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      09-05-2009, 11:46 PM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nawaaz View Post
I give great importance to the sound of a high-performance vehicle. An aftermarket exhaust is a MUST for me every time I get a new car for myself.

I went catless on the Evo I used to have, and I'm going catless with the M3 now. The sound is soooooo mentally soothing for me. The exhaust note is what strikes deep emotions within myself.

It's tough for most people to understand.
+1 Sound is very important to me as well. I could listen to exhaust videos on youtube all day.
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      09-06-2009, 09:19 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Nawaaz View Post
I give great importance to the sound of a high-performance vehicle. An aftermarket exhaust is a MUST for me every time I get a new car for myself.

I went catless on the Evo I used to have, and I'm going catless with the M3 now. The sound is soooooo mentally soothing for me. The exhaust note is what strikes deep emotions within myself.

It's tough for most people to understand.
I wouldnŽt go catless since that would eliminate my possibility of passing emissions, yes???, but I pretty much agree with your statement on sound. IŽve been fortunate to drive many super cars for soooo many hours in and out and I gotta say the Ferrari 430 sound is something special. Makes my hair stand up!!! M3 sound is not too shabby especially with the right aftermarket exhaust. Though watch out for that drone in most cases.
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      09-06-2009, 09:33 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
I wouldnŽt go catless since that would eliminate my possibility of passing emissions, yes???, but I pretty much agree with your statement on sound. IŽve been fortunate to drive many super cars for soooo many hours in and out and I gotta say the Ferrari 430 sound is something special. Makes my hair stand up!!! M3 sound is not too shabby especially with the right aftermarket exhaust. Though watch out for that drone in most cases.
+1

After 2 years, I still can't wait to fire up my 430. IMO, nothing sounds like a 430. I've driven them all as well, and my next favorite would be the CGT.
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      09-06-2009, 09:54 AM   #224
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+1

After 2 years, I still can't wait to fire up my 430. IMO, nothing sounds like a 430. I've driven them all as well, and my next favorite would be the CGT.
Yep, 430 is my favorite as well IŽd also add the Pagani Zonda though, they sound like Ferrari on drugs. lol.
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      09-06-2009, 07:11 PM   #225
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When thay make the turbo m3. It is over for the m3 brand. My coupe wll be the last and the best original m3 ever built. I will not buy a turbo m3! I will get a porsche 911! I will then shelf the m3.
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      09-06-2009, 07:50 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorBlue371 View Post
Congratulations. Im sure enough people will appreciate the more efficient engine, more torque, better responsiveness to mods and lighter weight resulting in a superior M3 to make it worth the M division's time.


But hey, its not N/A so it sucks, right?
Yes while living in fantasy land, those are true. There is simply no turbocharged engine out there that combines all of them into one engine. How would BMW do that???

All of the leading race engines in the world being used in performance engines for racing cars are high-revving N/A engines simply because the throttle response and sensitivity achieved in a low-gear, high-revving engine especially in the corners is impossible to recreate either through low-revving torquey engines or laggy and lazy turbocharged engines that take time to spool up no matter how many "variable geometry turbines" are introduced.

Above all, turbocharged, low-revving engines sound pathetically boring and commuter car like. The proof is in the X5 M and X6 M. I listened to it over the weekend at the BMW dealership and it is nothing like a race engine.
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      09-06-2009, 07:51 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpiguy View Post
+1

After 2 years, I still can't wait to fire up my 430. IMO, nothing sounds like a 430. I've driven them all as well, and my next favorite would be the CGT.
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Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico View Post
Yep, 430 is my favorite as well IŽd also add the Pagani Zonda though, they sound like Ferrari on drugs. lol.
k alice in wonderland! wake up...
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      09-06-2009, 07:56 PM   #228
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k alice in wonderland! wake up...
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      09-06-2009, 09:01 PM   #229
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true M3's are not tubo charged. If i wanted a turbo charged engine i would've bought a porsche. The people at M/ were going the right direction with the e 92 m3 V8. No more prestige with a turbo. When i thought drivable fast stylish car i said to my self 1. porsche cayman S design edition #077 72k. 2. bmw m3 coupe four seater 67k 3.corvette zo6 68k. I went to porsche sale rep was a snob. Would not budge. Just the fact of not budgeing more the 2k. Screw him and the atitude. Plus I rather be real and get the 911 Later. 2. The room and for the michigan weather make sence and the prestige. 3. corvette ? value and dependablility. I'd rather what for a used zr1. Back to the point. M/ really added a con to the list I'd rather get a porsche 911 turbo used then a 335i! People are going to say would you like a turbo 335 or a turbo m3? No thank you.
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      09-06-2009, 09:31 PM   #230
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If you want the most powerful 911, you will get the GT2 (which obviously is the most turbocharged).

