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      06-15-2009, 04:50 PM   #23
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AA has 2 belts, one pre june 2008, the other from june 2008 on. But is that date when you recieve the car or when it was bild ? and how do you know the second ?

Thx
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      06-15-2009, 05:00 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by sfp power View Post
AA has 2 belts, one pre june 2008, the other from june 2008 on. But is that date when you recieve the car or when it was bild ? and how do you know the second ?

Thx
I see tons of threads regarding this issue. All this should have been sorted out during time of purchase imo.
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      06-15-2009, 07:31 PM   #25
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I see tons of threads regarding this issue. All this should have been sorted out during time of purchase imo.

agreed!!
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      06-16-2009, 01:08 AM   #26
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I see tons of threads regarding this issue. All this should have been sorted out during time of purchase imo.
That doesnt awnser my question
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      06-16-2009, 10:53 AM   #27
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OH Man!

Another pulley thread. I believe this customer is having an issue getting the belt on because it is tight. He can contact us @ 1800-830-8596 for tech support during business hours... edit: Customers on the phone right now with one of our engineers.

As far as comparing pulleys. You can search my posts from maybe 3-5 months ago and my answer was that all pulleys are the same for the most part, that has changed dramatically with the post 05/08 cars. I will clear up a few things and give my $.02 for those who care.

1. This is not a 6 speed / DCT issue. It just happens that all Sedan DCT's were produced after 06/08. You can look on your door pillar to verify your production date. You can also look at your belt visually to double check or provide us/vendor with your VIN to verify.

2. When asking which pulley is the best or making these threads the important question is why????

3. Rogue Pulley: Taken from another pulley thread..



Rogue is replacing your ribbed POWER STEERING pulley with a flat pulley. Here is what I wrote in that thread regarding that issue...

Quote:
You are taking a ribbed pulley and replacing it with a flat pulley in order to use a single sided belt. This is not safe and definitely not the proper way to address the issue. The "lappage" on the power steering pulley is roughly 30% to begin with so every bit of load you can use to run your power steering is essential. By running the power steering similar to a idler pulley you are not accomplishing this. The belt needs to be ribbed and so does the pulley. If you do not use a ribbed pulley/belt you are going to suffer from a "heavy" power steering feel due to the lack of load driving the pulley, possible slippage and maybe even a complete loss of p/s at high/low RPMS. The p/s needs to receive the proper pressure to operate efficiently.
IMHO that is a really dangerous shortcut and yes it has less bite on the pulley

4. Not sure how Evosport addressed the issue.

5. We are now providing an extra DPK belt for post 06/08 customers as a courtesy for the next month.

6. I appreciate the kind words from Socal and Catch and everyone else but I really want this to be about getting a quality product onto your car. These are $70K cars we are dealing with and it is important that your performance upgrades have the proper engineering and R&D behind it, not just someone taking a shortcut to make a quick $1.

If you guys have any other questions please let me know.


bottom idler is actually a tensioner...

post 06/08


pre 06/08

Last edited by Omar@ActiveAutowerke; 06-16-2009 at 11:15 AM.
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      06-16-2009, 10:55 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfp power View Post
AA has 2 belts, one pre june 2008, the other from june 2008 on. But is that date when you recieve the car or when it was bild ? and how do you know the second ?

Thx
The date it was built. It is on the door pillar. You can also provide us with the vin my friend.
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      06-16-2009, 11:40 AM   #29
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Rogue has been in the business of pulleys for a long time (AA only offers 1 pulley at time of posting), please don't let the previous comments sway your decision.

Let's recap:

There are 0 reports of any belt slippage
There are 0 reports of heavy steering
Power Gains are similiar across the board

There are many happy users with M3s utilizing the new pulley setups.

Rogue has graciously kept pricing on the post 05/08 models the same, even though it utilizes a 2-pulley solution and additional belt. Plus, the added assurance that you are not debited to 1 company for replacement belts only makes the package even sweeter.

All the best,
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      06-16-2009, 11:48 AM   #30
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Tom,

Long time.. I will reply below in red.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Rogue has been in the business of pulleys for a long time (AA only offers 1 pulley at time of posting), please don't let the previous comments sway your decision.

Let's recap:

There are 0 reports of any belt slippage How would you monitor this? Wait for a P/S failure?
There are 0 reports of heavy steering Double check the previous thread, even though customer thinks it is not present anymore
Power Gains are similiar across the board

There are many happy users with M3s utilizing the new pulley setups.

Rogue has graciously kept pricing on the post 05/08 models the same, even though it utilizes a 2-pulley solution and additional belt. It is not a solution, it is a shortcut and a dangerous one. Are you really trying to convince anyone with any engineering background or a little bit of common sense that the ribs serve no purpose? Please Tom, that is ridiculous. Obviously the ribs are there for a reason.. why in the world would you remove them AND underdrive the system.

