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      06-17-2009, 01:10 PM   #1
Brianrg
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E90 M3 6MT vs Porsche 911 C2 S PDK

Hello All,
Ever since I saw that you tube clip of the porsche dominating the m3 I needed to see this for myself.

A friend of mine just picked up a 2009 911 C2 S PDK and we had it out today.
Here are the results;

After 5 different launches the results were fairly consistent;
The 911 pulls about a car length instantly and then adds about a half a car length through 1st gear. I had a great launch once and there was only about a car length.

My traction control was off of course but I did manage my tire spin quite well.
I had a noticeable chirp in second and then a smaller on in third.
911 was in launch mode.

After three rolling starts in second the 911's did not have the same separation, only about 1 car length until I went into third.

Okay, here is were it gets interesting though,
rolling start in second about a car length for him then I shifted into third and closed the gap and then when I sifted into 4th my M was king! Oh Ya.

I had my redemption after him having his way with me.
Closed out the day with the tightest figure eight burnout smoke show to show my true colors.

Still with would not trade my car for his.
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      06-17-2009, 01:12 PM   #2
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Interesting. Vids would be nice.
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      06-17-2009, 01:16 PM   #3
Driver72
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Since your friend "just picked up" the 911, run again when the 911 has at least 5k break in miles on it.
Since the non S 911 PDK is about equal to the M3 in acceleration (actually according to C&D's recent test the non S 911 PDK can slightly pull on an M3), the 911 S PDK when it's broken in will pull significantly more.
Porsche's need a decent amount of break in to perform best.
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      06-17-2009, 01:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
Since your friend "just picked up" the 911, run again when the 911 has at least 5k break in miles on it.
Since the non S 911 PDK is about equal to the M3 in acceleration (actually according to C&D's recent test the non S 911 PDK can slightly pull on an M3), the 911 S PDK when it's broken in will pull significantly more.
Porsche's need a decent amount of break in to perform best.
Sorry I should have mentioned that 911 had been broken in.
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      06-17-2009, 01:42 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C17MooseDriver View Post
Interesting. Vids would be nice.
Definitely vids the next opportunity.
It was spur of the moment and no camera around.
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      06-17-2009, 02:19 PM   #6
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What wheels do you have on your car??
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      06-17-2009, 03:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISFail View Post
I'm calling bs unless video
Yeah, hard to say.
M5board has a video of the 911 C2S easily pulling away from the M3.
Car and Driver did a test of the M3 DCT vs non S 911 PDK and the Porsche slightly out accelerated the M3.
Clearly then the S version would of pulled away even more.

385 hp vs 414 but the Porsche is what 400 lbs lighter.

From what I've seen M3's trap in the 111-112 mph range with a manual and 113 range with DCT.
The OLD 911 C2S with 355 hp and manual trapped around 112. That is an even race with the M3.


The new 09 911 C2S with 30 more horses and PDK I believe traps in the 115+ range.
It should slowly pull on the M3 DCT as it does below:



Run your buddy again with video.
How many miles on the Porsche?
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      06-17-2009, 03:14 PM   #8
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Vids, hard to believe because that Porsche was like a freight train
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      06-17-2009, 03:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
Yeah, hard to say.
M5board has a video of the 911 C2S easily pulling away from the M3.
Car and Driver did a test of the M3 DCT vs non S 911 PDK and the Porsche slightly out accelerated the M3.
Clearly then the S version would of pulled away even more.

385 hp vs 414 but the Porsche is what 400 lbs lighter.

From what I've seen M3's trap in the 111-112 mph range with a manual and 113 range with DCT.
The OLD 911 C2S with 355 hp and manual trapped around 112. That is an even race with the M3.


The new 09 911 C2S with 30 more horses and PDK I believe traps in the 115+ range.
It should slowly pull on the M3 DCT as it does below:



Run your buddy again with video.
How many miles on the Porsche?
Will do.
Something you have to remember is that I can pull 1 1/2 - 2 car lengths from a stock M3 in each gear. If there are non believers in my area please send me an email. i would be happy to prove.
Now with my mods at the crank I am probably nearing 480-490 ish.
Hopefully will have my car dyno'd tomorrow to have the true wheel numbers.
Not sure how many miles on the 911 but will find out.
The 911 clearly had the wholeshot but in later gears my car preformed very well.
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      06-17-2009, 03:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
What wheels do you have on your car??
Stock 19's with Michelin Pilots.
The guy driving the porsche is no rookie either.
I am new to the track and he has a tonne of experience.
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      06-17-2009, 03:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
Yeah, hard to say.
M5board has a video of the 911 C2S easily pulling away from the M3.
Car and Driver did a test of the M3 DCT vs non S 911 PDK and the Porsche slightly out accelerated the M3.
Clearly then the S version would of pulled away even more.

