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      07-21-2009, 10:34 AM   #133
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Ok, I have a bit of a dilemma. I looked quick at the tips when I received them a few days ago, but got a closer look today, and noticed something weird. I'd like your guys input. It is hard to tell from this pic, but if you look close you can see that the tips, although rolled at the end, are not double walled.



So the rounded edge at the end just sort of rolls back 180 degrees and then stops parallel to the outer edge (it doesn't roll all the way around so that it closes - hard to explain, hopefully you now what I mean. It makes sort of a "J" shape if you were to slice it). This creates sort of a cup all around the outer edge of the tip. I realize these are prototype tips, but what do you guys think about that.. I'm worried about some sort of harmonic or whistle, and it will be a huge pita and a lot of work to revert back if they do make noise. This is sort of a big risk in my mind.

I was really hoping they would be double walled like the other CYBA tips.. This is a really tough decision because they do look awesome and to be honest, just like the pics, its hard to spot that they are not double-walled from a distance, and I would guess that it gets even harder to spot once some exhaust soot adheres in there. Thoughts?

BTW, Sam and I are supposed to get together to weld this week, but that may or may not happen. No date set..
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Last edited by Subw00er; 11-13-2010 at 01:25 PM.
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      07-21-2009, 11:08 AM   #134
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I'd just use these tips and not worry about it. I think you'll be ok.
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      07-21-2009, 11:30 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subw00er View Post
Ok, I have a bit of a dilemma. I looked quick at the tips when I received them a few days ago, but got a closer look today, and noticed something weird. I'd like your guys input. It is hard to tell from this pic, but if you look close you can see that the tips, although rolled at the end, are not double walled.

So the rounded edge at the end just sort of rolls back 180 degrees and then stops parallel to the outer edge (it doesn't roll all the way around so that it closes - hard to explain, hopefully you now what I mean. It makes sort of a "J" shape if you were to slice it). This creates sort of a cup all around the outer edge of the tip. I realize these are prototype tips, but what do you guys think about that.. I'm worried about some sort of harmonic or whistle, and it will be a huge pita and a lot of work to revert back if they do make noise. This is sort of a big risk in my mind.

I was really hoping they would be double walled like the other CYBA tips.. This is a really tough decision because they do look awesome and to be honest, just like the pics, its hard to spot that they are not double-walled from a distance, and I would guess that it gets even harder to spot once some exhaust soot adheres in there. Thoughts?

BTW, Sam and I are supposed to get together to weld this week, but that may or may not happen. No date set..
Do they just slide over the original tips? If so, that design would make sense.
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      07-21-2009, 01:12 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Periokid View Post
Do they just slide over the original tips? If so, that design would make sense.
Ya, that would make sense. But no, sadly I'd have to grind off the old ones and weld these back on.
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Last edited by Subw00er; 07-21-2009 at 02:07 PM.
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      07-21-2009, 01:16 PM   #137
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double wall tips are much heavier probably wont notice the difference in looks anyways...put them on already
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      07-21-2009, 01:56 PM   #138
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I'd be very surprised if they have any annoying acoustics. Put em on!
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      07-21-2009, 02:04 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I'd be very surprised if they have any annoying acoustics. Put em on!
+1. Just verify it on your prototype. They're the best compromise between weight and looks: double-walled are heavier, and painted tubing (like Dinan) looks like crap IMO. Get that darn thing finished already .
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      07-22-2009, 03:32 AM   #140
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painted tubing (like Dinan) looks like crap IMO.
The Dinan exhaust tips are ceramic coated, not painted. They look great to me except the big logos on them.
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      07-22-2009, 03:25 PM   #141
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The exhaust is done! I might have time to install it tonight or tomorrow.

I decided to mount the tips per the group's suggestion, but in the end we couldn't use them. I'll explain why later.
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      07-22-2009, 04:19 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
The Dinan exhaust tips are ceramic coated, not painted. They look great to me except the big logos on them.
They're not tips man. Tips is something you SLIDE over the exhaust tubes, then weld them or clamp them. Dinan just painted (or whatever you want to call it) the tubes. I personally don't like that, but to each his own.