Plus, the added assurance that you are not debited to 1 company for replacement belts only makes the package even sweeter. The package is sweeter for you since Rogue doesn't have the belts..

All the best,
Why would you remove a ribbed pulley in favor of a flat pulley? Is there any benefit to the end user? Answer is NOOOOOOOOOO

disclaimer: I am a little bothered by this situation because of how dangerous it is...
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      06-16-2009, 11:50 AM   #31
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Very happy with my AA pulley and their customer service!

getting back to the original post...

I did the ECU tune, then the pulley two weeks later. Each made a noticeable difference. I had a independent BMW certified tech install the pulley locally, and he was really impressed with the quality of the pulley, and said the Double Sided belt looked like it was better quality than the BMW OEM. Said the single sided belt looked different as the flat side was very smooth compared to OEM, but didnt see any problems with it.

Only thing he said, was that the belt was super super tight, and a pain to get on properly. On the other hand, he got it on himself, and worked from above by removing the fan shroud.

The pulley makes a noticeable difference...not as much as the ECU tune, but you can feel it above 4k RPM or so.

A/C works fine, although the fan blows a little slower when idling. Electronics work fine. Steering get a little heavy at low RPM, but not that bad. (But this would happen with ANY of the pulleys, of course)

Just my 2cents on AA: their customer service is really exceptional, and they back their product up. They're easy to get hold of by phone, email, or M3post private messaging, and they've been helpful each time I have contacted them. I dont have an opinion on EVO, but only because I have never dealt with them before.

Rick

Last edited by RL in Florida; 06-16-2009 at 11:52 AM. Reason: spelling
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      06-16-2009, 12:01 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Active Autowerke View Post
Tom,

Long time..

How would you monitor this? Wait for a P/S failure?
No, this is evaluated through the typical prototype/testing and evaluation, then product release after everything passes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Active Autowerke View Post
Double check the previous thread, even though customer thinks it is not present anymore
Any PP install (since all accessories are underdriven) will present a slightly heavier feel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Active Autowerke View Post
Please Tom, that is ridiculous. Obviously the ribs are there for a reason.. why in the world would you remove them AND underdrive the system.
Lots of things are there for a reason. However it doesn't necessarily mean RE can't think outside of the box once in a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Active Autowerke View Post
The package is sweeter for you since Rogue doesn't have the belts..


Anyway, it's good to know there are choices out there. Thanks for keeping this debate on civil terms.
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      06-16-2009, 12:07 PM   #33
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      06-16-2009, 12:27 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
No, this is evaluated through the typical prototype/testing and evaluation, then product release after everything passes.



Any PP install (since all accessories are underdriven) will present a slightly heavier feel.



Lots of things are there for a reason. However it doesn't necessarily mean RE can't think outside of the box once in a while.





Anyway, it's good to know there are choices out there. Thanks for keeping this debate on civil terms.
Tom,

We finally agree on one thing. RE definitely thought outside of the box on this one. Its just when you take a second and sit down to think about it you have to ask yourself if it is safe or not. You don't have to be an engineer or rocket scientist to figure it out, you are removing the ribs from the pulley and running a flat pulley in its place with the flat side of the belt. There is no way it can receive the required pressure/load with this setup. There are gauges available to measure the power steering pressure to make sure it is being driven properly. I am sure RE tested this before releasing it but the important question is whether or not it is being driven just as much as it would be with the proper setup (ribbed pulley/belt).

Thanks to you too Tom!
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      06-16-2009, 08:28 PM   #35
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To address a couple of the questions above directed to me, I can say absolutely that my is a July 08 build with the double wall belt. I spent 4 hrs under the hood. I'm sure. The belt that was sent with the AA kit was also double walled, my routing was correct and confirmed with AA, but I can't see a human getting that belt over the last pulley -- which is the tensioner pulley. The belt falls, in its natural state, just below the 14mm bolt on the tensioner, which you have to turn with a wrench -- a long one for that matter. So the belt falling below the bolt means you have to undo the belt from one other pulley, I used the A/C and Power pulley on separate attempts, so that you can get the wrench on to the bolt. Now the wrench is on and the belt lies over your socket. Following me? Then you can put the belt back on the A/C pulley, with the tensioner all the way down and now your mission is to get the belt on to the tensioner pulley. Impossible. If you let up on the wrench without the belt seated on the tensioner, which you will because you the tensioner only moves about 2 inches and bottoms out, the belt will rest on your socket and was so tight on the socket (with tensioner relaxed or up now) that it knocked the socket out. Not sure if you're following, but there is no way, IMHO that this belt will go over the tensioner pulley when it hardly reached the center of the bolt. You tell me if this is normal? Mind you that I was able to put the original belt back on with the original pulley and I had two people and stripped pulley bolt to top it off.

