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      05-11-2009, 08:24 PM   #1
moosety2009
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Camero ss vs M3

alright guys and gals, I went over to chevy dealership and saw the new Camero SS. They had one in all black and I must say it looked like a thing of beauty!

If you guys have not yet see one in person, I strongly recommend you do, it's pretty damn impressive, which brings me to the subject of performance!

The SS version of the camero gets an LS3 engine rated at 426Hp with 400Lbs of torque!

The curb weight of the car is 3800lbs even which about 60lbs heavier than the M3. The skid pad numbers are also very similar to the m3. M3= .92g's and the Camero is rated at .89g's.

Given this fact and the notion that a loaded 2ss camero with all options maxed runs you 45k out the door, it's stunning looks and (i have to say it.. good interior) I'm wondering if any of you has pontificated the notion of M3 vs. Camero?

without a shadow of a doubt the Camero beats the Mustang and the Challenger in all aspects!

add to this all the aftermarket modifications available for the LS3 engine and the relative inexpensive maintenance I really thing GM has hit a homerun with this car!

True it doesn't have a navigation system, however, it has blue tooth, can play your Iphone/ipod, has turn-by-turn directions on-star, ambient lighting etc..

All of this for a meager 45k and done with impressive fit and finish!

So I what I like to ask is it ok to have this conversation M3 vs. Camero?


http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z...k-Concept.aspx
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      05-11-2009, 08:51 PM   #2
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To me these cars can be compared though I'm sure you will get a torrent of responses saying the two are incomparable. Some people tend to think that BMWs win in all aspects just because they own one. However I feel that the M3 though definitely worth it to many including myself is a little overpriced in comparison to other cars and on th interior even lacks a little flash though I also enjoy the simplicity to. If both cars were the same price it would be an easy choice. However thier is quite a difference in price making the Camaro possibly a sweeter deal
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      05-11-2009, 09:16 PM   #3
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It looks like a nice machine alright. I would have considered on if they had brought it out soon enough as I would have used my father in laws Chev discount and gotten it even cheaper. If the bring out the Z28 I might still consider it in a couple of years purely on looks. I like the look of a lot of the remakes of the old muscle cars although the Camaro is the only one that has done a decent interior (from pics at least). Having said that I love the shape of my M3

Skid pad numbers are a thing of confusion for me though. If you check out the figures you see that the 1985 Z28 IROC posts a .92g on the skidpad.

Now I don't pretend to be an expert but let me tell you. Anyone that tries to tell me that that 80's bucket of crap can out handle anything sold today is smoking some bad weed.
If it posted an identical skid pad reading to a new M3 then the test is completely useless. I don't know a lot about the new Camaro other than it looks good in pictures and the interior looks like something that the Corvette should have but I would be stunned if the 1985 model could come close to the new on dynamically.

