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      04-24-2009, 11:59 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by footie View Post
GTR's time is down to 7:26.7 now from 7:27.6.
One of the techs must be turning up the boost. Oh wait, I'm supposed to believe Nissan has engineered a chassis capable of overcoming the fundamental laws of physics. Sorry, enjoy the marketing exercise Nissan is putting on, don't mind me.
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      04-24-2009, 12:47 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Garissimo View Post
One of the techs must be turning up the boost. Oh wait, I'm supposed to believe Nissan has engineered a chassis capable of overcoming the fundamental laws of physics. Sorry, enjoy the marketing exercise Nissan is putting on, don't mind me.
LMFAO i didnt know they hire magicians lmfaooo

GUYS , just for a record the GTR IS OFFICIALLY FASTER ON THE RING THEN A PONGA ZANDA NOW! LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A car with over 600hp, and a car which had the fastest speed i believe on the 6speed straight contest, and a car built from c/f and very light also....

SORRY LEMME GO LAUGH a little, boost is not enough to make the GTR that fast, this car needs to be much lighter......

p.s. for anyone here saying that a STOCK GTR can do the lap in 7:27 i think your the biggest idiot
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      04-24-2009, 01:05 PM   #113
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Upping the Ante

http://www.gtrblog.com/2009/04/24/nu...s-with-action/

Today Porsche have released a Nurburgring lap time for the 2010 Porsche 911 GT3. Even minus the snails, this Porsche can really motor packing 435 hp and one of the most tuned chassis that money can buy. Via Motor Trend today we learned that Andreas Preuninger, Project Manager at Porsche announced that itís capable of a 7:40 Nordschleife lap.

According to Motor Trend though, he goes further, and takes another swipe at Nissan. Apparently heís quite focused on this test they performed where they couldnít manage to get a GT-R under 7:54 at the same track.

Nissan says otherwise, and yesterday in testing, at the ĎRing one upped themselves again bettering their previous best of 7:27.56 by almost a second to reel off a mind bending 7:26.7. They havenít stopped either, another testing session is today.

Finer details on the GT-Rís new lap record forthcoming later and weíll be sure to update you.

UPDATE: As you can see here we have photos of the actual testing session from yesterday thanks to Kislik from NAGTROC. It seems this is the most likely candidate to have set this time as it is the only base model GT-R seen on the circuit yesterday. Itís a base Euro spec GT-R with standard wheels and tires.

PS. I know youíre all hanging out for SpecV lap times but Mizuno-san has not agreed to allow any to be published so far. There are many reasons this could be so hang in there.
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      04-24-2009, 01:40 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeldorian View Post
http://www.gtrblog.com/2009/04/24/nu...s-with-action/

Today Porsche have released a Nurburgring lap time for the 2010 Porsche 911 GT3. Even minus the snails, this Porsche can really motor packing 435 hp and one of the most tuned chassis that money can buy. Via Motor Trend today we learned that Andreas Preuninger, Project Manager at Porsche announced that it’s capable of a 7:40 Nordschleife lap.

According to Motor Trend though, he goes further, and takes another swipe at Nissan. Apparently he’s quite focused on this test they performed where they couldn’t manage to get a GT-R under 7:54 at the same track.

Nissan says otherwise, and yesterday in testing, at the ‘Ring one upped themselves again bettering their previous best of 7:27.56 by almost a second to reel off a mind bending 7:26.7. They haven’t stopped either, another testing session is today.

Finer details on the GT-R’s new lap record forthcoming later and we’ll be sure to update you.

UPDATE: As you can see here we have photos of the actual testing session from yesterday thanks to Kislik from NAGTROC. It seems this is the most likely candidate to have set this time as it is the only base model GT-R seen on the circuit yesterday. It’s a base Euro spec GT-R with standard wheels and tires.

PS. I know you’re all hanging out for SpecV lap times but Mizuno-san has not agreed to allow any to be published so far. There are many reasons this could be so hang in there.
ok, since the stock gtr IN SOME magazines has got a .93g and the same magazine got 1.12g's for a spec V....hmmmm all you gtr band wagoners, what you think the spec v will do around the ring?

