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      04-22-2009, 06:51 PM   #1
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Where's the 1/4 mile times???

We need to get some 1/4 mile times to compare aftermarket mods. In my opinion this will be far better than dyno results. This is the real world and what all of us will be feeling when we drive our cars. The dyno results posted on this board are all over the place, even on stock cars. It's way to easy to manipulate the dyno to show gains. Many people don't even know how to use a dyno correctly to get accurate real world readings. Especially to show gains with ECU flashes. If you're not using the dyno correctly and go to tune the ECU you are doing nothing more than correcting your dyno mistakes. Here's a couple interesting reads on dynos

http://www.dinancars.com/bmw/technia...ern-bmw-engine

http://raceprecision.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=105

Of course every 1/4 mile pass will be different, but so is every dyno run. You need a good number and an average with the same driver. Baseline then with mods.
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      04-24-2009, 08:21 AM   #2
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No one's with me on some 1/4 mile times? Is this cause most bolt on mods won't show any improvement in 1/4 mile times?

The other good thing about 1/4 mile time comparisons is you can show improvements from mods such as weight reduction, differential gears, possible quicker shifts with ssk or clutch stops, suspension changes (although those are better on a track for a M3). No need to worry about how to setup a fan to get your scoops to work.
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      04-24-2009, 08:44 AM   #3
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You go first.

If you do your baseline on a dyno and then the after on the same dyno, with the same correction factors, then the difference is real. If you want to risk your rear end on a drag strip, then go ahead. I'm looking forward to your report.

Dave
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      04-24-2009, 10:04 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstep View Post
You go first.

If you do your baseline on a dyno and then the after on the same dyno, with the same correction factors, then the difference is real. If you want to risk your rear end on a drag strip, then go ahead. I'm looking forward to your report.

Dave
It takes a little more than just correction factor to get accurate dyno readings.

Your rear end isn't risked anymore on the drag strip than any time you drive your car. Unless you're not flooring it, in which case your aftermarket mods mean nothing anyway. If I had a local drag strip I'd be more than happy to post times.
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      04-24-2009, 10:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
It takes a little more than just correction factor to get accurate dyno readings.

Your rear end isn't risked anymore on the drag strip than any time you drive your car. Unless you're not flooring it, in which case your aftermarket mods mean nothing anyway. If I had a local drag strip I'd be more than happy to post times.
I'll disagree with you on that. These cars aren't made to run down the strip, they're made for the track.

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      04-24-2009, 10:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS32 View Post
I'll disagree with you on that. These cars aren't made to run down the strip, they're made for the track.
I agree these aren't drag race cars. But you're seriously telling me you don't think it can handle a few 1/4 mile runs to test out HP gains from mods? Now if you put some slicks on it you might start ending up with problems. Some track times to compare mods would be nice too, but it's going to be far harder to compare 10 or 20 hp gains on a full track.

I think many people would be shocked to see the thousands of dollars they're spending on mods are not going to give them the time gains they would expect in a 1/4 mile. Showing a .1 difference in 1/4 mile time looks a lot less impressive than showing 10Hp or so on a dyno.
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      04-24-2009, 12:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS32 View Post
I'll disagree with you on that. These cars aren't made to run down the strip, they're made for the track.
It's a valid point, but does it hold true for the e92? (Axle Breakage in specific)

Last edited by Oakleyguy; 04-24-2009 at 12:26 PM.
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      04-24-2009, 12:16 PM   #8
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I agree PG, but I think you only get cherry picked results from the aftermarket tuners here with their dynos too.

As for those worried about destroying their rear end... What about launch control? If your rears gonna blow why would launch control come from the factory?

I just think showing 10-20hp on a dyno (330 whp - 350 whp) looks far more impressive than showing 12.8 down to 12.7 or 12.65 on a 1/4 mile.

Like you said there's driver error, but there is also mechanic error on the dyno... No system is perfect for measuring gains. But actual driving from a dead stop on pavement is how my car really spends it's time, and that is where I'm concerned about performance gains showing. Not on a dyno staying still inside of a shop.
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      04-24-2009, 12:23 PM   #9
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I agree with dcstep that these cars will most likely not hold up all that well to repeated 1st gear full out high torque launches. That's not what they are designed for. This is speculation on my part as I don't have evidence to back it up, but I don't see the point of risking my car just to find out.
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      04-24-2009, 12:26 PM   #10
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Uhhh, dragtimes.com....
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      04-24-2009, 01:00 PM   #11
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yeah, what's the fastest recorded 1/4 mi time for the E9X M3? Anyone break into the 11's yet?
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      04-24-2009, 01:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS32 View Post
I'll disagree with you on that. These cars aren't made to run down the strip, they're made for the track.

