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      05-29-2009, 01:47 PM   #1
mazda3ndp
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Just got the Dinan ECU tune on Stock M3

Just got the tune done, after having some ecu issues with dinan and my 08 e93 m3. so long story short I got the tune done finally and heres my thoughts. The car runs better, feels SLUGHTLY quicker. the first thing I noticed is the throttle response when not using m drive is more responsive. when accelorating there appears to be more torque, how much I dont know, but theres not as much bogging when accelorating from 2500-4000rpm and the car seems to scream more from 6500-8000rpms. any questions? feel free to ask and I will try and answer.

on a side note Motor Works West in northern NJ is insane! Everyone there was not only friendly but they really went out of their way to make sure the tune was done right. hats off to those guys!
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      05-29-2009, 01:52 PM   #2
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I'm guessing you dont have before and after dyno #'s?
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      05-29-2009, 02:22 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darwin316 View Post
I'm guessing you dont have before and after dyno #'s?
I will, the week after next. I'm going to the dyno next week, but I've got 100-octane in the car for the run I've scheduled for next Tuesday. I'll need to run that out and go back again with 91-octane to get an accurate read on the ECU. I've got baseline runs in stock and with throttle bodies with AA Signature exhaust. I'll add runs with the ECU after the 100-otctane run.

My butt dyno says, not much change from the ECU. By itself, this mod makes no sense, IMHO. I've got the 4.10 final drive and throttle bodies and hope that this'll at least give me more useable rpm in first and second gear, which will be real useful in autocross. As a street mod, I think it's close to worthless. Driveability is very close to the same. I always have my Power setting on, so I can't comment on the non-power response. It runs a slight bit more ragged when cold with slightly increased tendency to buck when you get below 1,000 rpm. (This is a very, very small negative and it's only negative in comparison to the stock ECU's impeccable behaviour down to 500 rpm, which is almost unbelievable for an engine with this performance).

The throttle bodies only gave 4+ hp, so I put them pretty much in the same category. If I could get a custom tune near Denver, I'd go for it.

I did the ECU merely to get the extra rpm, which I DO plan to use at AX events.

If you're going to do the Dinan mods, here's the priority I'd go, now that I've lived with all these:
  • Final drive
  • Spring set
  • ECU
  • Throttle bodies

The final drive is what it is, a simple, 100% mechanical change that works as expected. The Dinan springs set is really excellent and works perfectly with the EDC to give the car incredible handling. I consider it an order of excellence ahead of the stock set up with almost no sacrifice in ride.

The ECU only makes sense if you need the rpm. The throttle bodies are still waiting on a proper ECU to take full advantage of them. (Dinan says 4 hp is "acceptable", but I'd expect cosiderably more, given the 8% increase in size. Notice that they publish any expected gains on their site). I'd pay big for the software to dyno-tune my car, with my mods at my altitude. I think there's at least another 30-hp bottled up in there.

Dave
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      05-29-2009, 06:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darwin316 View Post
I'm guessing you dont have before and after dyno #'s?
of course not lol. I thought about doing it but its already a kick in the nuts of $800 for 9 horse power.
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      05-29-2009, 09:34 PM   #5
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Thanks for the review on the stock M3.
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      05-29-2009, 09:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazda3ndp View Post
of course not lol. I thought about doing it but its already a kick in the nuts of $800 for 9 horse power.
lol.... at least it sounds like you're satisfied with it!
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      05-30-2009, 08:07 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazda3ndp View Post
of course not lol. I thought about doing it but its already a kick in the nuts of $800 for 9 horse power.
I can now attest that the extra rpm ARE indeed useful. I ran it up to 8500 last night with no drama at all and a really smooth shift, thanks to my UUC SSK.

Dave
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      05-30-2009, 11:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstep View Post
I can now attest that the extra rpm ARE indeed useful. I ran it up to 8500 last night with no drama at all and a really smooth shift, thanks to my UUC SSK.

Dave
Nice!

Does the Dinan software raise the redline on 6MT since you were able to go to 8500? I thought it was only on the DCT equipped cars.
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      05-30-2009, 11:29 AM   #9
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what he said. i looked into this tune yesterday at my service. 6mt owners dont gain any rpm just increased speed and a 9hp and 8ft/lbs of torque. was thinking of doing this also for the speed increase but after doing track days im not seeing over 155 anyway so probably not worth it at least for me.
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      05-30-2009, 06:24 PM   #10
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Well, my 6MT now revs to 8500. I didn't go against the limiter and shifted right at 8500, so there may be slightly more.

Why not? It'd be silly to put it on the DCT and not the 6MT. Anyway, I observed 8500 last night, accelerating from a standing start on a slightly uphill surface (entrance ramp).

When I do the dyno runs, next Tuesday and the following week, we should be able to see the rpm on the graphs vs. stock.

Dave
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      05-31-2009, 01:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstep View Post
Well, my 6MT now revs to 8500. I didn't go against the limiter and shifted right at 8500, so there may be slightly more.

Why not? It'd be silly to put it on the DCT and not the 6MT. Anyway, I observed 8500 last night, accelerating from a standing start on a slightly uphill surface (entrance ramp).

When I do the dyno runs, next Tuesday and the following week, we should be able to see the rpm on the graphs vs. stock.

Dave
Can't wait to see the charts!
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      06-02-2009, 04:55 PM   #12
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The red run is with the Dinan ECU, plus throttle bodies compared to stock (blue). Don't get carried away analysizing the differences because I'm still having fuel issues. Apparently 100-octane and above at 5400 feet loses you hp. The blue run is 91 octane and the red run is Sunoco 100-octane. I'm going back next week with 91-octane Shell and bet I'll gain some hp.

