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      08-30-2009, 05:32 AM   #199
SenorFunkyPants
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Have you run the car on a dyno to see if there is any bhp gain with the valves open?
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      08-30-2009, 12:46 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Have you run the car on a dyno to see if there is any bhp gain with the valves open?
Actually, yes, what a timely post of yours. I just got back! While at the dyno, I installed a MS air filter. I read that this gives some gains, and I thought it would be interesting to do a comparison with the valves open and closed with the MS installed vs the OEM filter. I did two runs in each configuration, data is as follows:

DynoDynamics Dyno
2 runs
HP/TQ
87.4 deg F (Hot! )

Closed w/stock air filter:
1. 347.7/262 (the operator made some change after this run, so I'm not sure these values are accurate, but I'm posting it anyway)
2. 350.8/257

(Just want to interject and say that at roughly 351HP, that is almost exactly 414HP as claimed by BMW, minus the 15% tranny loss - nice to know I don't have a lemon! It also shows that our dyno setup was pretty accurate.)

Open w/stock air filter:
1. 347.3/254
2. 354.0/258

Closed, MS filter:
1. 352.5/256
2. 356.3/254

Open MS filter:
1. 358.4/255
2. 358.5/259 <-- best run

I said this back in an earlier post, but I never went into this project expecting massive gains from a cat-back exhaust. I knew that aftermarket cat-back exhausts provide little by way of gains (maybe 10-15hp), so my main goal was for a great sound. I was not happy with the quietness of the oem exhaust coming from a Corvette Z06, and I wanted a little more excitement and driver-connection back there.

But I was really happy to see that the exhaust and MS filter did give some gains. There was quite a bit of variation, but this is to be expected I guess - Dyno testing has many variables. Overall though, it is clear that the exhaust and filter do show gains. I was worried initially that perhaps I was ruining either the HP or power curve of the car by modifying the exhaust, but as you can see, the Bates just enhances it a little (about 4HP up top). Adding in the filter realizes another 4.5HP for a total gain of about 8.5HP. I think under proper testing (lower temps/humidity, stronger fans), or on a less conservative dyno, the #'s would be closer to 15HP-20HP in gains that many others promote.

Onto the pics..

This was our setup. I was a little bummed about the fan we had access to, a small one from Lowes. I have read that proper airflow into the three vents of the M3 can massively increase observed HP. I think it was Dinan who showed that they could gain as much as 20% (yes percent) just by adding in fans. As you can see we just aimed it towards the front. In retrospect, I should have aimed it at the lower driver's side vent.


BTW, it was also quite a warm and humid day!


Here is the dyno graph with all of the highest HP runs posted for the day. Note that the Bates does not significantly change the curve of the graph and does not show the common dip below 3K with some other aftermarket exhausts.


Stock air filter:


MS air filter:

Overall it was a great day. I took some video, maybe I'll post it later.

Cheers!

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DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740

Last edited by Subw00er; 11-13-2010 at 01:00 PM.
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      10-19-2009, 01:37 PM   #201
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PROPS!!!!! Very Very impressed!

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      11-25-2009, 01:11 AM   #202
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I agree that everything sounds amazing, but the looks are sort of a turn off.

I was brainstorming and came up with some solutions. Now my solutions depend on a valve with a smaller control mechanism, or one that can withstand the heat inside the muffler housing.

Here was my first idea:



But then I thought to myself, If that could be done so could this, although it would not provide as clean a look, as there would still be a hole in the muffler... but it is a lot less obtrusive than the current set up:



On all of the mechanical devices blessed upon us by God, there has to exist a valve that can fit inside that chamber, and have a mechanism that can withstand the heat.
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      11-25-2009, 09:20 AM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philritter21 View Post

On all of the mechanical devices blessed upon us by God, there has to exist a valve that can fit inside that chamber, and have a mechanism that can withstand the heat.
We thought of this idea first as well. There are no small enough valves or ones that withstand the heat. I contacted every valve manufacturer and they all stated the motors would not hold up.

BTW the pic makes it look like there is a lot of space in there, but in reality its far too small. The pipes are so close that I dont think there is one place inside where the flange would fit around a pipe. Then you get into creating a new shell for the exhaust and that is a ton of work. The way I've done it is the cleanest. I thought a lot about this before setting out.

I am still confused about the looks. On the car I think they look great and I personally have no desire to modify the look. I wish people could see it in person. Even mechanics and car enthusiasts need a GOOD pointing out to actually see them, they are much more hidden than the pictures portray. You really have to duck under or stand WAY back to see them, and even then you have to be looking for them to notice. Its just not that obvious. The only people that would even notice are M3 nerds that have already changed their own exhausts and to be honest, there are none of them around here; its a very small # of people that a visual mod would satisfy, so imo its not worth the effort. I guess its opinion, but open your minds up a little, this is not a normal exhaust, so why make it look like one!?