385 hp vs 414 but the Porsche is what 400 lbs lighter.

From what I've seen M3's trap in the 111-112 mph range with a manual and 113 range with DCT.
The OLD 911 C2S with 355 hp and manual trapped around 112. That is an even race with the M3.


The new 09 911 C2S with 30 more horses and PDK I believe traps in the 115+ range.
It should slowly pull on the M3 DCT as it does below:



Run your buddy again with video.
How many miles on the Porsche?
Just found out almost 500 miles on the 911.
Will this make much of a difference?

Last edited by Brianrg; 06-17-2009 at 03:57 PM.
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      06-17-2009, 05:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
Yeah, hard to say.
M5board has a video of the 911 C2S easily pulling away from the M3.
Car and Driver did a test of the M3 DCT vs non S 911 PDK and the Porsche slightly out accelerated the M3.
Clearly then the S version would of pulled away even more.

385 hp vs 414 but the Porsche is what 400 lbs lighter.

From what I've seen M3's trap in the 111-112 mph range with a manual and 113 range with DCT.
The OLD 911 C2S with 355 hp and manual trapped around 112. That is an even race with the M3.


The new 09 911 C2S with 30 more horses and PDK I believe traps in the 115+ range.
It should slowly pull on the M3 DCT as it does below:



Run your buddy again with video.
How many miles on the Porsche?
Now after my mods correct me if I am wrong but I think i would not fall this far back against a M5 Wagon.
I was on the track on Monday and an M6 could not pull away from me.
check this out.
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      06-17-2009, 06:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianrg View Post
Just found out almost 500 miles on the 911.
Will this make much of a difference?
Yes, 500 miles the engine is still in the infancy stage of power.

I was NOT aware your car was modded.

I thought we were talking about a stock M3 vs 911 C2S

The fact your car has mods, that explains the outcome.
Personally that puts the 911 C2 S power in an even higher light that it could jump 1 CL on you and hold that for some time considering you have gears, pulley, tune, and exhaust.

Again, that explains it. Stock C2S with PDK should trap in the 115-116 range, and your probably in the 116+ range yourself with your mods.

But keep in mind, with only 500 miles on his odometer, his car is only going to get stronger over the next 2-3k miles.
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      06-17-2009, 09:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianrg View Post
Hello All,
Ever since I saw that you tube clip of the porsche dominating the m3 I needed to see this for myself.

A friend of mine just picked up a 2009 911 C2 S PDK and we had it out today.
Here are the results;

After 5 different launches the results were fairly consistent;
The 911 pulls about a car length instantly and then adds about a half a car length through 1st gear. I had a great launch once and there was only about a car length.

My traction control was off of course but I did manage my tire spin quite well.
I had a noticeable chirp in second and then a smaller on in third.
911 was in launch mode.

After three rolling starts in second the 911's did not have the same separation, only about 1 car length until I went into third.

Okay, here is were it gets interesting though,
rolling start in second about a car length for him then I shifted into third and closed the gap and then when I sifted into 4th my M was king! Oh Ya.

I had my redemption after him having his way with me.
Closed out the day with the tightest figure eight burnout smoke show to show my true colors.

Still with would not trade my car for his.

Porsches have great launches with the engine weight just above the rear tires but with your mods Im NOT surprised at all with your results on the rolling starts.

Your car with its current mods should beat a stock M5 on rolling starts (look up DLSj5 I believe he has some good youtube vids) and look how it pulls away from the Porsche.
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      06-17-2009, 09:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
Yes, 500 miles the engine is still in the infancy stage of power.

I was NOT aware your car was modded.

I thought we were talking about a stock M3 vs 911 C2S

The fact your car has mods, that explains the outcome.
Personally that puts the 911 C2 S power in an even higher light that it could jump 1 CL on you and hold that for some time considering you have gears, pulley, tune, and exhaust.

