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      04-25-2009, 08:10 PM   #1
M3V8Driver
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OEM Michelin PS2 Toasted after 2500 miles!

So there I am running time trials today... two practive sessions and then two times sessions. Car is all stock, like the day I picked it up, except it has 2500 miles on the clock.

About the end of the second practice, I started to notice the tires getting REAL slippery, as in understeering into a corner and oversteering going out... like I was overdriving the car, but not going very fast. It just refused to stick. Ambient temp was 75 F and is was dry and sunny. Then I started to notice a vibration in the front left upon slowing for a couple of laps to see if they'd come back in. Nope.

Pulled into the pits, looked at the tires, and the rubber is rolled over at every circumfrential grove! Three of the tires are effectively shot! Overheated? Maybe I can get them shaved? The only good news is that the only car that bested my time was a GTR... the car I was going to get before getting the M3.

Last edited by M3V8Driver; 04-26-2009 at 07:31 AM.
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      04-25-2009, 08:16 PM   #2
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Either you drive like like a nut or the previous driver did. I got 14,000 miles and 10 20min. track sessions out of my set of PS2s.
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      04-25-2009, 08:25 PM   #3
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The previous driver? I'm the original owner. I only had it at the track one other day, for four 20 minute sessions. So overall, it's been on the track for a total of about two hours. BeaveRun is known for not being tire-friendly, but this is ridiculous. The tires are now only good to live out their days on the street, unless I shave them, which I might try. Did you put all your miles on your tires before going to the track, or did you go to the track early, like me, and then finsih the tire up on the street?
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      04-25-2009, 08:31 PM   #4
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mine are about gone at 5k but i drive crazy lol
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      04-25-2009, 08:38 PM   #5
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The PS2's are just a little soft for the track. They can get greasy after about 15 min depending on how hard you are driving.

-jscott
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      04-25-2009, 09:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jscott View Post
The PS2's are just a little soft for the track. They can get greasy after about 15 min depending on how hard you are driving.
I guess you could say I was driving pretty hard. After all, I was going for time. So, about 9.5 10ths

I was hoping to best the times I turned in my '93 RX-7 on street tires (Kumho Ecsta MX), but didn't come close. About three seconds off, and it's only a 1.56 miles track.
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      04-25-2009, 11:50 PM   #7
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Really strange. I was at Sebring this past week and I got a ride in an E90 M3 on stock PS2. All out 40 minute session and no problems. That was the third session of the day. Sebring is pretty rough on tires and we were commenting how well they were holding up. By the end of the day they were getting a little slippery.
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      04-25-2009, 11:57 PM   #8
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that happen to one my my friend's car in thailand too. She has 18" PS2 with delivery miles. She used her car for 3 days then her rear tires blown up on expressway
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      04-26-2009, 12:14 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3V8Driver View Post
The previous driver? I'm the original owner. I only had it at the track one other day, for four 20 minute sessions. So overall, it's been on the track for a total of about two hours. BeaveRun is known for not being tire-friendly, but this is ridiculous. The tires are now only good to live out their days on the street, unless I shave them, which I might try. Did you put all your miles on your tires before going to the track, or did you go to the track early, like me, and then finsih the tire up on the street?
That was my first impression too, you bought a slightly used M3 with 2500 on the clock.
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      04-26-2009, 12:27 AM   #10
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Why don't you get a set of track tires/rims?

I think hoping that street tires are going to stand up to an 80 min track session and still be long lasting on the street isn't realistic.

Did you see the Top Gear where they corded a C63 tire after 35 miles on the track?
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      04-26-2009, 12:34 AM   #11
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ps2's don't last long on the track (or street for that matter). try a set of toyo t1r's. i've had better wear than any of the 2 sets of ps2's i've had on my car. the performance is almost identical IMO
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      04-26-2009, 07:44 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirploppy View Post
Why don't you get a set of track tires/rims?
I think hoping that street tires are going to stand up to an 80 min track session and still be long lasting on the street isn't realistic.
I've been keeping an eye out, but haven't been able to find anything lightweight with the perfect offset at a reasonable price. Custom is too expensive for me. I might just buy somebody's used set of OEM 18s and slap some r-compounds on them.

80 minute track sessions are unheard of. They're usually 15-30 minutes. I don't expect the PS2s to last long, but I did expect them to perform better on the track. Very disappointed, and will not buy another set when it comes time to replace them. I ran Kumho Ecsta MX's on my RX-7 and thought they were plain awesome. They performed almost as well as r-comps at the track and lasted a respectable 5000-7000 miles on the street. They are the only tire I ever felt confident driving on to the track, then driving on the track, and then driving home on them and then to work the next day.
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      04-26-2009, 07:55 AM   #13
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Not surprising. I had a similar experience at NHIS last year. They get greasy and trashed. R compounds are a good investment; PS2s are expensive and don't last.
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      04-26-2009, 09:44 AM   #14
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I spent two days at RoadAmerica on PS2s in my e46 M3 with full track suspension and brakes. They certainly had less traction than my R-compounds, but they held up beautifully. I took out my 500 hp RS6 to Brainerd for a day and beat the hell out of a set of PS2s. I only ended up getting 8000 miles out of the set, but they didn't go away on me and I was drifting the car out of corners, so I wasn't being easy on it.
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      04-26-2009, 03:59 PM   #15
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Sounds like people have had different experiences. I wish I had taken a picture of the front set before I got rid of them. They were beat. The rears were fine though.
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      04-26-2009, 04:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Not surprising. I had a similar experience at NHIS last year. They get greasy and trashed. R compounds are a good investment; PS2s are expensive and don't last.
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      04-26-2009, 05:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC919 View Post
Either you drive like like a nut or the previous driver did. I got 14,000 miles and 10 20min. track sessions out of my set of PS2s.

