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      05-11-2009, 01:50 AM   #1
akssriva
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MACO/Training Systems Fees

Folks -

When I manually calculate invoice on my ordered 2009 E90, it comes to $62,110. Edmunds, KBB etc confirm this number. When I bought the car, I agreed to $900 over invoice which I thought was a fair deal.

But looking at the paperwork, I was also charged a $580 MACO/Training Systems fee in addition to the invoice and the $900. Dealer is treating the invoice as $62,590.

Just occurred to me to ask you all if this makes sense. Is this something I should be paying and has the dealer represented this correctly.

Would appreciate any advice you can give me.
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      05-11-2009, 03:08 AM   #2
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I was pretty angry at that too when the sales person drew up the order sheet, but I believe its mandatory for certain regions, mine being southern california, and there's not much you can do to get around it.
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      05-12-2009, 09:35 AM   #3
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It's mandatory. They have to pay, so we have to pay.
They really should be more thorough in explaining "invoice", but that's not technically part of invoice. It's like gas guzzler and/or destination. No way around it.
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      05-12-2009, 11:20 AM   #4
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I considered MACO/Training Fees as part of the invoice as well, since that's what the dealer has to pay.
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      05-12-2009, 12:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPoint View Post
It's mandatory. They have to pay, so we have to pay.
They really should be more thorough in explaining "invoice", but that's not technically part of invoice. It's like gas guzzler and/or destination. No way around it.
Ok, just making sure. Most folks who post cost related info on their purchases usually don't mention MACO so I was not sure.
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      05-12-2009, 01:31 PM   #6
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MACO/Training & Systems

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Quote:
Originally Posted by xfootballer15
thanks David. I realized after I went to the dealer my invoice price was a little off.


KBB and Edmunds have disclaimers (the very fine print) about how they don't figure in these fees. It is frustrating for you as a consumer and me as a sales professional to overcome that one because... who believes the salesperson? On these websites in the fine print the disclaimer reads something along the lines of not having the ability to keep track of every brand's advertising (called MACO in BMW's case)/ training fees associated with the invoice.

Before BMW changed to the current pricing for my region (200 training/ 200 MACO) KBB and Edmunds were usually off by $400. So the dealer having to overcome the "stealer" perception already, has to inform the customer that the homework they did about pricing is incorrect. The majority understand there may be errors with information that doesn't come directly from the source. Quite a few, with good reason, question the fees. The main objection I used to get was 1) "That's a dealer add on, explain or I'm not paying it", or the more direct 2) "I'm not paying it." Then that famous scene from Larry David's, Curb Your Enthusiasm, when Larry thought he caught someone in a lie (the stare down) would play out in my office, but the length of time wasn't edited for TV.

Some dealerships don't disclose this information either because they don't negotiate down to this figure. Enough of you know about my service and why I always disclose the fees. They are part of the invoice from BMW and are not dealership add ons.



I'm happy to answer any other questions you have. I hope this cleared up any lingering doubt you may have experienced at the dealership. Remember that the fees do not apply to European Delivery orders. Cheers.

Last edited by BMWDavid; 02-18-2010 at 04:26 PM.
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      05-12-2009, 03:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david06M3 View Post
MACO/Training & Systems

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by xfootballer15
thanks David. I realized after I went to the dealer my invoice price was a little off.


KBB and Edmunds have disclaimers (the very fine print) about how they don't figure in these fees. It is frustrating for you as a consumer and me as a sales professional to overcome that one because... who believes the salesperson? On these websites in the fine print the disclaimer reads something along the lines of not having the ability to keep track of every brand's advertising (called MACO in BMW's case)/ training fees associated with the invoice.

Before BMW changed to the current pricing for my region (180 training/ 100 MACO) KBB and Edmunds were usually off by $400. So the dealer having to overcome the "stealer" perception already, has to inform the customer that the homework they did about pricing is incorrect. The majority understand there may be errors with information that doesn't come directly from the source. Quite a few, with good reason, question the fees. The main objection I used to get was 1) "That's a dealer add on, I'm not paying it", or the more direct 2) "I'm not paying it." Then that famous scene from Larry David's, Curb Your Enthusiasm, when Larry thought he caught someone in a lie (the stare down) would play out in my office, but the length of time wasn't edited for TV.



I'm happy to answer any other questions you have. I hope this cleared up any lingering doubt you may have experienced at the dealership. Remember that the fees do not apply to European Delivery orders. Cheers.

That does clear it up. Thank you.
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      05-13-2009, 11:42 PM   #8
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I just ordered my E92 M3 two days ago, on my print out of the vehicle inquiry report i have N/C for the MACO and Training/service fee. I'm in CA and not doing ED.
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      09-20-2009, 05:14 PM   #9
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when you are negotiating ask your dealer for what they own the car for. Or negotiate an amount over thier cost, not wholesale/invoice.
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      09-20-2009, 05:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buschy View Post
when you are negotiating ask your dealer for what they own the car for. Or negotiate an amount over thier cost, not wholesale/invoice.
Holy thread revival Batman!
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      09-20-2009, 06:24 PM   #11
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threads only a couple months old, someone revived a two year old one of mine the other day, lol.
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      09-20-2009, 08:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buschy View Post
threads only a couple months old, someone revived a two year old one of mine the other day, lol.
I'm not complaining, if anything I appreciate the rival, since I forgot about the MACO fee, and as someone with an E90 on order, this is another fee I must consider.
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