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      04-17-2009, 06:13 AM   #1
footie
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M3 rivalling VW GOLF !!!!!

VW Golf R45

Though this possibility sounds ridiculous to me the very fact that it's made it's way into World Car Fans website means it is possible no matter how remote. A Golf with a possible 390hp and a guesstimate 360ft/lbs should place it's performance very close to an M3 and as anyone who has had the pleasure of driving a R32 will know that they have very high cornering capabilities and are a hoot to drive while still being practical.

I understand it's true rival will be the future M version of the 1 series but one can't look pass the figures and say 'holy shit, it's an M3 contender'.
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      04-17-2009, 06:44 AM   #2
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VW Golf R45

Though this possibility sounds ridiculous to me the very fact that it's made it's way into World Car Fans website means it is possible no matter how remote. A Golf with a possible 390hp and a guesstimate 360ft/lbs should place it's performance very close to an M3 and as anyone who has had the pleasure of driving a R32 will know that they have very high cornering capabilities and are a hoot to drive while still being practical.

I understand it's true rival will be the future M version of the 1 series but one can't look pass the figures and say 'holy shit, it's an M3 contender'.
You are a sly devil...

I can hear the M faithful plotting revenge and lighting torches as we speak.

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      04-17-2009, 06:58 AM   #3
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Golf R45 FTMFW!!!

NOT!
at the end of the day, you're still driving a golf
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      04-17-2009, 07:04 AM   #4
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Golf R45 FTMFW!!!

NOT!
at the end of the day, you're still driving a golf
lool, slap in the face
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      04-17-2009, 07:10 AM   #5
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lool, slap in the face

+1

Better buy a EVO X and tune it to 500BHP.


It's just like saying a M3 is in Mercedes S Class S500 territory because it has more power than the S500, LOL.

Different classes, different cars.

(btw footie, how much is VAG paying you, If I may ask)
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      04-17-2009, 07:25 AM   #6
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It will never be an M.
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      04-17-2009, 07:49 AM   #7
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Pardon me for bring this to your attention. I already said that it's probably VW's answer to the 1 series M car but I was only highlighting the fact that the power to weight ratio should give similar performance to an M3.

Everyone knows it's no M3 and is only a Golf at the end of the day but then again there is lots of people who can't afford an M3 but would still love the performance, practicality all wrapped up with German quality but in something that's more affordable.

Appologizes for starting the thread and please either close it or reposition it to a part of the forum where it won't offend the regular M3 owners among us.
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      04-17-2009, 09:31 AM   #8
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I'll never own another VW/Audi. However I do still love the R32, so I can only imagine one with more power being awesome. The R32 engine is a jewel, and very few engines sing a prettier song. It also has one of the best interiors in a sports car I've ever seen. However it is too damn heavy for its class/size, with quite a bit of weight over the front wheels, and could use more power to put it in the EVO/STi class, especially for what VAG charges for admission. All in all it is a really good car, and more power makes everything better. I applaud them if they do build it, but I doubt they will in this economic climate. I still don't think it will be whipping M3's around a track, so everyone can calm down.
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      04-17-2009, 09:59 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Irb Digital View Post
I'll never own another VW/Audi. However I do still love the R32, so I can only imagine one with more power being awesome. The R32 engine is a jewel, and very few engines sing a prettier song. It also has one of the best interiors in a sports car I've ever seen. However it is too damn heavy for its class/size, with quite a bit of weight over the front wheels, and could use more power to put it in the EVO/STi class, especially for what VAG charges for admission. All in all it is a really good car, and more power makes everything better. I applaud them if they do build it, but I doubt they will in this economic climate. I still don't think it will be whipping M3's around a track, so everyone can calm down.
That is exactly my point. Never in my mind would it provide the same driving experience that the M3 can give and though it may get reasonably close to lap times (checkout the R32 vs E46 Topgear lap times). The point of this thread was to highlight that even VW are potentially making a super hi-performance car that will produce figures similar to an M3.
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      04-17-2009, 10:03 AM   #10
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I've had a few VW's myself including one of the first 1.8T's back in April 2000 when they were first released.