I don't know but I 've heard of really good drivers with similar experience on coarse pavement/tight course with PS2's on the E9X M3's.

Not so much about the OP driving skills,maybe the tire pressure was too low just speculating.
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      04-26-2009, 06:28 PM   #18
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Three track days (One at Laguna Seca, two at Thunderhill) and my stock PS2s are fine. Now I won't say they didn't get greasy on the track - One of the days at Thunderhill was with a 25 minute session in the middle of the day and the backend was all over the place towards the end of those those long runs. But besides a little melty rubber that came off cleanly on the drive home I wouldn't say they were trashed.

+1 to what lucid suggested though - I'm pricing out and deciding on track rims/tires because, yeah, PS2s are expensive and better for grippy street driving temperatures/punishment than track. But I have close to 8k on these tires and they're fine.
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      04-26-2009, 08:51 PM   #19
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Some street tires to consider, Dunlop Star spec Z1's (if running 18's),the new Bridgestone RE-11's,both tires are faster than the PS2's.


When GRM did their 135ivs335ivsM3 comparison,here's one of the things they said:
"If there were any casualties,they were the front tires on the faster- and heavier-M3."

I have the RE-01's on my car,they're holding up really well,they might get greasy after a few runs back to back without cool down.
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      04-28-2009, 04:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3V8Driver View Post
The previous driver? I'm the original owner. I only had it at the track one other day, for four 20 minute sessions. So overall, it's been on the track for a total of about two hours. BeaveRun is known for not being tire-friendly, but this is ridiculous. The tires are now only good to live out their days on the street, unless I shave them, which I might try. Did you put all your miles on your tires before going to the track, or did you go to the track early, like me, and then finsih the tire up on the street?
Sorry was in a hurry when I read that first. I had a mixed mileage between track and street. I bought the car used in New Mexico with 3000 miles and at the time the tires looked virtually new as the dealer informed me that the previous owner was a 50yr old doctor with a number of M cars, but was very gentle with them (which I later confirmed from the original owner as I don't trust dealers much).

I drove it from New Mexico to Houston and with about 6000 miles I did my first track day with the PS2s. I did various days since on those tires, but no more than three 20min sessions per track day until right before I changed them.

I replaced the tires about two weeks ago and the things were virtually bald as I went to do an all day track seminar to finish them off. They were so bad that my braking distance was severely lengthened.

Like I said, I've gotten a set of the Bridgestone RE-11s on the OEM wheels, and I've done two 20min sessions on them so far. I'm about to get a new set of track wheel/tires as its just not feasible to let the DD tires get as used up as the PS2s, plus not all tracks are as tire friendly as the one I frequent. I'll be honest by saying that the cheaper price was a key factor in buying these over the PS2s. In the beginning I thought that they didn't grip as well, but once they had a little temp in them I think there a lot quicker than the PS2.

I like the RE-11s on track, as the previous poster said, they do get greasy if you do more than two 20 min sessions back to back. Generally, I wait during the session after me to let the car cool down b/c its often hot here in Texas and this allows the tires to cool down sufficiently.

I hope this helps, and I apologize for taking so long to respond.--JC
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      04-28-2009, 05:32 PM   #21
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Faced with all that German power I'm not surprised the French tire gave up so easily
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      04-28-2009, 08:45 PM   #22
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Maybe the secret is to put a decent amount of street miles on the PS2s before tracking them. I only had about 2000 the first time I tracked them.

I took some pictures of the right front tire (the "outside" tire in this case), but the pictures didn't show how bad the tire really is. I was hoping to capture the shadows the built-up rubber cause along the circumfrential grooves. It might take another couple of thousand miles for the vibration to lessen if I don't shave the fronts.

I ran the One Lap of America when it was required to run on Michelin (sponsor) tires, only back in 2000, the PS2 wasn't around. I forget the exact model of the tire, but it was probably the equivalent of a PS1. They seemed to hold up pretty good. The vent covered seven track events in seven days (Gingerman, Road Atlanta, Michigan International, Sebring, VIR, Lime Rock, and Nelson Ledges). These PS2s wouldn't stand a chance.

Last edited by M3V8Driver; 04-28-2009 at 10:11 PM.
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