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      09-11-2009, 07:48 AM   #287
southlight
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To end this charade ruff seems to enjoy so much I'm quoting his post from another thread:

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Originally Posted by ruff View Post
Have close to 2500 miles on a 09 Cayman S. Bought it because I had a very weak moment and found myself buried up to my eyeballs in an incredible deal that I didn't have the guts to get out of. The car computer says I am averaging 25.4 mpg so far. Most of those miles were acquired driving through beautiful hill country in the great state of Texas where the car was purchased. Yes, Texas is big and the barbecue is to die for.

Very few 09 Caymans are fitted with the new factory LSD; rare indeed, especially in combination with a 6MT. I made sure the car I bought had one and Texas was the State with one. The additional 25 ponies + LSD pushes this car to world class driving levels. The key is the low weight and and low mid engine placement. The limits are so high on this car that it makes novice drivers falsely believe they have talent in short order.

By far, the biggest minus to the car is the Porsche name, and the price associated with that name, which is frankly embarrassing and leads one down the the road to financial ruin. The woes of conspicuous consumption. I thought I could hide the car in my garage but security has been breached and rumors continue to leak at higher than expected levels. Amazing how far stereotypes can stretch on an extremely overpriced car with German origins and a fancy name. The Accord is attention and drama free and has been genius from a financial stand point. Not a shabby driver either, with it's low weight, free revving motor, and slick shifter.

Still a member of BMWCCA and plan on keeping it that way. That is, unless I see X6 M yacht owners show up making the claim they bought it because they wanted the ultimate driving machine. And for Porsche owners, I hate to break it to you but there are excellent substitutes including every itineration of the M3. The M3 picture in my office remains my favorite piece of automotive memorabilia.

Best regards,
south
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      09-11-2009, 07:49 AM   #288
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Quote:
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BMW are in a catch 22 with the next M3, do they run with an inline 6 turbo unit which will please those purists that believe no M3 should have a Vee engine knowing that is will be compromised with such a setup or do they build the best turbo engine they can which must be a Vee and to hell what people think, letting the performance speak for itself.
Nothing wrong with a V as long as its got 8 pistons. I love the V in my current M3.

I also think the benefits of the V6 are being overblow. Will the V6 beat the footprint shown here?



I doubt that. A small displacement V8 can be a very compact solution.
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      09-11-2009, 08:00 AM   #289
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Quote:
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To end this charade ruff seems to enjoy so much I'm quoting his post from another thread:




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Ruh Roohh
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      09-11-2009, 08:11 AM   #290
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Quote:
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To end this charade ruff seems to enjoy so much I'm quoting his post from another thread...
Aha, so he did finally get it. I guess I missed that thread - don't check the "vs." forum too often.

Congrats ruff! I honestly would not have bet on you ever actually going through with it. Not because I thought you were all talk (you obviously wanted a car) but because of the "conspicious consumption" piece you touched on in your thread there. That was always clearly a source of conflict for you. Sounds like it still is. But at least now you have a source of automotive bliss to go along with all that worry.

I see you decided on the 6MT. I'm sure its a great car no matter the gearbox - you can't go wrong either way. Enjoy that bad-boy. I suspect it will be a very long time before you even think of replacing it. You'll still remain king rabble rouser of M3Post in my book , but now at least you have the stripes on your sleeve. Welcome to world of overpriced performance machines, old buddy.
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      09-11-2009, 02:03 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Nothing wrong with a V as long as its got 8 pistons. I love the V in my current M3.

I also think the benefits of the V6 are being overblow. Will the V6 beat the footprint shown here?



I doubt that. A small displacement V8 can be a very compact solution.
Who ever told you that only 8 cylinders was the right number for a Vee engine. And no to you belief that the benefits of the V6 format is being overblow, it has lots more benefits than negatives compared to an inline6, compactness is a very important benefit that the M3 chassis could really do with, especially if the added weight of turbos etc are to be included.

If BMW go for any other format than a Vee I will eat my hat.
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      09-11-2009, 03:41 PM   #292
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Quote:
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Who ever told you that only 8 cylinders was the right number for a Vee engine.
My ears.

Quote:
And no to you belief that the benefits of the V6 format is being overblow, it has lots more benefits than negatives compared to an inline6...
Maybe so, but I am talking about as compared to a similar displacement V8.
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      09-11-2009, 04:42 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
My ears.



Maybe so, but I am talking about as compared to a similar displacement V8.
Well there's no arguing about the noise they make but there is some just as musical V6s, only different.

As for the number of cylinders, well I can't disagree that a similar capacity V8 wouldn't be as good but it would be more complicated and a little longer. There is a minimum cylinder capacity that works efficiently and probably the McLaren is approaching that figure, but if BMW dropped there's down to 3L then I would have thought that a V6 would have been the better option.

Only time will tell but I was sure that BMW have openly said that it will be a 6 cyl engine next time round.
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      09-11-2009, 07:21 PM   #294
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They can keep the turbos, I like NA.
Finally, someone who's making some sense!
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      09-11-2009, 08:01 PM   #295
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Well there's no arguing about the noise they make but there is some just as musical V6s, only different.
VERY different . A V6 will NEVER sound like a V8, even the worst sounding V8 out there. And yes, I own a V6 too, which is one of the better sounding V6s as far as engine sound is concerned (even with crappy SOHC and belt-driven cams), but I'd NEVER dare to put an exhaust on any V6. Am not putting an exhaust on my M3 either, but only because don't want the extra drone .