Can't wait to hear your creation man; hope it was time well invested .

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      07-22-2009, 04:32 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subw00er View Post
The exhaust is done! I might have time to install it tonight or tomorrow.

I decided to mount the tips per the group's suggestion, but in the end we couldn't use them. I'll explain why later.
I'm stoked, where's the pics?!
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      07-23-2009, 01:40 AM   #144
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Welp, after a long wait and a lot of work, the exhaust is INSTALLED!! All I have to say is... IT-SOUNDS-AMAZING.

It has the European sound that I was hoping would be accentuated a bit (but its accentuated a LOT ), sounds deeper and throatier, doesn't drone (Could be a placebo, but maybe just the tiniest of drone at 3K on the highway with them open - I'm taking maybe 5%. But when closed, there is no drone obviously), and it doesn't look too bad - looks very technical from the rear. When the valves are closed, its indistinguishable from stock.

The interesting part is that when the valves are open and you are just cruising, you can barely tell there is a change, especially if the windows are closed. I'm sure its a lot louder outside, but from the inside, the car is very well insulated. There is a nice slight burble/throatiness to the sound when just cruising - its the sound that should have been there from the start. But when you open it up, it comes alive. I cant get over the sound.. its like nothing I've heard before. Its not muscle car grunt, its not mechanical Porsche...its very hard to describe. The only way to describe it is by saying exotic European - somehow for me this descriptor makes sense. I'm hoping I'm able to catch the sound accurately on video.

This may also be placebo, but the car seems to rev easier - downshift blipping is addictive.

I dont notice any lag down low. It may feel a bit faster on the top end

I'll try post a write full write up later tonight. I took some iPhone videos, but they don't do it justice.
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      07-23-2009, 11:40 AM   #145
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Congrats on finishing the project. I am SO looking forward to videos / audio.
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      07-23-2009, 11:58 AM   #146
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Videos Videos Videos!!!!!!!!! Need to hear it!!!
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      07-23-2009, 12:03 PM   #147
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I'm wearing my mouse out refreshing this page!
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      07-23-2009, 12:04 PM   #148
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Can you tell us, what was the problem with the Cyba tips?

-Andy
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      07-23-2009, 01:36 PM   #149
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Congrats!! Now lets see some videos!!!
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      07-23-2009, 02:21 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by askiles View Post
Can you tell us, what was the problem with the Cyba tips?

-Andy
There was a design problem with the tips, and it is very hard to explain, but I'll try with the help of a couple pics

The inner wall of the double-walled BMW tip ends at about this red line on the drawing and butt-meets with the pipe that actually carries exhaust gases from the muffler:


If you look at this picture, from left to right is the muffler to the end of the tip. This is a cross-section drawing. As you can see, the outer layer of the tip is riveted to the part that is welded to the muffler (BTW, the exiting 2.5" pipe actually carrying the exhaust gases lies inside this outer welded pipe).

CYBA's tip required that we drill out the rivet, remove the BMW tip and weld back on his tip (to "Welded to muffler" in the pic). However, if we did this, there would be a 1/4" gap all around the exiting pipe before hitting the CYBA tip. The reason is that CYBA's tip did not have an inner wall, just an outer shell. This isnt so much of a problem but if you follow that gap backwards to the muffler, you realize that the "Welded to muffler" as pictured is not totally welded, its spot welded top and bottom, and as a result there are lots of gaps.


Our concern was twofold - one that gases may follow backwards past that 1/4 gap (at idle for example). And secondly, that as flow increased, it would draw air from around the spot welds and create a undesirable sound (like a whistle). The only way to fix this was with either a lot of gap filling, or fabricating an inner wall, and at this point, we just didnt want to invest that much more time.

{edit: here is a shot of the inside of the pipe}

I have suggested to CYBA that he make slip on type tips that would go over the OEM tips, and secure with maybe spot weld, clamp or screw. This would solve a lot of problems, not require the purchaser to drop the exhaust to install, and would not vary a lot from his current design. Although not totally functional and perhaps mildly lame on the surface, the fact that its not real would be hard to spot from a distance. After having taken off the exhaust and gone through the welding, I just cant imagine that amount of effort just to change the tip color. It is a big time and effort investment IMO, especially if you don't have a good friend like Sam!
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      07-23-2009, 11:42 PM   #151
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Ok here is the update from yesterday. You'll have to be patient on the videos. I should have time this weekend to take some. Onto the pics..

