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      06-04-2009, 08:17 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attbimmer View Post
I just mounted a set of RE11s today. Just looking at the RE11s compared to the PS2s you can see that the RE11s have a much more square side wall, which helps with turn-in and feel. The tread blocks are also larger on the RE11s vs the PS2s. The side walls on the RE11s are noticeably stiffer than on the PS2s (yes this means they feel a bit more harsh over bumps).

I agree that the PS2 is probably a better all around tire for wet/dry/comfort/..., but I really don't care about wet performance in socal and $100 more per tire is just not worth it to me for a tire with less dry performance.



That's not quite right. The PS2 and RE11s are not directional, they are asymmetrical and there is certainly a difference between the 2 types.

On directional tires the tread pattern is designed to rotate in a specific direction (mostly for water evacuation) and there are arrows pointing which direction the tire should rotate.

On asymmetrical tires the tread pattern is designed to rotate in either direction, but the outside and inside edges of the tire have different tread patterns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Yes, I screwed up with my last statement. Both RE-11 and the OEM PS2 will have a bit of a different look L to R that is not symmetrical with respect to the cars centerline - because they both have a specific outer and inner designation. They do this (obviously) on many UHP tires so that the tire can have an specialized inner vs outer edge because the outer edge has to handle more of the cornering load. The patterns as well as compounds often differ inside to outside on such tires.

So, could I rotate the tires from side to side if they're not directional?


Also, for the OP, why not consider the Toyo T1R? It did pretty well on the Miata comparo. They tend to be pretty light too, at least the T1S were very light.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      06-04-2009, 09:50 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post

Also, for the OP, why not consider the Toyo T1R? It did pretty well on the Miata comparo. They tend to be pretty light too, at least the T1S were very light.
They didn't rank that well on the ratings I posted
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      06-04-2009, 11:56 PM   #47
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You're seriously basing your decision on Consumer Reports???
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      06-05-2009, 12:43 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
So, could I rotate the tires from side to side if they're not directional?
Yes you can rotate your tires side to side with asymmetrical tires and still maintain the same wet weather traction. Technically you can do the same with directional tires if you aren't driving in the rain.
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      06-05-2009, 01:02 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attbimmer View Post
Yes you can rotate your tires side to side with asymmetrical tires and still maintain the same wet weather traction. Technically you can do the same with directional tires if you aren't driving in the rain.
Thank you.

I've paid to have directional tires dis-mounted and then remounted after rotating side to side and it definitely prolonged tire life since there was a good amount of negative camber.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      06-05-2009, 03:41 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Also, for the OP, why not consider the Toyo T1R? It did pretty well on the Miata comparo.
But how a tyre performs on one car is not a sure indicator of how it will perform on another, especially in this case as the M3 is significantly heavier than a Miata.
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      06-05-2009, 03:48 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
But how a tyre performs on one car is not a sure indicator of how it will perform on another, especially in this case as the M3 is significantly heavier than a Miata.
It should be a very strong indicator. The tire can't really "feel" the cars weight it can only feel the pressure and with appropriately sized tires the pressure in the contact patch on a lighter car vs. a heavier car (given that the heavier car will generally be running a wider tire) will be close in area.
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      06-05-2009, 05:21 AM   #52
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I'm thinking more about sidewall strength and how the tyre reacts to lateral loads, a heavier car will always stress sidewalls differently to a lightweight car. Suspension design is also significant...compare how the E46 M3 had poor control over the loaded front tyre in extreme cornering that would cause a PS2 to "roll under" putting high wear onto the shoulder, something that does not happen with PS2s on the E92 M3....so whereas a tyre with a very stiff sidewall might give good numbers for the E46 M3 it doesn't follow that the same tyre would be appropriate for the E92 M3 which doesn't need such a high level of sidewall stiffness.
For me the most important property of a road tyre is not how much grip it has or how crisp the turn in, its how much confidence it gives you. I don't want some ultra stiff sidewalled soft compound semi slick that will launch you into the scenery without warning the moment you exceed its limits...I'm happy to give up some ultimate performance for a tyre that is benign on the limit and even more so when you have exceeded it.
I always liked the OEM Continental tyre on my E46 M3, they weren't great when new but once worn down to the "sweet spot", around 5mm of tread and with a few extra psi, they gave a great feel to the car and a high level of confidence in what the car would do up to and beyond the limit of adhesion.
I have PS2s on my E92 M3 and I do like them but unfortunately the E92 M3s suspension does not communicate as well as the E46 M3 which is a shame, I suppose its the sacrifice you have to make to get the increased front end grip.
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      06-05-2009, 06:29 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jml View Post
4lbs/corner in the tire is the worst possible place for it. Hard to beat the PS2 all around (wet/dry/noise/ride) unless you spend time at the track (and in that case, you're better off with dedicated track wheels/tires anyways).
+1

