cars on the planet today.

As far as the badge goes, I don't care that it's a Nissan. I bought my M for what it was, not because it was BMW.

Same goes for the GTR. I should have it in my grubby hands by Wednesday

Fit & finish is far better in the BMW. I'm not saying that the GTR is poor, I'm just stating that the BMW is better.

The Nissan has rug on the door panel for Christ's sakes. And it's horrendously noisy compared to the M. What we need to remember is that these two cars weren't meant to compete with each other.

The more I spend time on NAGTROC, the more I'm amazed at the percentage of folks there actually track their cars.

That's what the car was really meant for above anything else.
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      07-13-2009, 02:08 AM   #104
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People tend to forget that Vettes/Vipers/GT-R are not made for guys wearing pink shirts while sipping a 10$ Latte . Those cars are ugly have terrible fit and finish and offer crazy performance(on par with lambo/ferrari) at a fraction of the price. When you walk in a dealership and ask about those cars they don't talk to you about I-drive, 50 speakers stereo, 26 airbags, run flat, bmw assist or onstar they talk about lap time, 0-60 etc let's being honest if the M3 was a Toyota or Honda how many people on the board would have still bought one? I would!!! Actually I wouldn't mind driving an m3 with cloth seats and less equipement to have some more performance(less weight).If some people want to drive a luxury barge with some performance well the 650I is there. The m3 is far from what it once was(E30,E36). What about the Lotus Elise-Exige(They're expensive and have a poor fit/finish)?
That's why the M3 is more tame with each generation (Soon to be F/I)so that people won't whine about poor gas mileage and having to rev it all the way up to 8300 rpm. The M3 deserve to be driven on the track otherwise a 335I(slap some 20s along with a Vorsteiner Trunk+Hood) will do a better job as a DD. Seriously some guys here remind me of girls with their fancyness.
Different strokes for different folks
My rant
My post wasn't aimed at anyone but geeez I'd driving the fuschia M3 if I had to. This car is meant to be driven...I can't wait to open my garage door... hop in the car and shoot down to the office while listening to the amazing S65 engine note. Look,interior etc are a bonus to me and would not be deal breakers.
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Originally Posted by corneredbeast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Severious View Post
Its because a lot of BMW owners are housewives or business professionals and know little about cars other than BMW's are a status symbol in their own circles so that have to have one. But exotic car owners know cars, that's why they are willing to spend for a killer car and they know something different when they see one.

Last edited by mtla4; 07-13-2009 at 02:50 AM.
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      07-13-2009, 06:30 AM   #105
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Niether the vette, viper or GTR are ugly cars! As far as fit and finish the GTR is head and shoulders above a viper and better than the vette. I don't understand how people can say the gtr's interior is plastic? I mean I come from a maserati spyder where everything was leather. My gtr is wrapped with leather, alacantra, and hard plastics in portions of the dash, just like a BMW! The trim is aluminum similar to choice offereed by BMW! Aside the fact that it doesn't come with carbon fiber trim interior and the niffty ambient lighting the fit and finish of the car is fantastic! Sure it's not a Ferrari or lambo in appearance or judicious use of leather and carbonfiber, but niether is a BMW. So do have your reasons to no like The gtr but don't blame fit and finish or interior quality as the excuse
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      07-13-2009, 08:06 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosety2009 View Post
Niether the vette, viper or GTR are ugly cars! As far as fit and finish the GTR is head and shoulders above a viper and better than the vette. I don't understand how people can say the gtr's interior is plastic? I mean I come from a maserati spyder where everything was leather. My gtr is wrapped with leather, alacantra, and hard plastics in portions of the dash, just like a BMW! The trim is aluminum similar to choice offereed by BMW! Aside the fact that it doesn't come with carbon fiber trim interior and the niffty ambient lighting the fit and finish of the car is fantastic! Sure it's not a Ferrari or lambo in appearance or judicious use of leather and carbonfiber, but niether is a BMW. So do have your reasons to no like The gtr but don't blame fit and finish or interior quality as the excuse

You must have a special edition GTR.
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      07-13-2009, 10:24 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by 997GT3 View Post
The GTR is a super car but it doesn't hold a candle to the M3 in the fit and finish department.

-The GTR is full of plastic and fabric whereas the bimmer has leather and wood.

-The GTR makes all kinds of weird noises and pretty much always sounds like something is coming loose (especially at idle). I'm told its just a dry sump.

-At high speed the GTR shakes like a mercury capsule reentrying earths atmosphere. I swear sheet metal will start peeling off if maintained for any length of time.



But after writing that I'd still take the Nissan over the BMW.

The M3 is too underpowered. BMW really should have bumped the bhp above 450.

As far as being a DD I'd take the Nissan if I lived in any place with snow and the BMW for more mild climates. The allwheel drive is a huge plus.
I don't understand why people bother with fit and finish when they should be worry about performance, power weight ratio, gear ratio, 1/4 mile or la times etc.

997GT3 I honestly doubt that you have a GT3. You seem to worry more about wood grain, plastic quality ect when you supposedly drive a GT3 RS which comes with a fire extinguisher, a roll cage and almost no sound dampening material. A regular 911 is good for show no need to buy a 997 if you want a (nice car). Most of people on the street think that it's just a regular Porsche.
I live in Montreal so I know what is snow and who the hell would drive a GT-R in the winter? The thing has no ground clearance and a 10K accord would do a better job.
The m3 is doing fine with it's 414 hp.
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Originally Posted by corneredbeast
An engine from a Z06 Corvette. A differential from a Vespa. Damn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Severious View Post
Its because a lot of BMW owners are housewives or business professionals and know little about cars other than BMW's are a status symbol in their own circles so that have to have one. But exotic car owners know cars, that's why they are willing to spend for a killer car and they know something different when they see one.
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      07-13-2009, 10:32 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtla4 View Post
I don't understand why people bother with fit and finish when they should be worry about performance, power weight ratio, gear ratio, 1/4 mile or la times etc.

997GT3 I honestly doubt that you have a GT3 RS. You seem to worry more about wood grain, plastic quality ect when you supposedly drive a GT3 which comes with a fire extinguisher, a roll cage and almost no sound dampening material. A regular 911 is good for show no need to buy a 997 if you want a (nice car). Most of people on the street think that it's just a regular Porsche.


Did I say I drive a GT3? I do, though, have a GTR.

And what do you mean "a regular 911 is good for show no need to buy a 997"? A 997 is a 911.
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      07-13-2009, 10:45 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 997GT3 View Post
Did I say I drive a GT3? I do, though, have a GTR.
I have my doubts ...or if so maybe your dad. You seem to be more impressed with woodgrain, leather quality of plastic when you supposedly have a GT3 which is a stripped down version of the 911. You would drive your (again supposedly) GT-R in the winter. All that being said I say troll.
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Originally Posted by corneredbeast
An engine from a Z06 Corvette. A differential from a Vespa. Damn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Severious View Post
Its because a lot of BMW owners are housewives or business professionals and know little about cars other than BMW's are a status symbol in their own circles so that have to have one. But exotic car owners know cars, that's why they are willing to spend for a killer car and they know something different when they see one.
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      07-13-2009, 10:49 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtla4 View Post
I have my doubts ...or if so maybe your dad because you seem to be more impressed with woodgrain, leather quality of plastic when you supposedly have a GT3 which is a stripped down version of the 911. You would drive your (again supposedly) GT-R in the winter. All that being said I say troll.
I couldn't care less. Stick to the topic.
And yes I would drive my GTR in the winter. I did last year and it was fine.
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