+1 on that !

I would never launch it hard for 1/4 mile runs this is a track car for me and not a 1/4 mile car.
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      04-24-2009, 01:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
We need to get some 1/4 mile times to compare aftermarket mods. In my opinion this will be far better than dyno results. This is the real world and what all of us will be feeling when we drive our cars. The dyno results posted on this board are all over the place, even on stock cars. It's way to easy to manipulate the dyno to show gains. Many people don't even know how to use a dyno correctly to get accurate real world readings. Especially to show gains with ECU flashes. If you're not using the dyno correctly and go to tune the ECU you are doing nothing more than correcting your dyno mistakes. Here's a couple interesting reads on dynos

http://www.dinancars.com/bmw/technia...ern-bmw-engine

http://raceprecision.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=105

Of course every 1/4 mile pass will be different, but so is every dyno run. You need a good number and an average with the same driver. Baseline then with mods.

they are in the mid 13's................
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      04-24-2009, 01:30 PM   #14
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J08M3 you have a PM from me check it out, maybe it can help you

I've been looking on the dragtimes site and I spotted an e9X m3 with something like 12.3 if I remember right...
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      04-24-2009, 02:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS32 View Post
I'll disagree with you on that. These cars aren't made to run down the strip, they're made for the track.

yea, ever count how many more youtube videos there are of people totally wrecking their M3 on a road course (where it's designed for)? or even just on the street?

damage far exceeding a blown rear from a drag strip.
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      04-24-2009, 02:26 PM   #16
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I'm probably heading to the drag strip this tuesday. I'll let you guys know how it goes. I have a 6mt, AA ECU, AA pulley, Remus race exhaust and magnaflow x pipe. I will also be using a mixture of 93 and 100 octane.
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      04-24-2009, 03:06 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by ChitownM3 View Post
I'm probably heading to the drag strip this tuesday. I'll let you guys know how it goes. I have a 6mt, AA ECU, AA pulley, Remus race exhaust and magnaflow x pipe. I will also be using a mixture of 93 and 100 octane.
Low 12's maybe??
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      04-24-2009, 03:12 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
Low 12's maybe??
Im not the best of drivers, but that's what I'm looking for.
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      04-24-2009, 03:16 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
yea, ever count how many more youtube videos there are of people totally wrecking their M3 on a road course (where it's designed for)? or even just on the street?

damage far exceeding a blown rear from a drag strip.
Mechanical failure and driver error are two completely different things.
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      04-24-2009, 03:18 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Mechanical failure and driver error are two completely different things.
Absolutely true, but both are equally bad and it seems much more expensive when the crash is on a road course or street. Also seems to happen much more by amount of videos posted.
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      04-24-2009, 04:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
It takes a little more than just correction factor to get accurate dyno readings.

Your rear end isn't risked anymore on the drag strip than any time you drive your car. Unless you're not flooring it, in which case your aftermarket mods mean nothing anyway. If I had a local drag strip I'd be more than happy to post times.
Such as cooling the car properly and entering the data correctly. Most race shop dyno operators know how to do that and have proper cooling fans, etc.

You don't know much about drag racing do you? If you go to a serious track, there'll be traction enhancer in a concrete start box. The stress on the rear end, even with street tires, is several time the stress of autocross or lapping at a high speed track.

I used to run a 5.0 Mustang in ESP at SCCA and many of the guys also drag raced. The ESP rules limited them to stock splines and trannies. ALL that did more than a few drag runs either busted the tranny or twisted an axleshaft. This is like a Ennis, TX, which is a SERIOUS strip, with guys running 300 mph quarter miles. Still, even lesser strips will goop up the start box. It really stresses the rear end.

Like I said, if you don't believe me, take your M3 out and run three runs before and three after and tell us how it went. There's a reason the serious drag guys run 9" truck rear ends and 32-spline axles. There's not making much more hp than us and maybe double the torque.

The M3 is NOT designed to drag at pro strips. On the street you're ok, because the wheels will spin before you break anything, but the strip is another matter.

Dave
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      04-25-2009, 02:05 AM   #22
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I don't think any modern car is MADE for the stress of a drag strip. Doesn't stop people from bringing their cars out there.
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