That's why I replaced my OEM PS2 with PS2s after considering this for some time. (I caught a special and saved ~$200 I think, but still expensive). A street tire is about all around performance for me. I don't care about a stiffer sidewall or a little bit more grip when I'm just driving around. They also serve as my wet track backup, and I know they do well there as well. I also agree that serious dry performance => dedicated track setup.
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      06-05-2009, 10:16 AM   #54
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Sorry if it's been posted here....and i missed it. But does anyone know the exact weights of the OEM 19" PS2s?
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      06-05-2009, 01:10 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
You're seriously basing your decision on Consumer Reports???
Not solely, but there ratings seem to reflect what is being said here.. PS2 and PZero rated high, The P-zero Rosso and Nero which are not seen as great are low on their list.. just another data point. I buy a lot of stuff using their rating and have always been very happy with what they recommend.
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      06-05-2009, 01:55 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
So, could I rotate the tires from side to side if they're not directional?
With the M3, you'd be wasting you time since you have to do front to front and back to back (due to different sizes), and the wear pattern wouldn't change... unless you dismount the tires and remount them with the 'outside' mark inside, but tires look like $hit with the inside side out (same thing with directional tires). That's why for practical purposes staggered setups cannot be rotated.
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      06-05-2009, 04:20 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
But how a tyre performs on one car is not a sure indicator of how it will perform on another, especially in this case as the M3 is significantly heavier than a Miata.
I was just bring up other tires I've read good reviews on, and the Miata test showed the T1R did very well. The Dunlops have also been well reviewed in some articles I've read. I just don't think Consumer Reports is a great resource for performance tires, and Tire Rack doesn't carry the Toyos, so there's no info from them either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
With the M3, you'd be wasting you time since you have to do front to front and back to back (due to different sizes), and the wear pattern wouldn't change... unless you dismount the tires and remount them with the 'outside' mark inside, but tires look like $hit with the inside side out (same thing with directional tires). That's why for practical purposes staggered setups cannot be rotated.
Good point. I may have to dismount them and move them side to side. Most M cars wear out the inner edge of the tire a lot faster than the out edge.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      06-05-2009, 04:26 PM   #58
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Where on earth is the Zero Hero? I can't find it anywhere, except for a few press releases...
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      06-05-2009, 05:47 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by attbimmer View Post
Yes you can rotate your tires side to side with asymmetrical tires and still maintain the same wet weather traction. Technically you can do the same with directional tires if you aren't driving in the rain.
So are PS2's directional? In other words if we have them on our "summer" wheels when the dealer puts them back on the following year they should make sure the left stays on the left and right on right? Hell, what about when we replace our tires, do the tires indicate what side they should be installed on>

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      06-05-2009, 06:00 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dartanium View Post
This must be a joke, I checked today and the 285s are gone.
285/35-19 RE-11 is back up on the Tire Rack website. Strange. Present, missing, present, missing...
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      06-05-2009, 06:32 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
285/35-19 RE-11 is back up on the Tire Rack website. Strange. Present, missing, present, missing...
Strange indeed, I might order the rears now if the local tire dealers cannot beat tirerack's price.
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      06-05-2009, 11:56 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
285/35-19 RE-11 is back up on the Tire Rack website. Strange. Present, missing, present, missing...
so are you going to get this tire?
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      06-06-2009, 03:33 PM   #63
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Here is an interesting video from a well know UK magazine; Autocar comparing:

1) Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric
2) Michelin Pilot Sport PS2
3) Bridgestone Potenza RE050-A
4) Continental Contisport Contact 3
5) Pirelli PZero Nero / Rosso
6) Dunlop Semi slick.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallp...=228551&Mode=B
(Click on "watch now")

Having used the Goodyear tyres on my E46 M3 I was quite interested in the results.
Shame Goodyear don't seem to make a suitable rear tyre size.

Last edited by SenorFunkyPants; 06-06-2009 at 03:56 PM.
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      06-06-2009, 03:50 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadget View Post
so are you going to get this tire?
If the darn 285/35 actually exists I am most likely to get those for my new RACs wheels.
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      06-07-2009, 09:30 PM   #65
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Got a screw right at the edge/corner of my rear PS2 today that makes it non-repairable Now I have to decide if I should replace with another PS2 or replace both with RE-11s since the other tire is near its end. Would you say the RE-11s are 'worst' than the PS2s in threadwear?
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      06-07-2009, 10:14 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebohon View Post
Would you say the RE-11s are 'worst' than the PS2s in threadwear?
Since many seem to say the RE-11 has a bit better dry traction I would assume that directly translates to a bit worse tread wear.
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