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      05-12-2009, 05:23 PM   #23
moosety2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMJ_77 View Post
Can't help but notice but did you register just to post this on M3post? Are you trying to sell us the car or something because I am quite happy with my M for now thanks. I am not knocking the camaro at all (or camero???) I am sure it is a great car but I personally wouldn't consider it and that is why we all have our own subjective opinions. I just hope GM is around long enough to enjoy the success of this new car....
Actually no, I'll admit it's been a while since I've posted, basically forgot my origional user name and password.

I wanted to post here, mainly because the bimmerpost has the liveliest discussion threads IMHO, and because the M3 is the best all around car between the 50-70k price range.

Also because IMO, BMW is still the barometer for which to measure quality and success of an everyday vehicle to include the likes of a merc, lexus, Audi.

It's rare that our country gets it right when it comes to cars (sad considering we invented the automobile) so every once in a blue moon when we get something right, you got to throw a dog a bone!

I'm just a car enthusiast as I believe most of us on this board are and I'm just mearly trying to show my respect for the new camaro and actually give an well done applaud to a rather pathetic GM company.

moving on, what I really like about BMW's is how classy they are, believe most everyone would agree on this notion

What I like about the Camaro is that for the first time you can dress up a car to suite your taste. You can make her stipper hot based on the color combination or dress her up in an evening cocktail dress.

Not many cars out there at any price point capable of pulling that off.
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      05-12-2009, 06:22 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosety2009 View Post

It's rare that our country gets it right when it comes to cars (sad considering we invented the automobile) so every once in a blue moon when we get something right, you got to throw a dog a bone!
Firstly don't sell yourselves short. There's lots of good stuff to come out of there as well as the bad. Just people tend remember the bad more easily.

Now on to the main point. The USA was a LONG way from inventing the automobile. It was invented in various forms by a French man, German, Swiss (hydrogen & oxygen 1800s), another frenchman, the the Benz man himself.

The US did create the mass production process that meant we could all have a go.
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      05-12-2009, 07:04 PM   #25
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I've always owned German or European sports cars but I gave in an bought a 2008 Vette in early 08. Same LS3 engine as the new Camaro. In short, it got the job done but you always felt like you were torturing it at high revs and it just didn't have that "engineering" feeling that a BMW or Porsche has. On the bright side, it was very fast, handled great, and rode very well. I haven't driven the new Camaro but I have a very hard time believing they could rival an M3 with the LS3 engine and rival the 3 stage suspension adjustability of the M3. I think the two cars are really too different to consider rivals.
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      05-13-2009, 12:19 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foosh View Post
They put certain gauges down below, because that's the way they did it in the 60's gen 1s. It's a retro styling cue, of which the car has many. See the new and the 69 below.
I know, but I thought they learned that's not a smart place and that's why they stopped doing that back in the 60s? Retro is boring though. Ford already beat GM to that idea years ago with the Mustang, then Dodge with the Charger, the Challenger. The retro idea is done already in my opinion. That was the one thing I like about the last GTO, at least it was a new idea.

I've owned lots of GM vehicles and have had some many problems with them, things are cheaply built and fall apart in no time. I couldn't even list all the problems with some of my GM work trucks on a whole page of this forum.

But I do admit $ for $ the camaro can be modded and easily crush anything else on the street in it's price range. Unfortunately that is not a deal sealer for me so I have no interest in buying one.
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      05-13-2009, 12:54 PM   #27
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Last weekend I visited Nissan with my friend to try out the 370Z (He wants the new Nizmo but not available yet) anyway, fresh from the 370Z expereince, driving the M3 stopped at a Chevy dealer just to see the Corvette and the new Camaro SS. It was not on my friend "shopping list" so we did not plan to drive it. Eventually we ended up driving it anyway. Well, I don't want to type too much, but the Camaro SS just not there compared to the 370Z or the M3. You have to drive them back to back, and put them through some corners and you will see. It's not bad but more like a 335i than a M3. Corvette has nothingt to fear from the inhouse competition.
If you planning to take your car to the track, don't think about the Camaro SS for similar $ the 370z with sport pack. is way better car. just my IMHO.
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      05-13-2009, 06:51 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
I know, but I thought they learned that's not a smart place and that's why they stopped doing that back in the 60s? Retro is boring though. Ford already beat GM to that idea years ago with the Mustang, then Dodge with the Charger, the Challenger. The retro idea is done already in my opinion. That was the one thing I like about the last GTO, at least it was a new idea.