7:15?

JUST SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT...

single handedly the GTR has beaten some cars that are way out of its league, im talking super super car material such as a zonga, which power to weight ratio crushes the GTR's, and has a low center of gravity with a very very advanced suspension per 6 speed testing, the zonga is a monster.

I will cut my balls off before i ever believe that a stock gtr can beat that IN THE BEST CONDITIONS, if idiots here want to believe the law of pyshics can be broken, wake up call it cant!!!!!!

Whats next? The enzo?....lmfao
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      04-24-2009, 02:37 PM   #115
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just curious if anyone knows if any other company has put this much emphasis on ring times as nissan has with the gt-r.
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      04-24-2009, 02:55 PM   #116
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single handedly the GTR has beaten some cars that are way out of its league, im talking super super car material such as a zonga, which power to weight ratio crushes the GTR's, and has a low center of gravity with a very very advanced suspension per 6 speed testing, the zonga is a monster.

I will cut my balls off before i ever believe that a stock gtr can beat that IN THE BEST CONDITIONS, if idiots here want to believe the law of pyshics can be broken, wake up call it cant!!!!!!
It's the "Pagani Zonda" (and Zonda F). The F's lap time was 7:32 by Sportauto and 7:27.8 by a Pagani test driver.

Keep in mind that almost everyone here believes and admits the GT-R has at least 530 hp stock and the same output for the cars used for these lap times. It also has near race sticky rubber, an ex F1 driver, a very advanced AWD system and a factory "assault" effort at the Ring.

The power to weight argument is still valid:

Zonda F, 602 hp, 2712 lb, ratio = 4.5 lb/hp
GT-R (at 530 hp), 3836 lb, ratio = 7.2 lb/hp

This was some of the first evidence I brought up as soon as the GT-R Ring times started coming in. The advantages that the Nissan have seem like they provide a snowballs chance in hell making up for a 60% worse power to weight ratio. Of course I would be willing to state with no uncertainty that with identical conditions, the same rubber and as near identically skilled drivers as possible, a 530 hp GT-R absolutely could not keep up with the Zonda F at the Ring. Of course that also assumes the Zonda's stated power and weight are accurate.
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      04-24-2009, 03:54 PM   #117
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Slightly off topic, but have you guys seen the specs on the Zonda R!?

~2350lb and 750hp

0-60 in 2.7 sec

Nuts!
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      04-24-2009, 05:29 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garissimo View Post
One of the techs must be turning up the boost. Oh wait, I'm supposed to believe Nissan has engineered a chassis capable of overcoming the fundamental laws of physics. Sorry, enjoy the marketing exercise Nissan is putting on, don't mind me.
Do you even know any fundamental physics laws?

If so, how 'bout you tell us just which fundamental laws of physics were overcome?

The best that the lucid/swamp consortium has come up with are probabilities, but I guess we can ignore all that with your new data.

Please educate us.
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      04-24-2009, 05:33 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC View Post
Do people really think you could buy a US spec GTR off the showroom floor, fly it over the the "ring"? Put Nissan's test driver in it and run a 7:27 lap. No fucking way. Sorry not going to happen.
I do in fact believe that the specific car in question is bone stock and off the production line.

Of course, Nissan made sure every little thing was right up to tippy-top spec.

Did they do more than that? They claim not.
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      04-24-2009, 05:38 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Boosted335 View Post
p.s. for anyone here saying that a STOCK GTR can do the lap in 7:27 i think your the biggest idiot
That would be me, for one. Of course, your intended insult would have had more punch if you could spell "you're" correctly.

How about you come up with something actually concrete to back up your shouted belief. At least lucid and swamp have some data to back up their belief, although it's incomplete.
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      04-24-2009, 05:39 PM   #121
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No, not almost everyone here believes those times, if they have an ounce of knowledge. You dont know how much hp the gtr has, but 530 and those times are not enough to cut it, as a matter of fact forget the power. Its more of a weight issue which changes the game around, and the whole characteristics of the car. the GTR has 1100 pounds more weight and an advertisied 122 less hp and ITS MAGICAL on a zonda's ass. We know that zanga was driven well after its there test driver...


