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      05-13-2009, 07:50 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farbarg View Post
It's clear that the community's collective opinion is that the Pagids are the truth and light for now. However, I just couldn't stomach the 750 or so needed to buy them (and, since I don't have the time, I'll need the shop to swap them in). There were some bad experiences with the Hawks, so I went with the XP10's. They're also about 1/2 as expensive as the Pagids, and, at my level, I'm likely not to notice the perf. gain of the Pagids.
What!?! $750 for a set of pads? That's ridiculous. I was just about to order a set, but now I think I'll do some more research first. I wonder what Hawk compounds folks have had bad experience with. I have preferred Hawk Blues over any Carbotechs in my Spec Miata for years, and I could get 10 races out of a set that only cost $200!
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      05-13-2009, 07:57 PM   #24
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Carbotech XP12s are $251 for the front set. Just got mine today (I was going to beat up on the stock pads before swapping rotors, but I'll give this a try). Will try them out on Friday at Limerock.
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      05-13-2009, 08:22 PM   #25
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Lucid, please let me know what you think. Lime Rock is sort of like the tracks I normally run (BeaveRun, Mid-Ohio). However, I'll be at VIR in a month, and I'm trying to get wheels/tires and brakes by then.
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      05-13-2009, 08:24 PM   #26
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OK. This is my 4th set on the car, after XP10s (or maybe they were XP8s--can't remember), RS19s, and HT10s. HT10s were a disaster and should be avoided at all costs IMO.
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      05-13-2009, 08:54 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by lucid View Post
OK. That's broadly consistent with my experience--except for the 4th-5th shift in the 3-4 transition as that was happening at the exit of 4 for me. Can't remember when the two tranmissions top out in 4th respectively, but DCT will get there at lower speed and I bet it's nice not to worry about the shift while turning.
Exactly. I short shifted into 5th because as I increased speeds it was obvious that I would need 5th prior to finishing turn 4. This made things much easier to deal with coming out of 4. Also the lower torque multiplication of 5th made it easier to deal with the exit of 4.
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      05-13-2009, 08:58 PM   #28
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Exactly. I short shifted into 5th because as I increased speeds it was obvious that I would need 5th prior to finishing turn 4. This made things much easier to deal with coming out of 4. Also the lower torque multiplication of 5th made it easier to deal with the exit of 4.
That's a good workaround with DCT. I assume that if I short shifted into 5th at the 3-4 transition, I would lose time with 6MT due to the larger gear spacing. Nice to be able to compare notes on this.
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      05-13-2009, 10:00 PM   #29
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So who is the best source for performance pads for our M3s, especially the Pagids? I googled Pagid w/ and w/o e92 and came up with mostly Porsche tuners. The two Bimmer tuners didn't even list them for the e92 (Bimmerworld and another one I forget). Too many new flavors of Hawks confuses me. I am skeptical about the Carbotechs based on experience and what I've read here so far.
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      05-13-2009, 10:41 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3V8Driver View Post
What!?! $750 for a set of pads? That's ridiculous. I was just about to order a set, but now I think I'll do some more research first. I wonder what Hawk compounds folks have had bad experience with. I have preferred Hawk Blues over any Carbotechs in my Spec Miata for years, and I could get 10 races out of a set that only cost $200!
Just to be clear, 750 for front and rears. But you probably already knew that . . .
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      05-13-2009, 11:02 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3V8Driver View Post
So who is the best source for performance pads for our M3s, especially the Pagids? I googled Pagid w/ and w/o e92 and came up with mostly Porsche tuners. The two Bimmer tuners didn't even list them for the e92 (Bimmerworld and another one I forget). Too many new flavors of Hawks confuses me. I am skeptical about the Carbotechs based on experience and what I've read here so far.
Call Mark at German Performance Service.