Arguably, if you want the most race oriented, exciting, thrilling and sonorous 911 belting out the most beautiful soundtracks in all octaves, you will get the GT3 997.2 or RS. It happens to be Walter Rohrl's most favorite 911 as well (who developed the GT2 as well).

Porsche markets both the GT2 and GT3 completely differently. They always address the track racers with the GT3 and claim 80% of the time GT3s are driven at the limits on the race track, which is more than any other 911. While GT2 for the daily driver 911 owners who long for gobbs of power, handling and thrust while being comfortable and relaxed driving it.

Even Porsche realizes that they cannot simply afford to build and market a street legal race car 911 that is not N/A.

Not to mention, BMW is not doing too hot with reliability in turbos. The S65 has already established a glowing record of extreme reliability, quality and smoothness. I was reading a long term test by Motor Trend on an M3 sedan 6 speed and they were heaping praises on the M3 for causing absolutely no issues while the 335 engine seems to be plagued with turbo related issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mvagusta View Post
true M3's are not tubo charged. If i wanted a turbo charged engine i would've bought a porsche. The people at M/ were going the right direction with the e 92 m3 V8. No more prestige with a turbo. When i thought drivable fast stylish car i said to my self 1. porsche cayman S design edition #077 72k. 2. bmw m3 coupe four seater 67k 3.corvette zo6 68k. I went to porsche sale rep was a snob. Would not budge. Just the fact of not budgeing more the 2k. Screw him and the atitude. Plus I rather be real and get the 911 Later. 2. The room and for the michigan weather make sence and the prestige. 3. corvette ? value and dependablility. I'd rather what for a used zr1. Back to the point. M/ really added a con to the list I'd rather get a porsche 911 turbo used then a 335i! People are going to say would you like a turbo 335 or a turbo m3? No thank you.
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      09-07-2009, 03:18 AM   #231
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Yes the GT3 is Porsche's trackday special and as such it's fitted with a N/A engine, but seriously guys, who here think the M3 is closer to the GT3 in product placement than the 997turbo.

If you think the GT3 then you seriously need to get a grip on reality, the M3 is more of a daily driver the even a 997turbo, never mind the more extreme GT2 or GT3.

Let BMW fit the M3 with a turbo and then ask them for a more focused car like the CSL and let it be fitted with the ultra high revving N/A.
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      09-07-2009, 10:02 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by footie View Post
Yes the GT3 is Porsche's trackday special and as such it's fitted with a N/A engine, but seriously guys, who here think the M3 is closer to the GT3 in product placement than the 997turbo.

If you think the GT3 then you seriously need to get a grip on reality, the M3 is more of a daily driver the even a 997turbo, never mind the more extreme GT2 or GT3.

Let BMW fit the M3 with a turbo and then ask them for a more focused car like the CSL and let it be fitted with the ultra high revving N/A.
IŽd buy that! But then there is someone like me that wants creature comforts but great tracking.
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      09-09-2009, 07:45 AM   #233
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Here's a press release for the new McLaren supercar:

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/08/m...mages-surface/

It's got a high revving (8500RPM) turbocharged V8 making 433 ft-lb peak torque, and is coupled with a DCT (McLaren calls it SSG).

Obviously this car will cost a lot more than an F3x M3 (or even F1x M5), but here's an example of a motor that combines high RPM with forced induction. And DCT too. With only 114 ft-lb per liter, obviously there is not a lot of boost here. Perhaps something along these lines can make its way into the next M cars. Oh and another thing is that McClaren says this has the highest power to CO2 ratio of any engine on the market, though that in and of itself doesn't say much. There's also no word on efficiency i.e. fuel mileage other than "class-leading" which in this segment probably does not take much.
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      09-09-2009, 01:47 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Here's a press release for the new McLaren supercar:

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/08/m...mages-surface/

It's got a high revving (8500RPM) turbocharged V8 making 433 ft-lb peak torque, and is coupled with a DCT (McLaren calls it SSG).