Got any explanation?smart asses?

The zonga has just as good tires, just as good of a driver,

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
It's the "Pagani Zonda" (and Zonda F). The F's lap time was 7:32 by Sportauto and 7:27.8 by a Pagani test driver.

Keep in mind that almost everyone here believes and admits the GT-R has at least 530 hp stock and the same output for the cars used for these lap times. It also has near race sticky rubber, an ex F1 driver, a very advanced AWD system and a factory "assault" effort at the Ring.

The power to weight argument is still valid:

Zonda F, 602 hp, 2712 lb, ratio = 4.5 lb/hp
GT-R (at 530 hp), 3836 lb, ratio = 7.2 lb/hp

This was some of the first evidence I brought up as soon as the GT-R Ring times started coming in. The advantages that the Nissan have seem like they provide a snowballs chance in hell making up for a 60% worse power to weight ratio. Of course I would be willing to state with no uncertainty that with identical conditions, the same rubber and as near identically skilled drivers as possible, a 530 hp GT-R absolutely could not keep up with the Zonda F at the Ring. Of course that also assumes the Zonda's stated power and weight are accurate.
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      04-24-2009, 05:40 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
That would be me, for one. Of course, your intended insult would have had more punch if you could spell "you're" correctly.

How about you come up with something actually concrete to back up your shouted belief. At least lucid and swamp have some data to back up their belief, although it's incomplete.
any other spell checks you need to complete? Obviously you understood the sentence, so stop trying to be a smart ass.....
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      04-24-2009, 05:45 PM   #123
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..I will cut my balls off before i ever believe that a stock gtr can beat that IN THE BEST CONDITIONS, if idiots here want to believe the law of pyshics can be broken, wake up call it cant!!!!!!...
Well, I'm guessing that as of now, if Nissan pulled a random car out of the line in your presence, and you slept with the thing as it was shipped to the 'Ring, you still couldn't afford to believe it if it turned those times. Too much at stake.

By the way (and the real reason for this follow up) - nice job on the weight! I've lost 45 pounds so far, and know how tough that is. Of course, I have another 65 to go, the insurance statistics tell me...

Edit: I am not "trying to be a smartass". I am in fact a world class smartass. Still, hell of a job on the weight.
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      04-24-2009, 06:06 PM   #124
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Do you even know any fundamental physics laws?
"a = F / m" comes to mind. I don't know why this needs to be spelled out for you as you're the same guy who preaches that power to weight ratio is the only thing that matters in a straight line speed contest. The ring has an awful lot of straight, or semi-stragiht lines, in case you hadn't noticed.
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      04-24-2009, 06:26 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted335 View Post
No, not almost everyone here believes those times, if they have an ounce of knowledge. You dont know how much hp the gtr has, but 530 and those times are not enough to cut it, as a matter of fact forget the power. Its more of a weight issue which changes the game around, and the whole characteristics of the car. the GTR has 1100 pounds more weight and an advertisied 122 less hp and ITS MAGICAL on a zonda's ass. We know that zanga was driven well after its there test driver...


Got any explanation?smart asses?

The zonga has just as good tires, just as good of a driver,
You are putting yourself up for a mighty fall and no one is wanting to call themselves a smart ass, with the possible exception of Bruce.

You insist that in no way the GTR can possibly compete with the Zonda and all of this opinion is based of both weight and power, or to put it another way we are talking about power to weight ratio.

Well may I suggest you look to the CXX vs Zonda where I think the article was run by EVO. Anyway the CXX was the slowest there that day yet it had a huge power to weight advance over all of the other cars tested and was the slowest..............why?

Oh and can I add another example, the Bugatti Veyron with it's headline grabbing 1000hp and 1000Nm of torque, oh and that small nugget of out accelerating just about every other car on the planet and it's even awd to boot.

To me the simple answer is power and weight isn't everything and the bumpier the track the less both these things come into play and the more a perfectly balanced chassis and huge amount of traction pays dividends. After all there is only so much power that something can put to the surface and if the surface is poor in parts then it become a disadvantage more than the other way round. Power is your friend on the straights but too much of it can really be your enemy in the corners and were the straights are very short between those bends.