I've owned lots of GM vehicles and have had some many problems with them, things are cheaply built and fall apart in no time. I couldn't even list all the problems with some of my GM work trucks on a whole page of this forum.

But I do admit $ for $ the camaro can be modded and easily crush anything else on the street in it's price range. Unfortunately that is not a deal sealer for me so I have no interest in buying one.
I agree there is a certain "feel" to a BMW, steering/handling is more communicative, etc, and that is an important part of the driving experience. However, I've had many problems with BMWs too (9.5 purchased new, one Mini, since 1986). My last before the M3 (02 745i) was "Christine" (only she liked to attack herself) and bought back by BMW. Ironically, I've had better luck with GM and Ford products.

However, I do love BMWs, and I'm enjoying a problem-free experience with the new E93 M3 in the 2 months I've owned it.
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      05-30-2009, 03:35 PM   #29
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I stopped and looked at a camaro ss today. I am lost as to how some folks in this thread can actually compare it to the M3, in any aspect. It's a typical GM product, lackluster at best. I have owned 3 f-bodies so I'm not biased at all, but I know what to expect quality-wise from "the general." Don't think for a second that the first couple of hundred cars won't be QC'd to death, after that, the lazy $30/hr to push a button UAW workers will have their way and the REAL production cars will start coming off the line.
I won't even go into the wonderful service at GM dealers.
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      05-30-2009, 11:19 PM   #30
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Where is this $44-45k coming from for the 2010 Camaro SS??

MSRP is $33,400 to start with the top line 2SS package, and there's few options to add to that anyway.
At most it would be $35k and that is you paid MSRP.

I'm sure even though it's brand new the Chevy dealers are desperate enough to negotiate a grand or two off the MSRP even for the hot new Camaro right now.

There's an arguement to be made for someone who would rather pay $35k for the Camaro SS with 2SS package than then spend $62k on a M3.

But doubtful anybody who has their mind set on the M3 will suddenly change their mind and get a Camaro.

But having a nice large, great V8 under the hood of a good looking retro American car is not a bad thing either.
I just dislike the gauges in the new Camaro.
Like the Mustang, they tach and speedo are TOO FAR apart, and are hard to see as the steering wheel cuts them off.

I can only imagine what the new Camaro would do with only $5-6k in mods to it.
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      06-08-2009, 12:51 PM   #31
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While I have been waiting for my e90 M3 to get here I have been driving a Corvette as a daily driver and while its fun when you feel like playing a little slap and tickle. When it comes down to it though I can't wait for my car to get here so I won't break my back on a speed bump or a rock in the road.

But back to the topic on hand about the Camaro. I have driven one and got the same vibe as my Corvette... Fun for a little slap and tickle but I would not have one as my daily driver like my 4 door M3 will be.


P.S The C6 z06 Corvette is a beast to drive but not everyday.
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      06-08-2009, 01:01 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosety2009 View Post
J08m3, I don't know which version you sat in the base V6 or the SS with the complete package. I would hardly say the SS v8 with the complete package has a "cheap" interior, on the contrary the leather, fit and finish is actually well done. As far as why they put the guages down low, the answere is to keep the dash as clean and as unpopulated as possible, I too didn't like this at first, but then after sitting in it the second and test driving it, i actually really like the simplicity of it. It doesn't try to overwhelm you with buttons and gadgets, but rather keeps you completely focused on the road and your surroundings. Add to the fact that you've got all the basic gadgetry you reall use on a day to day bases and that 44k price is well worth the admission.

Also just to clarify, the chassis is all aluminum and its based on the Pontiac g8 and not the GTO. The handling on the new Camaro is on par with the M3, if you don't believe me go test drive it!