That's the story. Now I called Omar and tech at AA and I can contest that these guys try their best to make us happy as customers. I was pissed off like a hornet after spending a full day wrestling with this thing and then having to re-assemble the car only to get nothing done. I was ready to give up on the pulley because this possibly can't be worth 10 whp. The tech at AA actually wanted me to try again but ... well, hell no. Omar is sending me another belt that is the 1070 -- we beleive mine is the 1065 which according to the tech should work. He says he has done it alone and he's 140lbs. I had two guys, good tools and i'm a hockey player at 190lbs. Dunno. I'll courteously send it back to AA so they can evaluate it as it has no markings but honestly, i'm not going back in there with a 1065.
The quality of the pulley appears to be top notch and I'd say the belts are not quite as good as the BMW originals, but this is just visual. Doing the job yourself in the garage isn't very difficult with good tools. It takes a little figgiting for the fan to come out and in but be patient and all is well. Take off the undercarriage so you can unclip the hoses that are attached to the bottom of the fan and re-attach them once done.
I trust AA will address this issue; they are sending the new belt immediately and I will work with them to send the old belt back so others don't have this problem. I'd strongly recommend AA for their outstanding customer service and knowledge on their products that they apparently stand behind all the way. Exhaust is next if I can this dam pulley belt on!
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      06-16-2009, 11:06 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Active Autowerke View Post
OH Man!

Another pulley thread. I believe this customer is having an issue getting the belt on because it is tight. He can contact us @ 1800-830-8596 for tech support during business hours... edit: Customers on the phone right now with one of our engineers.

As far as comparing pulleys. You can search my posts from maybe 3-5 months ago and my answer was that all pulleys are the same for the most part, that has changed dramatically with the post 05/08 cars. I will clear up a few things and give my $.02 for those who care.

1. This is not a 6 speed / DCT issue. It just happens that all Sedan DCT's were produced after 06/08. You can look on your door pillar to verify your production date. You can also look at your belt visually to double check or provide us/vendor with your VIN to verify.

2. When asking which pulley is the best or making these threads the important question is why????

3. Rogue Pulley: Taken from another pulley thread..



Rogue is replacing your ribbed POWER STEERING pulley with a flat pulley. Here is what I wrote in that thread regarding that issue...



IMHO that is a really dangerous shortcut and yes it has less bite on the pulley

4. Not sure how Evosport addressed the issue.

5. We are now providing an extra DPK belt for post 06/08 customers as a courtesy for the next month.

6. I appreciate the kind words from Socal and Catch and everyone else but I really want this to be about getting a quality product onto your car. These are $70K cars we are dealing with and it is important that your performance upgrades have the proper engineering and R&D behind it, not just someone taking a shortcut to make a quick $1.

If you guys have any other questions please let me know.


bottom idler is actually a tensioner...

post 06/08


pre 06/08
Great info and thanks for the diagram.
My stock idler pulley shredded and shredded my stock belt. I'm all stock with the engine.
You CAN NOT TURN this car without power steering with the car at rest. Even with it rolling, it took all my strength to turn the wheel- I'm 6'4" 220.
I didn't realize it's all one long belt.
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      06-16-2009, 11:40 PM   #37
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Quote:
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The date it was built. It is on the door pillar. You can also provide us with the vin my friend.
Hi I have a Euro Spec M3 don't know if that is any different from the north american ones. but I don't have VIN numbers. so when you mean by door pilar do you mean the A or B pilar?
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      06-17-2009, 05:53 PM   #38
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B-Pillar. Check for the date on the B-Pillar drivers side.
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      06-17-2009, 08:57 PM   #39
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B-Pillar. Check for the date on the B-Pillar drivers side.

Thanks!
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      06-19-2009, 07:41 PM   #40
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Here's an update: I recieved my new belt today and visually the belt looks better. The rubber looks like it is better quality and the belt is slightly thicker giving it an overall more robust appearance and feel. My impression is that the old belt and the new belt are from two different manufacturers. There is white print on the new belt indicating it is a 1070. The belt is ever so slightly longer, probably 5mm, and is noticable when comparing the two by stretching them in your hands. I'll post an update after the installation. To Omar and AA staff, it is a pleasure working with you and I feel confident in your capabilities, knowledge and excellent support.
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      06-19-2009, 10:05 PM   #41
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I got my pulley today as well and got two 1070 belts with it. The double sided belt is definitely thicker than the OEM, and looks very strong.
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      06-20-2009, 09:04 AM   #42
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I got my pulley today as well and got two 1070 belts with it. The double sided belt is definitely thicker than the OEM, and looks very strong.
So I am guessing you got an AA pulley?
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      06-20-2009, 09:44 AM   #43
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Yep.
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      06-20-2009, 12:26 PM   #44
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Keep us posted on that new belt and how it runs after..
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