The point of this chart is to observe the 200 rpm increase in redline on my 6MT car. I think that what Dinan's site is meaning to say, is that you'll observe the 200 rpm increase on a DCT car only if you're in Manual mode. It doesn't address the 6MT cars specifically and is only try to explain its limits on the DCT cars.

I'll run this 100-octane out and go back with pure 91-octane to replace that red line. Next we're going to play with mixes of E85/91 at 20/80 to see if we can't generate some more hp from octane. The dyno operator thinks that the low oxygen levels at this altitude are impacting my high octane runs. We think that the higher flash point combined with less oxygen is hurting power.

PG, if you're watching, I'll get you clean runs in each state of tune after I work out these fuel issues.

BTW, why isn't anyone esle at altitude posting dyno runs??? I'd like a little help here.

Dave
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      06-02-2009, 05:54 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
I'm watching. So are you saying I shouldn't add this one to the DynoDB?
Correct. The high octane is obscuring the performance gains, small though they may be, I don't think it's quite as bad as this chart shows.

When I've finished, I'll sort them out by mod and octane so that we can see a clearer picture.

Dave
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      06-02-2009, 06:00 PM   #14
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BTW PG, what do you think about my octane issues? These are all low or no ethanol fuels (under 10%). First I tried 105 octane and lost significant hp and 100 octane is still losing, but I'm not sure how much yet. Do you think the high altitude and low atomospheric oxygen, combined with the higher flash point may be what's losing power vs. the gains you experienced at sea level??

What do you think of my plan to mix a little E85 with 80% 91-octane?

Dave
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      06-02-2009, 06:07 PM   #15
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dcstep -

Thanks for posting the charts. One question, since your car now redlines at 8500, does the moving tachometer reflect this change? I can't wait to see the other charts with the other fuel grades. Thanks again!
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      06-02-2009, 06:22 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by rbk1115 View Post
dcstep -

Thanks for posting the charts. One question, since your car now redlines at 8500, does the moving tachometer reflect this change? I can't wait to see the other charts with the other fuel grades. Thanks again!
Hmm, I forgot to pay attention to the moving tachometer. I don't think that the redline actually did move, but I'll double check tomorrow. The observed redline, on the car's tach is 8600 now. The tach on the dyno controls showed 8600, but that printout shows lower, but so does the baseline. It seems to be 100 rpm low in both cases. The diff is clearly 200 rpm.

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      06-02-2009, 07:15 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by dcstep View Post
Hmm, I forgot to pay attention to the moving tachometer. I don't think that the redline actually did move, but I'll double check tomorrow. The observed redline, on the car's tach is 8600 now. The tach on the dyno controls showed 8600, but that printout shows lower, but so does the baseline. It seems to be 100 rpm low in both cases. The diff is clearly 200 rpm.

Dave
Thanks Dave. Let us know what you find out about the moving tachometer. Going all the way to 8600 sounds exciting!
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      06-02-2009, 09:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstep View Post
Hmm, I forgot to pay attention to the moving tachometer. I don't think that the redline actually did move, but I'll double check tomorrow. The observed redline, on the car's tach is 8600 now. The tach on the dyno controls showed 8600, but that printout shows lower, but so does the baseline. It seems to be 100 rpm low in both cases. The diff is clearly 200 rpm.

Dave
it didnt move the tach to reflect the new redline in a 6 mt... at least not that i noticed. ive hid the rev limited in gear at 8500rpm's i think its actually 8600 but i was too busy driving to study it
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      06-02-2009, 10:07 PM   #19
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it didnt move the tach to reflect the new redline in a 6 mt... at least not that i noticed. ive hid the rev limited in gear at 8500rpm's i think its actually 8600 but i was too busy driving to study it
The dyno has a big analog-looking tach on the computer screen and I saw it go to 8600 rpm. Since I was just standing there and not busy shifting, it was easy to be precise in my reading. Of course, the operator simply pushes the pedal to the metal until the car hits its limiter.

Depending on the scale of the graph, it looks like 8500 or 8600 rpm. Seeing that variability of the graph, I'm sticking with my 8600 observed.

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      06-03-2009, 01:47 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by rbk1115 View Post
dcstep -

Thanks for posting the charts. One question, since your car now redlines at 8500, does the moving tachometer reflect this change? ...!
No, the moving tach does not change. Sorry 'bout that. It'll be my little secret.

Dave
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      06-03-2009, 01:58 PM   #21
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PG, two of my runs have almost identical atmospherics, one with 91 and one with 105-octane. The 105 run lost about 10 hp.

I think my hp loss is about altitude. My dyno guys are forced induction guys, specializing in Subarus and Audis and they say that they get there best FI results with high oxygen fuels, like E85. They say that they typically get smaller gains even with non-ethanol high octanes, but still gains; however, the forced induction probably offsets the oxygen losses to a degree in that case.

I'd be interested to hear what your friend experienced with high altitude tuning says, if it's conventient and you get a chance to talk to him.

Still, I'll test my little theory by next week, I hope, mixing E85 with 91, right after I get a new baseline with 91 only. An 80/20 mix of 91/E85 will be less than 100-octane, but if it makes more power than 91 alone and 100 alone, then we know that oxygen is the issue. If that works, then I might try 50/50 to see if there are further gains, without deterioration in driveability.

Dave
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      06-03-2009, 11:27 PM   #22
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Did you get the Dinan Exhaust in addition to all your mods?
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