The brakes are really good as well 60-0 stop in 109ft, not bad.

At the end of the day you maybe looking at this car with 70k eyes and not 44k, but honestly for the 26k difference in your wallet, I think you're 70k eyes can adjust just fine no?

Just think, if you really want to add another 26k into the camaro what could you do? well for one you can make the car a 700hp beast, have the interior re-done to your taste and still have money left over for a European vacation.

The moral of the story is if this was boxing the Camaro walks away as the best pound-for-pound boxer on the planet!
I sat in one at the local Chev dealer here and while I will say the interior LOOKS much nicer than the Vette and the seats were very nice (premium leather) and comfortable the quality of materials was still sub-standard. As for fit only time will tell but I wouldn't put too much money on it being any better than any other GM product.

As for handling. You say that the car is based on the G8 (Holden) which is true. However, you then say that it handles as well as the M3 yet not a single test of that car puts it even in the same ball park as the M3 for handling. I'm sure it's fun to drive and great for tail out etc but it's not going to touch an M3 on the handling front.

I do agree it's fantastic value though and am interested to see if they do a Z29 version that they spoke about with 500+bhp. That would be worth a long look.

Nice car, good value but I fear no M3 (or RS5 etc).
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      06-08-2009, 02:11 PM   #33
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Thanks Driver,,, shiet for $44k you can have a brand new Vette and save about 500lbs.

You can get an 2008 Vette for low $30k's NEW.

Vette way over the new CamEro.
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      06-08-2009, 02:28 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosety2009 View Post

It's rare that our country gets it right when it comes to cars (sad considering we invented the automobile) so every once in a blue moon when we get something right, you got to throw a dog a bone!
Not by a long shot tiger.
The car was knocking around a long time in various forms before you lot got your hands on it.
Read up on it. You certainly invented the mass production bit.
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      06-08-2009, 02:40 PM   #35
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Surprisingly, I kinda' like the way the new Camaro SS looks.....But I would never want to own one. That's why I just ordered my '09 M3 Sedan, because there is no other car like it in any way you compare.
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      07-15-2009, 05:38 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvrevo View Post
Thanks Driver,,, shiet for $44k you can have a brand new Vette and save about 500lbs.

You can get an 2008 Vette for low $30k's NEW.

Vette way over the new CamEro.
Where can I get a new 08 vette for that, I would buy one.
The new Camaro looks great in person, not sure I would get it vs a M3 though
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      07-26-2009, 10:27 PM   #37
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Thay look nice. I raced my friends ss. We did a 10 roll. Pulled 1 to 2 by 60 and third gear realy blow him away.. 5 to 6 cars to the quarter.
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      07-27-2009, 05:28 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by mvagusta View Post
Thay look nice. I raced my friends ss. We did a 10 roll. Pulled 1 to 2 by 60 and third gear realy blow him away.. 5 to 6 cars to the quarter.
Yeah, your friend might have been able to make it closer if driven properly, and had the big motor.

On a road course the Camaro is a big fail without a lot tire and suspension work. The M3 is pretty much plug and play.

I can't get passed the Lightning McQueen looks (a comment that seems to haunt this car).
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      07-28-2009, 05:59 AM   #39
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The allure of a good muscle car is too much. A 6.2L V8 with 426hp and 400tq with a decent 19mpg? Not to mention the super cheap aftermarket of the LS3 and a msrp of $35k? I think I am sold.

GM is really trying to undercut the competition with the ZR1 and this.
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      07-29-2009, 08:50 PM   #40
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okay I own a E92 M3 DCT and I just test drove a Camaro 2SS with RS package 6 speed the other day....... On paper they look fairly close.... power to weight is similar at a slight advantage to the M3 (9.0 vs 8.7 for a DCT coupe with CF roof)....but the torque advantage to the Camaro is HUGE (9.2 vs 12.2).....

I was skeptical of how it would drive...I figured it would have a serious motor, but was concerned about build quality-ride-handling etc for such a heavy car....it is 250lbs heavier than my M3 (3600lbs).....