Again, that explains it. Stock C2S with PDK should trap in the 115-116 range, and your probably in the 116+ range yourself with your mods.

But keep in mind, with only 500 miles on his odometer, his car is only going to get stronger over the next 2-3k miles.
I think once I really work on my launches it should be a little closer but I can't imaging ever being ahead 60 ft.

I should have mentioned the mods in the first post.
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      06-17-2009, 09:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Montreal View Post
Porsches have great launches with the engine weight just above the rear tires but with your mods Im NOT surprised at all with your results on the rolling starts.

Your car with its current mods should beat a stock M5 on rolling starts (look up DLSj5 I believe he has some good youtube vids) and look how it pulls away from the Porsche.
I am looking forward to rolling starts in 3rd.
My car is a beast in 3rd and 4th.
I am convinced there will be noticeable distance between my car and his.
Definitely will have vids to prove the results.
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      06-21-2009, 01:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianrg View Post
I am looking forward to rolling starts in 3rd.
My car is a beast in 3rd and 4th.
I am convinced there will be noticeable distance between my car and his.
Definitely will have vids to prove the results.
Looking forward to the vids! I ran a Modded X51 997s and it wasn't close, the vid is on youtube, the PDK seems to be much faster from Gustav's vids, I'm trying to find one to run myself, lol.

In all the comparo's I've done, my results do not seem to gel with Gustav's vids of modded DCT M3 runs. My car is not a freak either, as another DCT with bolt ons and I were very close in one run.
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      06-21-2009, 10:49 PM   #18
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Why not do the test at a drag strip and film it?
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      06-22-2009, 07:57 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianrg View Post
Will do.
Something you have to remember is that I can pull 1 1/2 - 2 car lengths from a stock M3 in each gear. If there are non believers in my area please send me an email. i would be happy to prove.
Now with my mods at the crank I am probably nearing 480-490 ish.
Hopefully will have my car dyno'd tomorrow to have the true wheel numbers.
Not sure how many miles on the 911 but will find out.
The 911 clearly had the wholeshot but in later gears my car preformed very well.
It be interesting to see your dyno results because I think you might be over estimating your crank horsepower assumption. I went to the Turner website and there Stage 2 software states it is design for use in a car with the front cats removed. Did you delete your front cats cause I didn't see that in your sig? Did you ever do a baseline dyno of your car? It will be impossible to tell what your gains were from your mods without it.
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      06-22-2009, 12:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knifegun View Post
Why not do the test at a drag strip and film it?
That is the plan. My friend with the 911 is gone for a few weeks so as soon as he returns I am going to hound him until we do it again.
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      06-22-2009, 12:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG_C63_AMG View Post
It be interesting to see your dyno results because I think you might be over estimating your crank horsepower assumption. I went to the Turner website and there Stage 2 software states it is design for use in a car with the front cats removed. Did you delete your front cats cause I didn't see that in your sig? Did you ever do a baseline dyno of your car? It will be impossible to tell what your gains were from your mods without it.
Hey Mike,
You are right had my car dyno'd last week and the numbers were not as high as I thought they would be. Definitely over estimated.
I do have the cat delete and I think the 4.10 diff really helps.

They are going to email me all the info and I will post their spreadsheet at that time. That said, the numbers were a little lower than expected,
355 hp and 260 tourque with 91 octane
We had two runs and only ran the car to 8100 rpm's.
I wish I ran my car when it was stock to see the difference.
B
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      06-22-2009, 01:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianrg View Post
Hey Mike,
You are right had my car dyno'd last week and the numbers were not as high as I thought they would be. Definitely over estimated.
I do have the cat delete and I think the 4.10 diff really helps.

They are going to email me all the info and I will post their spreadsheet at that time. That said, the numbers were a little lower than expected,
355 hp and 260 tourque with 91 octane
We had two runs and only ran the car to 8100 rpm's.
I wish I ran my car when it was stock to see the difference.
B
Interesting. I knew that individuals gains from each bolt-on mod doesn't sum up equally. Well I would consider myself far from an expert when it comes to Dynos. I know different dynos yield different results also attitude has an affect on how your car will dyno. Maybe some of the knowledgeable forum members on here in regards to this subject can chime in. What has a majority of members who have dyno there car stock gotten as baseline figures? Does whether you have a 6MT or M-DCT make any difference?
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