This is the top side of the exhaust. The driver's side is tacked and ready to weld. Still need to button up the right side. RE: the post above.. note the exhaust pipes - you can clearly see the gaps around the welded part of the tips where they meet the body of the muffler.


Just a detail shot showing the nice welds. I'm really happy with how they turned out!


This is a close-up detail of a couple spot welds Sam made to join the two skins together.


I'm getting ready to remove the old exhaust. I used rhino ramps, and put stands under the A-arms and the main weight of the exhaust and paint cans at the front of the exhaust. I removed the exhaust by myself and it wasn't too bad, but getting the hangers off was sort of a pita. I'll buy a tool next time. Strangely, getting them back on later was a piece of cake.


Old exhaust is out!


These are the hangers. You can also see the route my wiring takes for the passenger's side valve. I zip tied to the hanger mount and on the right side where there was an empty hole asking for a zip tie to be stuck in it.


I did use a self-tapping screw with a eyelet type zip tie to keep the wire out of the way here (this is the passenger side). I don't think I really needed this, but I wanted to be sure it stayed out of the way. Its screwed into the heat shielding. I think its thick enough to hold it.


This is the new exhaust ready to go on. We decided to fab up a nice little stainless steel logo plate. Its pretty neat how we did this. Sam did his patent swirl pattern over the plate, then I cut out some custom vinyl with his logo and adhered it on. Then we went over it with bead blast to cover up the swirly pattern. When I removed the vinyl, this is the effect you get. Its hard to photograph, but it looks nice in person. You can see this name plate through the rear grill or if you look underneath from a bit away.


The Samuel E Valvetronic is installed! I'm really digging that name plate.


Test fitting the driver's side. Looks good (thank God).


Passenger side is great too. Valve is open here to make sure that I center the valve on the hole.


Looks good. You can see the valve wire hanging here. The connector is quite large, but it is water resistant.


This shot is taken looking towards the rear driver's side corner of the car. The floor carpet is removed. The arrow shows the hole a I made. I looked around for a while to find an optimal spot. This was the easiest from an access position, it wasn't near any rotating parts, and I liked how it was on a rear facing vertical part of the car - not likely to be battered by water or the elements. I had to use the full size of the step bit to get the connector through. I'll sort out and slice a grommet for that area later, and if I cant find a suitable one, I'll just RTV the hell out of it.


I didn't feel like sourcing a switched wire and didnt want to run one to the front of the car, so I decided to see if I could take the lazy man's way out. This is showing a pull of only 7.3 mA. A dirty calculation revealed that it would be months before the wireless controller drained my battery, so I just tapped onto the battery directly. Over the winter, I'll just pull the fuse when I store it so it doesn't draw any current.


This is where I tapped into the battery. There were three choices that I saw but the place I put it had a little terminal screw, so it was perfect. This is the strangest battery cover I've ever seen. Those Germans sure like to over engineer! I grounded just above to the tie down strap screw. Easy! Note the little blue fuse holder I've added inline.


Installed:


Better installed pics and good videos are coming! In the meantime, here is a teaser video - a couple shots of the exhaust off (uninstalled) and one at the end of the Bates on there.. PLEASE NOTE that it does not really sound like this in person. I have a mic, but still need to learn how to use it properly.. need more experimentation to get it right. I shot the Bates video with a bass reduction, so it sounds a little tinny. Anyway, enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/v/VAqfW5k6XcY&hl=en&fs=1
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Last edited by Subw00er; 07-29-2011 at 09:33 PM.
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      07-24-2009, 02:08 AM   #152
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Fantastic. What a project (I'm repeating myself...). One small suggestion - I think it would look much better with some short exit tips right on top of the valve.
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      07-24-2009, 02:10 AM   #153
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Nice job ... Very cool
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      07-24-2009, 03:11 AM   #154
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Sounds very throaty!
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