I'd rate the best V8s as 10/10 on engine/exhaust sound. The best V6 as 8/6, and the best H6 as 9/9. Good day.
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      09-12-2009, 11:28 AM   #296
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^ bc they have what's new now and whatever is new is better, right? lol
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      09-12-2009, 01:39 PM   #297
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Quote:
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No whatever is better is better, lighter weight - Same power - in theory better handling - better mods = Better performance car.
Gotta agree with this, whatever is better is better!!
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      09-12-2009, 01:47 PM   #298
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So technically the 335i is really an ///M3 also.
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      09-12-2009, 01:57 PM   #299
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So technically the 335i is really an ///M3 also.
Oh boy, here we go...
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      09-12-2009, 02:02 PM   #300
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Reading this thread gave me a headache.
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      09-12-2009, 03:17 PM   #301
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So technically the 335i is really an ///M3 also.
No, it's not. The new engine won't be based on the N54.


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      09-12-2009, 06:16 PM   #302
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I have been reading a bit about the new X6 M, I know, I know, heresy for the M division according to the purists. Well not in my opinion. Anyway, we can confine posts specifically about the X M vehicles to those threads. The tidbit about the X6 M's S63 engine and turbo system that I felt was relevant to the whole discussion about the new M3 engine is this, BMWs "Cylinder Block Comprehensive Exhaust Manifold". This is (one of) BMWs new and patented systems for reducing turbo lag. I've not driven the X6 M but what I have heard from multiple reviews is that its turbo lag compares very favorably to other turbos. Combine this with one or more of the following - higher rpm turbos, variable vane turbos, KERS - and BMW might just be able to make the new M3 lag free.

Basically the CCM system works by feeding each scroll on each bank of the twin bank/twin scroll turbo system with exhaust gas from pistons on opposite cylinder banks. This accomplishes a more even series of pressure pulses on the turbos and reduces lag. I can't say I am quite clear on exactly how/why this reduces lag but according to BMW and reviews it does. A very detailed description is provided here. This of course begs the question as to how to layout such a system on a V6, you can't accomplish the exact same thing with a twin scroll/twin bank in a V6...
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      09-12-2009, 06:21 PM   #303
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      09-12-2009, 07:01 PM   #304
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Quote:
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Seeing as the M3 is going to have another 2-3 years of development, I'd say that they have that many years to reduce turbo lag and raise the redline and they should get the job done.


The current M3 is brilliant, but the next one should be even better.

This thread should honestly be closed at this point, its stupid to even argue about such things. SOOOOOO much can change in 2-3 years, and at the end of the day. IF, in 2-3 years you don't want the NEW M3, then keep your E9x and enjoy it. It will always be great, much like the E46 will always be great IMO. But the new M3 will just be better, I don't care how you put it. It will be better, they are not going to go backwards in technology, performance etc..
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      09-12-2009, 09:18 PM   #305
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This accomplishes a more even series of pressure pulses on the turbos and reduces lag.
Each turbo is fed EVEN pulses (every 180 of crankshaft rotation), which obviously makes the boost as smooth and linear as possible. But just like you, I also don't see how that can translate to noticeable less lag . It probably does, but it must be so minute (compared to other twin-turbo setups) that could be undetectable. Only driving an N63 and S63 back to back will tell the story.

But as the writer said, it'll NEVER match the throttle response of a NA engine, and even less a NA M engine, since the individual TBs make it even more immediate.
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      09-13-2009, 12:45 AM   #306
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Blah blah blah, the next m3 is turbo, period! And im getting it!
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      09-13-2009, 03:50 AM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I have been reading a bit about the new X6 M, I know, I know, heresy for the M division according to the purists. Well not in my opinion. Anyway, we can confine posts specifically about the X M vehicles to those threads. The tidbit about the X6 M's S63 engine and turbo system that I felt was relevant to the whole discussion about the new M3 engine is this, BMWs "Cylinder Block Comprehensive Exhaust Manifold". This is (one of) BMWs new and patented systems for reducing turbo lag. I've not driven the X6 M but what I have heard from multiple reviews is that its turbo lag compares very favorably to other turbos. Combine this with one or more of the following - higher rpm turbos, variable vane turbos, KERS - and BMW might just be able to make the new M3 lag free.

Basically the CCM system works by feeding each scroll on each bank of the twin bank/twin scroll turbo system with exhaust gas from pistons on opposite cylinder banks. This accomplishes a more even series of pressure pulses on the turbos and reduces lag. I can't say I am quite clear on exactly how/why this reduces lag but according to BMW and reviews it does. A very detailed description is provided here. This of course begs the question as to how to layout such a system on a V6, you can't accomplish the exact same thing with a twin scroll/twin bank in a V6...
Here's a few other diagrams to help you guys understand it better.





How that would work in a 6 cylinder count is any one's guess but a mounting the turbos between the banks helps keep flow pressure at the maximum.
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      09-13-2009, 04:29 AM   #308
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Quote:
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How that would work in a 6 cylinder count is any one's guess but a mounting the turbos between the banks helps keep flow pressure at the maximum.
A friend of mine would say:
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Best not bother or you'll need a couple of painkillers and a damp towel to rap around your head.

Best regards,
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