Audi makes one of the best interiors in the biz, and VW's aren't far behind that. Most VW's interiors are better than BMW's that cost many thousands more.

I don't get it when people say, "at the end of the day it's still a golf"

The EVO at the end of the day is a Lancer, but if it's great and the you get a lot for your money, what's the point?
Their have been sports car not too many years in the past that cost 2-3 times as much but weren't built as well as a golf chassis.
What if the next Golf chassis is as rigid as the M3's as balanced as any FWD based car ever has been?
Is saying "it's still a Golf" really relevant or just something to be said to make owners who spent many times more on a car feel better about their purchase?

VW's issue for the last decade or so is they are always catching up when it comes to performance. They don't seem to want to lead the pack. When the R32 came out it was too little too late (and a bit too expensive).
Then when the current GTI came out they could of made an R36 with the Passat's 3.6 liter in there but tuned to 290-300 hp instead of the Passat's 280. But they kept the same underpowered 3.2L engine in it at the 240-250 hp rating. They could of figured out a way to place the 3.6 .5-1 inch further back in the engine bay to help with weight distribution and suddenly they'd of had a EVO and STI contender. Heck I might of even gotten it had they done that and kept the price at $40k

Now they are playing catch up again.
Pushing a 2.0 liter 4 banger to 300 hp is ridiculous to me.
It's too peaky of a powertrain. Too raucous and unrefined. Like the EVO's engine.
If they are going to use the Audi's I5 powerplant anyway, why not just make a low powered version with a smaller turbo (290-300 hp) and then a higher powered version with the 350+ hp they are desiring?

Further, again, VW is coming out with the newest GTI but making it 210 hp and 258 tq, from the updated 2.0T
210 hp is not enough of a bump and 258 tq is a bit high for FWD car of that weight....torque steer.
Why not tune it to 230-240 hp and 250 tq?
Then VW/Audi could drop the 3.2 V6 which is also underpowered for the 3.6 with 290+ hp as the upgraded V6 version in their cars.

But of course, they'll wait another 4-5 years to do that, once everybody else is is pushing over 300 hp in their V6's....oh wait everybody else, including Hyundai for fuk sake has over 300 hp in their V6 already.

This R45 (why 45 anyway) would be a monster with 350+ (or up to 390 as the article says).
I don't think people would cross shop it with an M3, but who knows. I've been considering an M3 myself as my next car, but a 390 hp AWD GTI that was under $45k would make me think twice that's for sure.
But personally I think it will steal too much of the Audi TT-RS's thunder so if they do release this car it will be a year or two behind the Audi and be at least 30-40 hp less I would think.
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      04-17-2009, 10:04 AM   #11
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I drove a stock R32, and was rather pleasantly surprised with it. I didn't enjoy DSG though, and the car didn't have a 6MT option.
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      04-17-2009, 10:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
I don't get it when people say, "at the end of the day it's still a golf"
no offense but it's just that no matter how good it gets
its still a pumped up econobox
to me, financially, i would rather buy an M3
than an entry level car that has been bosted to M3 levels of performance

a friend of mine was choosing between a mustang shelby GT500 and an m3
i told him basically
no matter how much HP the mustang has
its still a pumped up econo muscle car
the interior looks cheap
the seats look chep
everything about it shouts cheap car
when the M3 looks so much more upscale
so even though the mustang would probably be faster than the M3 in a straight line
you will always feel you are in a cheap car when you are not driving flat out
i do like the golf
it's one of the best cars in its size (at least the european one, not the ones assemebled in mexico)
but it ain't no M3
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      04-17-2009, 10:42 AM   #13
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But unlike the Mustang the Golf has an interior that for the most part is of a standard similar to BMW, especially in it's latest Mk6 form. My wife has a Mk5 GTI, has done for over 4 years between 2 cars and I still get as much pleasure driving it as the M3 and in no way does it feel of a standard that much below the BMW.

All I know is that if I couldn't afford an M3 but there was a high quality German branded car out there that give similar performance but cost possibly 2/3rd the price then I know I would be going for this before I would ever consider Mustang or Rice Racer.

In any case the chances of this thing making it to production is slimmer than me winning the lottery, which I don't currently do by the way.
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      04-17-2009, 11:25 AM   #14
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I really understand what you mean, footie.


