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      05-31-2009, 04:02 AM   #45
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      05-31-2009, 09:36 AM   #46
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color sanding

I think I can offer some input here. I had a small restoration/body shop when I was in school... I would paint old benz's and 2002's. Typically I would use a two part urethane paint, about 5 coats. Couldn't prevent orange peel. But, I could take care of it after. I would wet sand using special wet sanding paper designed for color sanding. This would be in grits from 1200 on up to 2400. You use a small rubber block and lots of water. Hope that the car is totally clean to keep grit from getting caught up and scratching the surface deeply. All ways go in one direction, not circular, or you would create swirls that will never come out. Good lighting is a must as you want to see the progress has you slowly cut down the high points of the orange peel. Eventually, as you carefully sand down the texture becomes smooth without any bumps. Then you proceed with machine buffing using course, then fine compounds. The resulting finish is mirror like without orange peel. The downside is you have removed a good amount of paint thickness in the process. I planned ahead for this by adding two extra coats. My worry in doing this to a new car is that the clear coat is so thin you would be taking down valuable microns to get the smooth finish. Also there is something about the original clear coat that is so tough, but if you cut the glossly top layer is seems to be less resistant to injury. I would be really scared about finding a detailer I would trust with this project as it takes extreme attention to detail and a delicate touch.....
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      05-31-2009, 09:52 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graider View Post
can someone post pic of orange peel. i don' t know what it looks like
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      05-31-2009, 10:35 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graider View Post
can someone post pic of orange peel. i don' t know what it looks like
Best way to see it is on a reflection (a high-res picture makes it more obvious), like the one posted above. If the reflection looks distorted, that's orange peel. It's easier to see it on darker colors, just like swirl marks and scratches. And you can have very mild orange peel to pronounced. Usually the more expensive the car, the less orange peel, but it's not always like that. Some makes are more prone than others, and the water-based paints mandated in the US don't help at all (it's my understanding lead diminishes it a lot, plus makes the paint stronger). Experts, please correct me if I'm wrong. Good day.
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      06-02-2009, 09:32 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Mavrick151 View Post
No car should ever come with orange peel. I am getting them to do it for free. It pays to be assertive in situations like this. Eventually they will listen to you. Looks like you just need to grow a pair and go talk to your dealer too.

Wow, you are really expecting the dealer to do this for you at no charge? Have you heard that BMW actually stands for Bitch Moan Whine? But seriously, to expect a dealership to absorb the cost of doing something like this for you is absurd. Most dealers would not have rolled over and taken care of this for you, and suggesting that everybody else should go do the same is ridiculous. I would call this being unreasonable, not assertive.


Take a look at any other E9x M3 on the road and they will be no different. I don't think I have seen new BMW that did not have a small amount of factory "orange peel". With that said, my M3 has it and it really doesn't bother me.
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      06-02-2009, 11:39 PM   #50
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Every single non-exotic car I have seen that was manufactured in the past few years has had some amount of orange peel.
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      06-08-2009, 12:05 AM   #51
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well i have quite an amount of this orange peel on my hood and doors.
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      06-08-2009, 02:37 PM   #52
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Here's something that may help everyone understand what kind of improvement can happen after wet sanding (courtesy of KDS in the UK):

http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/t...bishment&mid=0

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
This statement is coming from a guy that makes his living wet sanding unsuspecting folks cars. I know of several dark color cars... a Jag, a porsche, and a vette that were wet sanded, looked great, and 6 months later look like dog ass.

Don't even think about wet sanding your new car.
Actually, I do not make my living "wet sanding unsuspecting folks cars". The majority of my income comes from a field with no relation to cars. And regarding your statement: wet sanding, if done right, can look like perfection. I find it sad and laughable when someone who has no clue what they're talking about acts as if they're an authority on the subject at hand. In your case, you do not know anything about detailing or paint correction. Wet sanding isn't a chemical that can have an adverse reaction to UV rays or some other element after several months of sitting outside. It is simply sanding down clear coat, nothing more. Wet sanding after two years will look identical to what it looked like on day one. What you said is like telling a neurosurgeon how to work on someone's brain stem when you have absolutely no knowledge of the human body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChitownM3 View Post
I would never wet sand a car, and polish is permanent because its abrasive, but what do you think an abrasive does to paint?!?! It creates millions of small scratches which are hidden by the final coat of wax. I'd rather have orange peel that a permanent amount of surface scratches.
This makes no sense as well. When wet sanding, you use several different grades of sandpaper in succession, working generally from 1,500 grit, to 2,500 grit, and then to 4,000 grit. After wet sending, a light polish will remove any trace of wet sanding PERMANENTLY. The only way scratches would remain is if the detailer is lazy and doesn't use different grades of sandpaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ideliver View Post
E...my Sapphire Black wears its orange peel as a badge of honor...but IMHO there is only a small handfull of people that are capable of doing this correctly...I have seen your posts and pics....you ARE one of them...

But the rest of us....no way....

To the guy who thinks that this can't be done...what does EVERY bodyshop do right before they polish your paint from its repair...is it wetsand to level out the clear???
Thank you for the kind words ideliver, I appreciate it. And you're right, body shops wet sand and polish paint several days after painting to remove bubbles or dust in the clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahuh View Post
I wet sanded / polished / buffed a front fender that I was planning on repainting anyway due to a dent. The results were amazing; however it wasn't until the car was under flourescent lighting that I realized I had gotten very thin on a crease. I didn't go through the clear but you could see a different shade in the color along the crease. It's not worth the risk to me, regardless who is doing the work.
High-end detailers use paint depth gauges to avoid the problem you ran into:

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      06-08-2009, 04:19 PM   #53
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As the poster from Eclipse says - some of the comments in this thread are laughable.