I was pleasantly surprised at the build quality....sure its not a BMW, but it was quite good for a "chevy".....everything felt nice and the steering had a decent weight to it, but not the feel of the M3.....

The car is BIG...very wide and you sit pretty deep in the car so its kinda hard to see out of....its also quite tall at 54" vs the M3 at 55" which I think is far too tall for a performance car, but does make it more livable for daily driving....

The ride was good....not as smooth as the M3 but surprisingly good on some bad roads....far better than say a Corvette....

Handling was okay, but you can feel the weight, especially over the front wheels...and it doesn't change direction very quick...which I think the M3 is very good at for such a heavy car....

Power: This was by far the largest disappointment.....on paper it looked like it would feel faster than the M3...& I drove a 6 speed...no way not even close....granted I had a salesman in the car that wasn't in my M3 just after...but the M3 would KILL the Camaro in a straight line..felt far faster than the .5 or so 1/4 difference it actually is....I thought 426hp would feel far stronger than this....I'm very disappointed

Clearly the motor in the Camaro wasn't broke in and will gain HP as it loosens up....but still....

However for 1/2 the price of an M3.....I would say it is a performance bargin....sure the M3 is "better"...but its price reflects it too.....

Just my opinion....
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      07-29-2009, 08:57 PM   #41
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I agree alot with what the OP said except the Interior of the SS and the visibility from inside the drivers seat is horribly dangerous.... The Interior of the SS is horrible and is not comparable to any line of BMW IMO... everything else you said is pretty accurate and the cars are very very comparable IMO.


The outside of the SS looks amazing too me... I dig it
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      07-29-2009, 09:02 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosety2009 View Post
You guys are not going to like what I'm about to say.. Flame suit on!

I've driven a number of cars from Aston's, Maseraties (own one), Vipers, ZO6, 911 carerra s, Bmw 335i (owned one), Z4, M6, audi RS4, Lexus IS-F

to me the M3 is the best all around car period! (best performance, balance, luxury, handling, fun.. etc, value in one package)

Until I drove the Camaro SS today!

All I've got to say is that I am damn impressed! M3 still continues to be a great car, however I've got to give the Camaro the title of "best car" because it does all of the performance, balance, handling, beautiful exterior design etc.. the M3 does. Where it lacks is gadgetry and uber luxury interior, but then that's where the word "Value" came in) 44k vs 65k and I promise you for that difference I could not only make the interior something that could rival a Bentley, but have enough leftover to mod the car and take to a race at leMans.

You guys are really missing out on this car and I realize we are comparing a GM vs. BMW thing which tends to be blasphemous, but I strongly urge you to take a look/drive and your negative opinions will shatter into glass pieces!

BTW, not only is the Camaro a rear wheel drive, but it also has 49/51 weight distribution that when actually driven makes it 50/50

Dude, I am a car lover and can surely appreciate all cool cars. However, I drove a Camaro SS the other day in Alexandria and while it sure has power...there is no comparison to any BMW..especially anything with an ///M on it. It's not very refined and I would love to see it a track. I performed a few on/off ramp drives on 395 (near alexandria/arlington) and if I would of pushed it a bit more I would of wrecked. My 2005 G35 Coupe handles much better although it doesn't have the straight-line performance of the SS.

Is it a nice car...sure

Would I buy one....no

Can it give the ///M a challenge in a straight line....yes

Around the bends?....not in a million years

Exterior/Interior/Features?....never...not even in a million years.

Quality/Durability? No

Apples to Oranges comparison....maybe an organically grown juicy red apple to some steroid grown green apple that hasn't really riped and that is sold at Walmart..LOL.

=SZ
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      07-29-2009, 09:03 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foosh View Post
They put certain gauges down below, because that's the way they did it in the 60's gen 1s. It's a retro styling cue, of which the car has many. See the new and the 69 below.
Ugly then and ugly now
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      07-29-2009, 09:23 PM   #44
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take it on the twisties and the M3 smokes it. too much body roll
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