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      08-26-2009, 07:31 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by drivendriver View Post
Read the latest issue of EVO (latest for the US--probably last month's issue for the UK). There's an article at the end about BMW's future plans. It covers the eco-friendly sports car concept and other things. They seem very confident that the next M3 will have a twin-turbo V6. Or was it a twin-turbo I6? I can't remember now, haha. I only read the article very quickly at Barnes & Noble. Somebody should check it out.
What a shame....
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      08-26-2009, 10:26 PM   #156
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What a shame....
why?
people said the same when the E36 came out with a I6
everyone said its grown in weight too much, and won't be as responive as a 4 cyl
same thing was said when the E92 came out with a V8
and that turned out ok
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      08-27-2009, 09:41 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
why?
people said the same when the E36 came out with a I6
everyone said its grown in weight too much, and won't be as responive as a 4 cyl
same thing was said when the E92 came out with a V8
and that turned out ok
So true, I dont care if its I-6, V-6 - or V8 with the turbo/supercharged. None of it matters to me, because I truely believe in BMW, especially the ///M division. Whatever engine they decide to use, I am sure it will be GREAT (to say the least).
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      08-27-2009, 09:58 AM   #158
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i think they should give us a W16 engine with quad turbos
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      08-27-2009, 10:04 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by slammedm3 View Post
So true, I dont care if its I-6, V-6 - or V8 with the turbo/supercharged. None of it matters to me, because I truely believe in BMW, especially the ///M division. Whatever engine they decide to use, I am sure it will be GREAT (to say the least).
Because BMW never did anything radically different to change the character of M cars in the past. They have done it now starting with the X5 M or X6 M. See the difference?

Have you watched the cabin video of X5 M or X6 M around Nurburgring??? It sounds awfully boring with a 6800 rpm redline inside the cabin much like a 135i or 335i. It sounds or feel nothing like a sports car. More like a very fast, good handling commuter car. Heck, my 330 ZHP can rev as high as that and it ain't no M. At this point, it is more than apparent that the new M cars will have the same philosophy of low-revving, high-torque force inducted engines.

Whichever configuration in the past M used i4, i6 or V8, they retained the critical elements in the engine, which were, high-revving engine philosophy, character and soul of a sports car. That kept the excitement. The issue was only with growing size.

Call me a high-revving engine fanatic but, engine-wise now BMW altogether killed just about everything that separated M from a regular BMW.
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      08-27-2009, 10:10 AM   #160
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if the new M3 has a V6 i wont be interested. BMWs that have less that 8 cyls should have them all in a nice row. my $.02
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      08-27-2009, 10:11 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by 330CIZHP View Post
Because BMW never did anything radically different to change the character of M cars in the past. They have done it now starting with the X5 M or X6 M. See the difference?

Have you watched the cabin video of X5 M or X6 M around Nurburgring??? It sounds awfully boring with a 6800 rpm redline inside the cabin much like a 135i or 335i. It sounds or feel nothing like a sports car. More like a very fast, good handling commuter car. Heck, my 330 ZHP can rev as high as that and it ain't no M. At this point, it is more than apparent that the new M cars will have the same philosophy of low-revving, high-torque force inducted engines.

Whichever configuration in the past M used i4, i6 or V8, the retained the critical elements in the engine, which were, high-revving engine philosophy, character and soul of a sports car. That kept the excitement. The issue was only with growing size.

Call me a high-revving engine fanatic but, engine-wise now BMW altogether killed just about everything that separated M from a regular BMW.
the only car i had that didnt rev high that i actually liked was my viper b/c it was stoooopid fast. low revs = no fun
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      08-27-2009, 10:17 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330CIZHP View Post
Because BMW never did anything radically different to change the character of M cars in the past. They have done it now starting with the X5 M or X6 M. See the difference?

Have you watched the cabin video of X5 M or X6 M around Nurburgring??? It sounds awfully boring with a 6800 rpm redline inside the cabin much like a 135i or 335i. It sounds or feel nothing like a sports car. More like a very fast, good handling commuter car. Heck, my 330 ZHP can rev as high as that and it ain't no M. At this point, it is more than apparent that the new M cars will have the same philosophy of low-revving, high-torque force inducted engines.

Whichever configuration in the past M used i4, i6 or V8, they retained the critical elements in the engine, which were, high-revving engine philosophy, character and soul of a sports car. That kept the excitement. The issue was only with growing size.

Call me a high-revving engine fanatic but, engine-wise now BMW altogether killed just about everything that separated M from a regular BMW.

Ya your right, but change isn't always bad. I for one like the the X5 M, I would love to buy one as my daily driver and keep the ///M3 for fun.

Now regarding the high-revving, I agree with you completely. But dont compare what M engineers did with the X5 and X6 M because perhaps they will make it a high revving somehow, we don't know what technology they have up their sleeves...lets just wait and see before saying BMW ruined the next generation M3/M5/M6, because the cars aren't even close to production yet!
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      08-27-2009, 10:34 AM   #163
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IMO, the next m3 should be smaller, weigh about 3k, I6 turbo (b/c we pretty much know this is going to happen), and look really sweet. Oh, and have seats that are like the BMW performance seat. Racing seats FTW. and an option for lightweight black wheels...since alot of people end up getting them.
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      08-27-2009, 11:13 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Robo Squirrel View Post
IMO, the next m3 should be smaller, weigh about 3k, I6 turbo (b/c we pretty much know this is going to happen), and look really sweet. Oh, and have seats that are like the BMW performance seat. Racing seats FTW. and an option for lightweight black wheels...since alot of people end up getting them.
That would be nice, but ain't gonna' happen. At least a couple hundred pound wight reduction would be a step in the right direction. Also, if they could offer an affordable "CSL" package in the US (~$10K with upgraded brakes, suspension & seats, slightly more power, less weight) they would sell a ton of 'em.
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      08-27-2009, 12:15 PM   #165
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i wish they would just make it a bit more racing focused. all of the luxury items are nice, but i really could do without them. To me the M3 should be more like a front engined GT3 RS.
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      08-27-2009, 12:55 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo Squirrel View Post
i wish they would just make it a bit more racing focused. all of the luxury items are nice, but i really could do without them. To me the M3 should be more like a front engined GT3 RS.
Ideally, that is what BMW needs to do but, R&D will cost a lot more and will still not please the tree-huggers. Notwithstanding, BMW's initiative to please the tree-huggers by going turbo, instead of getting rid of this masterpiece V8 or the 5.0 L V10. Just simply make the cars lighter by 300 - 400 lbs using efficient design. It will only improve just about everything.