Slalom times make more sense or even better if the industry could come up with a series of corners with fixed specification and use that as a gauge of handling.
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      05-11-2009, 09:20 PM   #4
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A few years ago and still in school i bought a 2000 Trans Am WS6 brand spankin new. I never got used to its tail end kick. Id love the long straights but in the twists id end up in some sketchy situation where butterflies in my stomache would be followed by loud thuds of my quarter panels bouncing off hillsides...I sucked at RWD power and the car sucked at weight distribution. Then i bought an audi quattro and the difference was night and day. I could slam that thing in the turns so hard that if not belted in id be in the passenger seat. After blowing up that cars transmission (probably from aformentiond reasons) I bought a e92 M3. I currently have 3K on the clock with some "somewhat" crazy turns into it. Totally calm, cool, and collected experiences with surgical precision. I can say WHOLEHEARTEDLY you would have to prove a "muscle car's" weight distribution, handling, and save my ass electronics before id ever reconsider an American car purchase. As a wise man once told me power is nothing without control.
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      05-11-2009, 09:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlpineM3 View Post
A few years ago and still in school i bought a 2000 Trans Am WS6 brand spankin new. I never got used to its tail end kick. Id love the long straights but in the twists id end up in some sketchy situation where butterflies in my stomache would be followed by loud thuds of my quarter panels bouncing off hillsides...I sucked at RWD power and the car sucked at weight distribution. Then i bought an audi quattro and the difference was night and day. I could slam that thing in the turns so hard that if not belted in id be in the passenger seat. After blowing up that cars transmission (probably from aformentiond reasons) I bought a e92 M3. I currently have 3K on the clock with some "somewhat" crazy turns into it. Totally calm, cool, and collected experiences with surgical precision. I can say WHOLEHEARTEDLY you would have to prove a "muscle car's" weight distribution, handling, and save my ass electronics before id ever reconsider an American car purchase. As a wise man once told me power is nothing without control.
You should have bought an old 944 and practised. It was one of the best cars to learn RWD in. Not enough power to get you into trouble and perfect weight distribution. Makes you look like a hero with very little practise. But you are right. Get a badly sorted RWD car and it's hell to drive. And too much hard work for daily driving. But one you get a good one and get it all right there's very little nicer.
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      05-11-2009, 10:47 PM   #6
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no offense, but American built automobiles....LMAO.
btw I have owned chevy, Lincoln, and Ford over the years.
After 4-5 years they rattle, fade, peel, etc...not all!!!, just mine
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      05-11-2009, 11:31 PM   #7
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Thought I'd share this link:

http://www.camaro5.com/
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      05-12-2009, 03:17 AM   #8
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Is this a "Camero" or a "Camaro" ??????
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      05-12-2009, 04:52 AM   #9
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I think it looks like a nice car.
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      05-12-2009, 07:18 AM   #10
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I saw one in person. It's a pretty cheesy looking car. Full of plastic. The review in the NY Times was hilarious a couple weeks ago. They compared to inside to "sitting inside a pickle barrel" and the designers "should be lined up in front of a firing squad" and the instruments "look like they came out of an 80s arcade game". But on the plus side it's got a lot of HP. I used to own an '05 GTO and this camaro is the same car almost. They just changed the body panels and put a newer engine in it. The frame is still an older design. But for the money I don't think much can touch it. A similarly equipped M3 is a lot more money.
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      05-12-2009, 08:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosety2009 View Post
Thought I'd share this link:

http://www.camaro5.com/
You gotta love those tuners and their claims.
Headers, exhaust and intake do not 72bhp make and especially not in an N/A engine.
If the car was turbo/supercharger I'd be surprised at those gains with only those mods.

On the plastic interior, I'm disappointed. I need to see it in the flesh but I had high hopes for it from pictures. It's been the thing that really lets American performance machines down. Why not charge 2k more for the car and put in a better interior with nice materials?? Surely people would pay it?

From the pictures I like the outside although some angles make it look like it's riding very high on the wheels. Can't argue with the price though.
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      05-12-2009, 08:24 AM   #12
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aha. I just followed the link on th epicture and if you follow the thread down the guy that did the tuning says he screwed up on the figures and it's actually 45bhp and 40lb/ft gains.

That's a bit more like it.

P.S.
What's this north american obsession with big stripes?

They look good on a Cobra but that's no reason to stick them on every performance car you make
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      05-12-2009, 08:56 AM   #13
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i think its a nice looking car from what ive seen, and the hp numbers and torque are good. my feeling though is that this car will only really be good at straght line performance like almost every american car save the corvette. the comparison isnt fair. its apples and oranges.
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      05-12-2009, 11:17 AM   #14
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I think I prefer the Camaro over the Camero
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      05-12-2009, 11:55 AM   #15
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They did a good job with the exterior. The car has great road presence. The interior is a little lacking, but for the price and performance there had to be some compromises.
And it sounds great!
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      05-12-2009, 12:55 PM   #16
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Lots of hype around car....GM stock at is lowest value since the Great Depression. I guess the hype is not helping.
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      05-12-2009, 02:23 PM   #17
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You guys are not going to like what I'm about to say.. Flame suit on!