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      05-14-2009, 01:54 PM   #32
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Mark called me this morning. He has front RS19s. I don't think he has rear ones though, but you guys should ask him.
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      05-14-2009, 07:26 PM   #33
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Wow, after reading through all the comments I am amazed that you get such short longevity out of your pads. I have not seriously tracked my E92 yet, so perhaps I am in for a surprise. My current track car, (3420 lbs with me in it and 1/2 tank of gas), using Hawk Gold H10s on M5 brakes last me all season, about 12 to 14 VIR track days, 4 sessions each, and even at that, they are only about 80 percent used. I replace rotors when I replace pads, although they too are in fair shape and have time left on them.

I assume the XP12 carbotech pads install on stock calipers/rotors? Same true for the Pagid RS19?

Appreciate the help.
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      05-14-2009, 07:27 PM   #34
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I assume the XP12 carbotech pads install on stock calipers/rotors? Same true for the Pagid RS19?
Yes.
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      05-15-2009, 01:35 AM   #35
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no need to turn rotors - you could get some shimmy from old pad deposit against new, but it will go away very soon on the track.
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      05-15-2009, 11:20 AM   #36
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FWIW, I did my first track event last month. I had installed Pagid RS19s after reading comments on the board (thanks again to Lucid for the extensive DIY!). I did not turn my rotors as the car was new (3k miles) and the rotors had no signs of grooves. I did bed them in.

After about 60 laps (4 sessions x 15 laps per) around Laguna Seca I have to say that the M3's brakes are more than adequate and I don't see any need for a BBK. Also $750 for the pads is brutal but they worked flawlessly for me and I would highly recommend them. The only downsides are they squeak like hell on the street and generate a lot of dust.
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      05-15-2009, 03:58 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dettlinger View Post
FWIW, I did my first track event last month. I had installed Pagid RS19s after reading comments on the board (thanks again to Lucid for the extensive DIY!). I did not turn my rotors as the car was new (3k miles) and the rotors had no signs of grooves. I did bed them in.

After about 60 laps (4 sessions x 15 laps per) around Laguna Seca I have to say that the M3's brakes are more than adequate and I don't see any need for a BBK. Also $750 for the pads is brutal but they worked flawlessly for me and I would highly recommend them. The only downsides are they squeak like hell on the street and generate a lot of dust.

good test then, LS is tough on brakes.
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      05-15-2009, 04:45 PM   #38
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Turner Motorsports just shipped me front & rear me Pagid RS19 pads. They had been sold out.
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      05-15-2009, 05:31 PM   #39
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I am interested to see how Lucid makes out with those Carbotechs. I don't have a problem spending the money for the Pagids if that's the way to go, but as a beginner I doubt that I would be able to tell much of a difference. So why waste the money if I don't have to?

I would love to run around the Glen like Mark did, but 99.9% of what made him faster was talent not the RS19's or the R-compound tires.
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      05-15-2009, 07:51 PM   #40
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I just ordered XP12 yesterday and will track the car in Mosport, Ontario, Canada on June 6 and 7. I'll let you know how it feels compared to the OEM ones.
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      05-15-2009, 09:14 PM   #41
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XP12s worked out really well. Ended up using 50% of them in 2 hours. Slightly more grabby than the RS19s. No fade issues. They are harder on the rotors than the RS19s though. I wouldn't recommend them to a beginner on stock tires.
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      05-15-2009, 09:29 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
XP12s worked out really well. Ended up using 50% of them in 2 hours. Slightly more grabby than the RS19s. No fade issues. They are harder on the rotors than the RS19s though. I wouldn't recommend them to a beginner on stock tires.
50% in two hours, is that more or less life than the Pagid RS19s?
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      05-15-2009, 10:22 PM   #43
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50% in two hours, is that more or less life than the Pagid RS19s?
Hard to answer. I am trying to figure out what happened out there today--if I was going faster or not with the Dinan setup. And I don't have a data logger, so it's not easy to say. My guess is RS19s had less wear, but we had less track time at the NASA event I used them, more like 1.5 hours I think. As I said, the significant difference seems to be rotor wear. I'll post a Limerock report soon.
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      05-16-2009, 06:31 AM   #44
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Thanks Lucid.
For a intermediate driver who will start this year to run r-comp would you recommand XP10 before XP12? What differences have you found between XP10 and XP12?

Looking forward to your post on Limerock...

Thanks, Vince
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