Funny thing is the 997.2 GT3 non-RS is not stripped of any luxury. It is extremely luxurious. It weighs 2960 lbs yet, it only lacks back seats. It is just extremely light while having just about all the luxuries the Turbo comes with such as, PASM system, Navi, Sport Chrono Package, A/C, power windows, heated mirrors etc.
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      08-27-2009, 01:06 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330CIZHP View Post
Ideally, that is what BMW needs to do but, R&D will cost a lot more and will still not please the tree-huggers. Notwithstanding, BMW's initiative to please the tree-huggers by going turbo, instead of getting rid of this masterpiece V8 or the 5.0 L V10. Just simply make the cars lighter by 300 - 400 lbs using efficient design. It will only improve just about everything.

Funny thing is the 997.2 GT3 non-RS is not stripped of any luxury. It is extremely luxurious. It weighs 2960 lbs yet, it only lacks back seats. It is just extremely light while having just about all the luxuries the Turbo comes with such as, PASM system, Navi, Sport Chrono Package, A/C, power windows, heated mirrors etc.
the 911 is a hell lot smaller than a e92
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      08-27-2009, 01:07 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo Squirrel View Post
IMO, the next m3 should be smaller, weigh about 3k, I6 turbo (b/c we pretty much know this is going to happen), and look really sweet. Oh, and have seats that are like the BMW performance seat. Racing seats FTW. and an option for lightweight black wheels...since alot of people end up getting them.
3,000lbs would be amazing.....but expensive as hell
it's still going to have a navi, heated seats, and probably more luxuries
unless they carbon fiber the whole body I don't think it's going to hit 3,000lbs
and if they do, for the price it's going to sell for, I'd just get a 911
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      08-27-2009, 01:14 PM   #169
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the 911 is a hell lot smaller than a e92
Not a lot smaller. Maybe a bit. Atleast that is what the dimensions say:

911 Turbo length: 176 inches
911 Turbo width: 72 inches

M3 sedan length: 180 inches
M3 sedan width: 71 inches

An N/A V8 180 inches long car CAN weigh 3200 - 3300 lbs. It is just a matter of doing the proper R&D for lightweight materials and putting up with higher emissions than say a turbo V6.
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      08-27-2009, 01:15 PM   #170
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Can't say I didn't see this coming.

One certainly should "expect 0-60mph in under 5sec" considering the current e9x model can make 60mph under 5sec Anything slower would be a step in the wrong direction IMO. I cannot wait for the teasers.
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      08-27-2009, 01:27 PM   #171
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Quote:
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3,000lbs would be amazing.....but expensive as hell
it's still going to have a navi, heated seats, and probably more luxuries
unless they carbon fiber the whole body I don't think it's going to hit 3,000lbs
and if they do, for the price it's going to sell for, I'd just get a 911
navigation weighs like 12lbs, heated seats are useless (i live in new england, it gets cold here) The seats can be racing seats.

Im just being overly optimistic about the weight...i know it will never be 3000lbs...i just really wish it would
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      08-27-2009, 02:13 PM   #172
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glad to hear i wasted my money this year...
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      08-27-2009, 02:39 PM   #173
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Technology marches on. Either way, I think it will continue to be a very desirable car.
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      08-27-2009, 06:33 PM   #174
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+1

I get a sinking feeling that they will go to a V6 configuration, however. I sense that they will go with a single VGT snail mounted in the V with liquid to air intercoolers. This would keep the charge pipes (very) short and thus make the engine quite responsive.

I'd prefer that they get creative and mount an I6 transversely and use it as a structural member, much as V8s are used as structural reiforcements in F1 cars.
how crash worthy is that configuration? they will have problems
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      08-27-2009, 09:23 PM   #175
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why?
people said the same when the E36 came out with a I6
everyone said its grown in weight too much, and won't be as responive as a 4 cyl
same thing was said when the E92 came out with a V8
and that turned out ok
Because I have yet to drive a car or race car with a Turbo that is as exciting as a NA or roots-type supercharged car. No matter what they do, a turbo will have some amount of lag. When 5-10 feet count before the apex and you need direct power control, turbo is not going to tickle my fancy. Case in point - the 997.5 911 turbo. It is not even in the same ballpark to drive as a GT3. The good news is that the GT3 is not much more than the M3 all things considered.
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      08-29-2009, 01:41 PM   #176
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Read the latest issue of EVO (latest for the US--probably last month's issue for the UK). There's an article at the end about BMW's future plans. It covers the eco-friendly sports car concept and other things. They seem very confident that the next M3 will have a twin-turbo V6. Or was it a twin-turbo I6? I can't remember now, haha. I only read the article very quickly at Barnes & Noble. Somebody should check it out.
The article that I mentioned is actually in Car, not EVO. See the picture below of the paragraph that mentions the next M3.
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