I have a feeling like this, for example:

I put a supercharger on my M3 and tune it to >550BHP. Nice for what it is worth(I 'll never do that irl)

Then at a trackday or just in traffic I'm having a nice dogfight with for example a Ferrari F430, Porsche 997 GT3 or maybe a 997Turbo for that matter. I win that battle for some reason(let's say by 'sufficient' horsepower)....

But at the end of the day I still have a M3, and not a F430/997GT3/997Turbo.

Just an example, no worries.
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      04-17-2009, 12:19 PM   #15
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Most people who own the M3 shouldn't be theatened by a Golf with such power, it's not really a competitor in the true sense of the word, but the idea of such a car is a nice alternative to an EVO, Imperza or the like and possibly those people who's income is now affected by the economy and don't really want or can't now afford the M3.

The reality is that the driving experience will be totally different, what with one being RWD and the other AWD. My real concern is this M 1 series because it's potential could be quite close to the M3 and it will be RWD and weigh less, plus give the whole BMW style of ownership. If BMW make it too good then we will have a similar experience of secondhand value as M6 owners suffer because of the M3 being so good.
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      04-17-2009, 03:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Golf R45 FTMFW!!!

NOT!
at the end of the day, you're still driving a golf
the same arguement can be made for the m3, are you not driving a souped up 325? just my two cents.
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      04-17-2009, 03:31 PM   #17
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the same arguement can be made for the m3, are you not driving a souped up 325? just my two cents.
well souped up 328 is better than a rabbit
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      04-17-2009, 03:36 PM   #18
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well souped up 328 is better than a rabbit
i hear you. the name of bmw might have more behind it than the vw name but at the end of the day it is a car vs car. if the r spec of the car is better or keeps up with the m that is what matters. there are evos that can beet the m, from light to light or track to track it is the victory that counts.
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      04-17-2009, 04:51 PM   #19
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are you not driving a souped up 325?
Fuc--ng right I am.
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      04-17-2009, 05:40 PM   #20
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Fuc--ng right I am.
i guess you didn't see the intended sarcasm.
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      04-17-2009, 06:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
no offense but it's just that no matter how good it gets
its still a pumped up econobox
to me, financially, i would rather buy an M3
than an entry level car that has been bosted to M3 levels of performance

a friend of mine was choosing between a mustang shelby GT500 and an m3
i told him basically
no matter how much HP the mustang has
its still a pumped up econo muscle car
the interior looks cheap
the seats look chep
everything about it shouts cheap car
when the M3 looks so much more upscale
so even though the mustang would probably be faster than the M3 in a straight line
you will always feel you are in a cheap car when you are not driving flat out
i do like the golf
it's one of the best cars in its size (at least the european one, not the ones assemebled in mexico)
but it ain't no M3
No offense taken. I guess I'm just not so into the "name" thing.
A good car is a good car. And a car that is good and fun to drive and enjoyable to be in, price doesn't matter too me.
I had a hoot driving my 1989 GTI.
I don't care if the car is $20k or $90k, it's not the label that matters to me.
I don't own Armani suits either, as their are plenty of other brands that are respectable and look just as nice and are made just as nice but cost 1/2 the amount.
To me a nice Bulova tells the same time as a Rolex.

Some are just into the image and feel they need that to feel important or good about themselves. Me, I'm a bit more practical and if it looks good, feels good, and is made good, I'll own it as long as it's not overpriced just for the name.

No of course the GTI is no M3, but to many a GTI can be just as fun to drive as the M3 and cost 1/3rd the amount.
If this R45 is as fast as the M3 in a straight line, handles as well, if not better, and is well balanced and fun to drive, with good ergos, etc. but cost $15-18k less who'se to say the M3 is the better car just because of a name and price?
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      04-17-2009, 07:03 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
+1

Better buy a EVO X and tune it to 500BHP.


It's just like saying a M3 is in Mercedes S Class S500 territory because it has more power than the S500, LOL.

Different classes, different cars.

(btw footie, how much is VAG paying you, If I may ask)
I don't know wether to agree or be insulted.

You guys are harsh.
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