Obviously this car will cost a lot more than an F3x M3 (or even F1x M5), but here's an example of a motor that combines high RPM with forced induction. And DCT too. With only 114 ft-lb per liter, obviously there is not a lot of boost here. Perhaps something along these lines can make its way into the next M cars. Oh and another thing is that McClaren says this has the highest power to CO2 ratio of any engine on the market, though that in and of itself doesn't say much. There's also no word on efficiency i.e. fuel mileage other than "class-leading" which in this segment probably does not take much.
Wow, a very nice all around vehicle. Lovely!
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      09-09-2009, 04:32 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorBlue371 View Post
Im sure that McLaren will be a performance monster,


And this is a GREAT example that high revving F/I engines are possible
Yep, just about anything is "possible" really.
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      09-09-2009, 04:46 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorBlue371 View Post


Which is why its amazing that so many people are hating on the new car before ever seeing it.
A lot of M3 owners here are two faced. The same one's who knock the next generation M3 will be the first ones in line ordering one. I'll side with the company who brings us these amazing cars.
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      09-09-2009, 05:32 PM   #237
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Wrong bmwcadet. With all do respect. A third sense will always steer you right. Porsche did it right and so did Amg. Never did they ever do anything like this to their people. You don't scrap a free reving engine like this to a turbo. M3's were known for reving forever. My sense is telling me to bail. My last m3 e 92 is in my garage. Thay have a good discusion on m3forum about this. Check it out. I believe it is about sticky giving up on bmw ...
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      09-09-2009, 05:57 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorBlue371 View Post
Im sure that McLaren will be a performance monster,


And this is a GREAT example that high revving F/I engines are possible

this is what I have been saying numerous times in this thread, lets just wait and see what BMW offers us for the next generation M3. If you/we don't like it, we wont buy it! Thats it!
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      09-09-2009, 06:22 PM   #239
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^ You're right, it is a fairly simple concept. If consumers do not buy the product, manufacturers will be forced to alter that product to meet consumer demand. However, I agree with BMWCadet, people will still stand in line to get their ass in the leather seat of the newest generation M3. Whether it is "better" or not, we will just have to wait and see.
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      09-09-2009, 06:36 PM   #240
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I won't buy ANY turbo car, no matter how good it is, but it's quite obvious the trend now is towards more efficient vehicles. Unfortunately, that takes time to turn around, so for the next M3, will probably see an F3x similarly sized to the E9x, but with a more efficient engine (smaller twin-turbo 6, as it was announced). But maybe the next iteration will be back to E46 size with an NA motor. At one point, the power wars will have to come to an end IMO, at least on main stream sporty cars like the M, leaving exotics as the only high-powered cars. We'll see soon enough .
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      09-09-2009, 08:23 PM   #241
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I won't buy ANY turbo car, no matter how good it is, but it's quite obvious the trend now is towards more efficient vehicles. Unfortunately, that takes time to turn around, so for the next M3, will probably see an F3x similarly sized to the E9x, but with a more efficient engine (smaller twin-turbo 6, as it was announced). But maybe the next iteration will be back to E46 size with an NA motor. At one point, the power wars will have to come to an end IMO, at least on main stream sporty cars like the M, leaving exotics as the only high-powered cars. We'll see soon enough .
good points. i wouldn't mind seeing a return to the E46 size.

what would be the effect of reducing the literage of the S65 to 3.0 and increasing the revs, it would obviously be more F1-esq. im playing devils advocate obviously, but what would that do for reliability, fuel economy, performance ranges etc?

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      09-09-2009, 09:18 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorBlue371 View Post


Which is why its amazing that so many people are hating on the new car before ever seeing it.
ThereŽs always gotta be two sides and no car can please everyone, just most. There are also trends and if there is change going on, it better be in you. In this case, most are going with turbos (not even SC) etc... of course, there is always a special place for NA engines such a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche to a large extent, Aston, and yes, M before 2009, etc... but there is nothing to say that all these wonŽt some day go into turbos or for that matter that those that do cannot produce anything short of specular.
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