I have had my Sparkling Graphite E92 M3 wet sanded, by the supplying dealer, at his cost. He did it because I was unhappy with the amount of orange peel, and he regards me as a good customer that he wanted to keep happy. So full marks to him, and the job done, which has transformed the paint finish.

The bodyshop manager told me that with current BMWs this is a time consuming job to do, as the clear coat is so hard. Note that he also said that with some BMWs, from some plants, the clear coat is actually designed to be self-healing and when this type of finish is used, wet-sanding will not do the job.

And for the poster(s) who said that all BMWs have orange peel - well my previous 3 M3s did not have it to any significant extent. Maybe the statement would have been correct if it had been "all current 3 series", as the 5 series also does not seem to have it so bad.
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      06-08-2009, 05:08 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
As the poster from Eclipse says - some of the comments in this thread are laughable.

I have had my Sparkling Graphite E92 M3 wet sanded, by the supplying dealer, at his cost. He did it because I was unhappy with the amount of orange peel, and he regards me as a good customer that he wanted to keep happy. So full marks to him, and the job done, which has transformed the paint finish.

The bodyshop manager told me that with current BMWs this is a time consuming job to do, as the clear coat is so hard. Note that he also said that with some BMWs, from some plants, the clear coat is actually designed to be self-healing and when this type of finish is used, wet-sanding will not do the job.

And for the poster(s) who said that all BMWs have orange peel - well my previous 3 M3s did not have it to any significant extent. Maybe the statement would have been correct if it had been "all current 3 series", as the 5 series also does not seem to have it so bad.
Tony B - any chance we could see some pictures? And to everyone else, having met Eclipse personally trust me when I say he knows his sh_t. While not his primary job, his true passion is stuff like this and he's probably the most educated on the topic I'll ever meet. I'd trust his judgment and opinions on these matters any day.
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      06-08-2009, 08:36 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by !Xoible View Post
u guys have waaaay too much fucking time on your hands
:
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      06-08-2009, 08:41 PM   #56
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If I had access to KDS or another pro detailer, I wouldn't even think twice about the wet sanding. I'd spend $1K to get my car to look anywhere near as good as the ones KDS has done.
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      06-10-2009, 01:06 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NugeMobile View Post
Tony B - any chance we could see some pictures? And to everyone else, having met Eclipse personally trust me when I say he knows his sh_t. While not his primary job, his true passion is stuff like this and he's probably the most educated on the topic I'll ever meet. I'd trust his judgment and opinions on these matters any day.
OK - some before/after pictures taken during the grim dark days of April.

With the before pictures the texture of the paintwork made it easy for the camera to autofocus on the surface. With the after pictures, the camera would autofocus on the reflected image each time, hence the trees being clear.
Before:

After:


Before:


After:


And a picture of the whole car, after correction. Sparkling Graphite is a difficult colour to capture on camera, being very light sensitive.

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      06-10-2009, 03:01 PM   #58
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This M3 is my fourth BMW. Currently have an X5, previously a Z4 and 325i. All had orange peel. It's never bothered me then, doesn't bother me now.
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      06-10-2009, 05:12 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
OK - some before/after pictures taken during the grim dark days of April.

With the before pictures the texture of the paintwork made it easy for the camera to autofocus on the surface. With the after pictures, the camera would autofocus on the reflected image each time, hence the trees being clear.
Before:

After:


Before:


After:


And a picture of the whole car, after correction. Sparkling Graphite is a difficult colour to capture on camera, being very light sensitive.

This is great post and using the auto-focus of your digi really visually brings it together. Well done. looks great!
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      06-10-2009, 05:32 PM   #60
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To be honest I didn't think that this would turn out well... but WOW, keep up the good work.
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      06-10-2009, 11:31 PM   #61
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Looks awesome, but damn, you have to really trust the person doing the work.
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      06-11-2009, 01:11 AM   #62
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Seriously, that looks fantastic!

I'd love to see an example of something other than Sparkling Graphite though.
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      06-24-2009, 09:14 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWM.D. View Post
Wow, you are really expecting the dealer to do this for you at no charge? Have you heard that BMW actually stands for Bitch Moan Whine? But seriously, to expect a dealership to absorb the cost of doing something like this for you is absurd. Most dealers would not have rolled over and taken care of this for you, and suggesting that everybody else should go do the same is ridiculous. I would call this being unreasonable, not assertive.


Take a look at any other E9x M3 on the road and they will be no different. I don't think I have seen new BMW that did not have a small amount of factory "orange peel". With that said, my M3 has it and it really doesn't bother me.
dude, your sig, car on the right looks sick. what is that thing?
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      06-24-2009, 02:46 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by !Xoible View Post
u guys have waaaay too much fucking time on your hands
Hahaha
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      06-24-2009, 03:14 PM   #65
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WOW- I did not think it was going to be that good looking, truely impressive. I almost wish I did not follow this thread because now I will not what a car could look like. I alway knew/noticed orange peel but to see the before and after pictures is something that will not be tough to get out of ones mind.
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      06-24-2009, 03:32 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
OK - some before/after pictures taken during the grim dark days of April.

With the before pictures the texture of the paintwork made it easy for the camera to autofocus on the surface. With the after pictures, the camera would autofocus on the reflected image each time, hence the trees being clear.
Before:

After:


Before:


After:


And a picture of the whole car, after correction. Sparkling Graphite is a difficult colour to capture on camera, being very light sensitive.

Wow the orange peel on your car was really bad.
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