You clearly have your opinion on the GTR and it's abilities. I and some other take a totally different view and then there is some other sitting in the middle ground some where in between.

Personally I find your comments amusing but will refrain from explaining why that is.
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      04-24-2009, 06:52 PM   #126
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Quote:
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[...]
To me the simple answer is power and weight isn't everything [...]
That is a pretty good post, footie. Here's how I see it. Power to weight may not be everything but it is the dominant function on a track like the ring. If a car gets too heavy (Veyron) cornering speeds drop since you ask more and more of the tires and they can only grip so much, so there is an inflection point. This should not be the case with the Zonda though, as it weighs considerably less than the GT-R.

What it comes down to is that I put very little stock in a GT-R ring test orchestrated/scripted/produced by Nissan, especially when independent test of an actual production car shows drastically different results (DR).
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      04-24-2009, 07:50 PM   #127
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The Viper ACR and the ZR1 were faster, is it so hard to believe?

I've driven a student's GT-R at the track, and like any other car, it's 100% the driver and their experience that makes a car fast.... the GTR is ridiculously fast and easy to drive. It's not hype.

Driver + software + experience + confidence goes a long way.
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      04-24-2009, 09:12 PM   #128
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Another part of the equation is the braking. You can go as fast as you want, but the faster you go on the straights, the longer it takes to slow down. This is why I think Zonda's, etc aren't putting in even better laptimes.

The GTR was built and tuned for ring time. I'm sure they analyzed the incoming data and optimized the car right where it needs it. GTR is a ring car and nothing else. It so happens that you can get a pretty street decent car, optimizing for just the Ring. A great street car? No. But a darn good one.

I think 2 types of cars are being built here.

1. An all out fast car (Zonda)
2. A car optimized for just the ring. (GTR)

If Zonda or any other company focused solely on the ring time as Nissan did, I'm sure they can re-optimize the car (Using data analysis, simulation, etc) and start pushing some seriously crazy fast time.
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      04-25-2009, 01:11 AM   #129
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I'm just guessing here, but wouldn't it be harder for a car like the Zonda to put power on the ground by having sooo much power and so light on a bumpy track like the ring, especially without AWD. Could it be the reason why the GTR is able to be so close to the Zonda's time by having better grip and possibly better brakes. So in other words, having a better power to weight ratio doesn't necessarilly have an advantage if you can't put all that power to the ground properly by not having enough grip and insufficient brakes. Just guessing.
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      04-25-2009, 04:42 AM   #130
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I'm just guessing here, but wouldn't it be harder for a car like the Zonda to put power on the ground by having sooo much power and so light on a bumpy track like the ring, especially without AWD. Could it be the reason why the GTR is able to be so close to the Zonda's time by having better grip and possibly better brakes. So in other words, having a better power to weight ratio doesn't necessarilly have an advantage if you can't put all that power to the ground properly by not having enough grip and insufficient brakes. Just guessing.
Exactly. Some people are throwing out the fact that, how a vehicle puts power down is just as important as how much power it has. AWD has a major grip advantage in all situations involving power being applied. There is also a point for every vehicle where more power does not equal faster times. However this will be track and application specific. Take a look at F1. There are cars with significantly higher traps on the straights (indicating superior power to weight) that are at the back of the pack, when it comes to lap times. Yet, these cars have strict rules they they comply with, to make sure no one has an unfair advantage, but they still have a significant difference in lap times, that isn't always just attributed to the driver. It's all about the complete package, and how well the car is suited to the driver, and the track. So its not as black and white as power to weight ratio. The closer in layout (engine placement, weight balance, drive wheels, etc...) of the 2 vehicles the more emphasis one can put strictly on power to weight.

Boosted335 you 1-up yourself with every post.
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      04-25-2009, 05:21 AM   #131
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GTR threads now rank up there with M3 vs. 335i threads. Lets just move on. GTR is old news.
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      04-25-2009, 11:35 AM   #132
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The tone is becoming harsh. Please don't extravagate or this thread will get closed.


Best regards, south
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