Anyway, I'm super happy with the results, and I LOVE this exhaust. I have gobs of people stopping what their doing to look to see what the sound is... I have people stopping me to ask what exhaust it is, or tell me how it sounds like Spitfire. Its a VERY unique sound, I am sure of this now that I've owned it for a while. IMO, the exhaust is faultless, but to some maybe its not pretty. Welp, even if there is that a negative to a select few, the positives FAR outweigh that one. Nothing is perfect, and anyone who mods their cars knows that EVERY mod has some negative aspect, and when you consider the positives vs the negatives for the Bates, its an easy equation, yes, even for a M3 nerd.
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Custom Exhaust Project: Bates Valvetronic exhaust: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253661 -- Exhaust Mod pics in here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40236795@N03/
DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740

Last edited by Subw00er; 11-26-2009 at 09:49 AM.
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      11-25-2009, 09:27 AM   #204
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Nice work!! You will have to take a spin up to Toronto one of these days - I know there are a bunch of people here that would love to check it out!
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      11-25-2009, 01:14 PM   #205
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No, no you come south. Its warmer here!
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DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740
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      11-25-2009, 01:47 PM   #206
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Quote:
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No, no you come south. Its warmer here!
Lol - I am not so sure about that! Maybe we will have to hold a meet in Miami! I think the Canadian Regional forum was going to make you an honorary Canadian since you have more posts there than some of the long time members!
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      11-25-2009, 04:54 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypod View Post
Lol - I am not so sure about that! Maybe we will have to hold a meet in Miami! I think the Canadian Regional forum was going to make you an honorary Canadian since you have more posts there than some of the long time members!
Do I?!? I never pay attention to what forum I'm in. I just look at the new message list.
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      11-26-2009, 12:32 AM   #208
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Thanks for info Subw00er and glad your exhaust is still rocking.
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      11-26-2009, 10:13 AM   #209
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Thanks Lucid.

BTW for people concerned about the price. I just had a through for those that wanted to have less of a barrier for entry. To save about $600 on the cost of the valves, we would provide (free) water-jetted cutouts that would go over the new pipe exiting holes. They would essentially block the exhaust gases with a flat plate. We could design it such that it would pivot on one bolt and secure with another, so you would just have to loosen one bolt and swing the plate out of the way if you wanted it louder, then swing it back closed and tighten the bolt when you want it stock sounding.

Now, this would obviously take a little more effort, but it saves a good chunk of the cost of entry, allows you to play with an experience the sound change (at any opening size), and would be free! It would allow those that feel a $3Kish exhaust would be too much money to get into the Bates and then later, if wanted, could add the valves and/or remote switch) to make it the full deal.

Sam and I decided we could reduce the cost of the mod to $1799
(from $2100) for the first 4 people to help get the word out and get some exposure.
We will just ask that you post pictures and a video.

So you could basically get the Bates "LE" for around $1950 after you (or I) procure an OEM exhaust (or send us yours and save $200).

BTW, we would be happy to weld any aftermarket tips you send us for free. Or, hey get them painted matte black.

PS- if we do obtain the first 4 people to go in, we will be signing up as a forum sponsor.
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DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740
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      11-26-2009, 11:12 PM   #210
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Sub,

sounds really good:-) glad to see you got everything to work out and meet your expectations, all that hard work paid off! congrats.
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      01-13-2010, 03:49 PM   #211
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How much louder is this versus no muffler?
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      01-13-2010, 04:25 PM   #212
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Quote:
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How much louder is this versus no muffler?
It is quieter than no muffler. Exhaust still passes through the helmoltz chambers and some exhaust still passed though the muffler and out the regular tips.
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      01-13-2010, 04:57 PM   #213
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It is quieter. I'd say its about 20% quieter when the valves are open all the way compared to no exhaust at all (rear section removed). The tone is also nicer, smoother, less rough.

BTW, the loudness changes depending on how open I have the valves.
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DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740
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      01-15-2010, 01:45 PM   #214
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ah
thanks
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      05-24-2010, 01:24 PM   #215
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hey sounds great

How much is this modification, can i do it myself or can i purchase from you
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      05-24-2010, 02:01 PM   #216
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read up further.. parts costs are there. some others have done a less extensive (and drone inducing) version by putting the valves in mid-system. Some also have gutted the stock box and sealed holes for a similar (non adjustable) effect.
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      05-25-2010, 10:44 PM   #217
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i had dual mechanical vacuum actuated valves (custom exhaust) in my MKIV VW R32 which
had an aftermarket HPA turbo system. it held up fine from the heat pm me with your email
and ill shoot you over some pictures of the valves if you're interested. i want to say they
are 2.25 and lambo has the same "flapper" but in a 2.5" variation.
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      03-14-2011, 10:33 PM   #218
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i have an oem E92 exhaust laying around if you need it let me know im willing to sell it
or just get my very own exhaust cause that sounds amazing
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      05-25-2011, 11:00 PM   #219
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I just put my JEGS valves on.. so far so good. They respond smoother than the Race Ready Performance ones, and look about as well, actually better, made. The main problem with the RRP cutouts is that their motor is not sealed and water gets in and corrodes the motor. I'd never taken that black cup off of the motor until recently and OMG the amount of corrosion in there was immense. They didnt even use a sealed motor?! WTF?

The JEGS is a sealed unit and the wiring is not exposed, a much better setup I think, and I guess time will tell. I was able to use all of my old wiring, including the race ready wireless remote module, which was good. I just cut the wires from my RRP doorstops and put on some blade connectors for the JEGS.. easy.

The only design improvement as far as I can tell the RRP cutouts have over the JEGS is the slotted install holes which make it easier to align them nicely.. just gives more flexibility. RRP also uses a nice waterproof connector, which is actually really humorous considering that their entire motor is exposed. Hey, at least it LOOKED good, right?

I think my only real complaint on the JEGS is the finish. Its a chromed look and it makes my valves look a bit more noticeable. Beyond that, I have nothing bad to say.. great price, JEGS support..
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DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740
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      08-20-2011, 02:39 PM   #220
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Has anyone tried this on the new M Performance exhaust?
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