I've driven a number of cars from Aston's, Maseraties (own one), Vipers, ZO6, 911 carerra s, Bmw 335i (owned one), Z4, M6, audi RS4, Lexus IS-F

to me the M3 is the best all around car period! (best performance, balance, luxury, handling, fun.. etc, value in one package)

Until I drove the Camaro SS today!

All I've got to say is that I am damn impressed! M3 still continues to be a great car, however I've got to give the Camaro the title of "best car" because it does all of the performance, balance, handling, beautiful exterior design etc.. the M3 does. Where it lacks is gadgetry and uber luxury interior, but then that's where the word "Value" came in) 44k vs 65k and I promise you for that difference I could not only make the interior something that could rival a Bentley, but have enough leftover to mod the car and take to a race at leMans.

You guys are really missing out on this car and I realize we are comparing a GM vs. BMW thing which tends to be blasphemous, but I strongly urge you to take a look/drive and your negative opinions will shatter into glass pieces!

BTW, not only is the Camaro a rear wheel drive, but it also has 49/51 weight distribution that when actually driven makes it 50/50
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      05-12-2009, 02:43 PM   #18
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but the interior looks extremely cheap. and how about visibility from inside? why did they put they put the gauges in the dash instead of down low where you can't really see them? Now $ for $ you can't touch it in a straight line drag race. It's far cheaper to mod too and will make a ton of power. Why did they build it on the old GTO from from years ago instead of some new engineering to give it better handling characteristics? the GTO sucked for turns and only went good in a straight line.
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      05-12-2009, 04:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
but the interior looks extremely cheap. and how about visibility from inside? why did they put they put the gauges in the dash instead of down low where you can't really see them? Now $ for $ you can't touch it in a straight line drag race. It's far cheaper to mod too and will make a ton of power. Why did they build it on the old GTO from from years ago instead of some new engineering to give it better handling characteristics? the GTO sucked for turns and only went good in a straight line.
J08m3, I don't know which version you sat in the base V6 or the SS with the complete package. I would hardly say the SS v8 with the complete package has a "cheap" interior, on the contrary the leather, fit and finish is actually well done. As far as why they put the guages down low, the answere is to keep the dash as clean and as unpopulated as possible, I too didn't like this at first, but then after sitting in it the second and test driving it, i actually really like the simplicity of it. It doesn't try to overwhelm you with buttons and gadgets, but rather keeps you completely focused on the road and your surroundings. Add to the fact that you've got all the basic gadgetry you reall use on a day to day bases and that 44k price is well worth the admission.

Also just to clarify, the chassis is all aluminum and its based on the Pontiac g8 and not the GTO. The handling on the new Camaro is on par with the M3, if you don't believe me go test drive it!

The brakes are really good as well 60-0 stop in 109ft, not bad.

At the end of the day you maybe looking at this car with 70k eyes and not 44k, but honestly for the 26k difference in your wallet, I think you're 70k eyes can adjust just fine no?

Just think, if you really want to add another 26k into the camaro what could you do? well for one you can make the car a 700hp beast, have the interior re-done to your taste and still have money left over for a European vacation.

The moral of the story is if this was boxing the Camaro walks away as the best pound-for-pound boxer on the planet!
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      05-12-2009, 04:20 PM   #20
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Can't help but notice but did you register just to post this on M3post? Are you trying to sell us the car or something because I am quite happy with my M for now thanks. I am not knocking the camaro at all (or camero???) I am sure it is a great car but I personally wouldn't consider it and that is why we all have our own subjective opinions. I just hope GM is around long enough to enjoy the success of this new car....
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      05-12-2009, 04:20 PM   #21
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They put certain gauges down below, because that's the way they did it in the 60's gen 1s. It's a retro styling cue, of which the car has many. See the new and the 69 below.
Attached Images
  
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      05-12-2009, 04:31 PM   #22
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^^^ I like how one of the guages in the bottom cluster is a torque meter. I want a torque meter on my M3. Although flooring it while looking down at a guage may not be the safest move. Still...
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