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      05-10-2009, 04:10 AM   #265
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This is for Swamp, Garissimo, Bruce, in fact anyone with doubt as to the difference in the commitment of Suzuki in comparison to Chris (DR) or probably any other person who has done a fast lap in the GTR and called it impossible to lap that quickly.

On the section between Adenauer-forst and Metzgesfeld you can quite clearly hear Chris lift the throttle on almost this entire down hill section on approaching Metzgesfeld, check out and listen to Suzuki throught the same section, did he lift?, did he heck. This is one small section but it's a perfect example of why Suzuki was carrying so much more speed just about every where compared to Chris's efforts. Another example of this extra effort and commitment is the steering input, where as Chris was ultra smooth, never looking to get out of control once in comparison you can clearly see Suzuki constantly re-correcting the steering, a perfect example of a chassis that is right on the knife edge of grip (remember, Suzuki is on the ultra sticky Dunlops and not the Bridgestone that Chris was on).

It's only when you sit down and examine the lap in finer detail do you come away from it with a level of wonderment as to the skill involved from Suzuki and imagine how in the hell he was able to keep this up lap after lap.

My hat off to the guy, he is incredible.
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      05-15-2009, 02:06 AM   #266
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It goes 7min26.7secs in base form with optional Dunlop tyres...
http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090514....at-nurburgring

Using same start and finish markers as Sport Auto too

Any bets to see if a new spec 997 turbo can match this time?
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      05-15-2009, 05:33 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by Doc View Post
It goes 7min26.7secs in base form with optional Dunlop tyres...
http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090514....at-nurburgring

Using same start and finish markers as Sport Auto too

Any bets to see if a new spec 997 turbo can match this time?
endgame?
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      05-15-2009, 11:41 AM   #268
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endgame?
more like game over
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      05-20-2009, 07:29 AM   #269
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For those still interested in the GTR's 7:27 lap time, here is the actual spec of that car and what was different from the one you buy in the UK showroom.

Rubber : V-Spec which is optional

Rims : V-Spec which again is optional

Suspension : geometry adjusted for trackday use but again it's outlined in the owner's manual and your local GTR dealer will happily adjust your car to the same.

After that it's completely stock with no more power, no less weight and one really accomplished driver.

Another interesting thing that has just surfaced is the NISMO (Nissan's tuning division) have announced a new high-performance "Sports Resetting" program for the Nissan GT-R and GT-R Spec-V. It's currently available in Japan but will probably be rolled out else where too, the Sports Resetting program replaces the factory engine control module and transmission control module with specially designed units which increase torque and improve shifting response. Although NISMO haven't provide any performance data to backup their claims of improvement, they did state that the Sports Resetting package "will enable sporty and safe stress-free driving at any racetrack or enclosed space."

The fact that it's a rental program means full guarantee from NISMO and though it's two year rental agreement costing ¥294,000 ($3,065 USD / €2,248) you can continue the agreement with a subsequent yearly rental fee of ¥31,500 ($328 USD / €241). When and if you chose to end the rental program, NISMO reinstall the original ECM and TCM modules.

Last edited by footie; 05-20-2009 at 07:46 AM.
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      05-20-2009, 01:49 PM   #270
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Quote:
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For those still interested in the GTR's 7:27 lap time, here is the actual spec of that car and what was different from the one you buy in the UK showroom.

Rubber : V-Spec which is optional

Rims : V-Spec which again is optional
Clarifications. "Optional" means only available in Japan as part of a $25,000 Nismo Clubsport package. Tires can NOT be ordered directly from Bridgestone as they were developed specifically for Nissan's VSpec GT-R.

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Suspension : geometry adjusted for trackday use but again it's outlined in the owner's manual and your local GTR dealer will happily adjust your car to the same.
Does your local Nissan dealer have the same knowhow Nissan's team of ring technicians have? Or do they just adjust to a standard "track" preset? Also, will they happily honor your warranty if something should break and they find out you've had your car on a track, dyno, or airstrip?
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      05-20-2009, 03:07 PM   #271
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Clarifications. "Optional" means only available in Japan as part of a $25,000 Nismo Clubsport package. Tires can NOT be ordered directly from Bridgestone as they were developed specifically for Nissan's VSpec GT-R.
I need to find out for sure that it's the V-Spec rubber and not the Dunlops, originally I heard it was the Dunlops being used but CAR is saying the Bridgestones and yes you can order the Bridgestone V-Spec rubber through the Nissan dealer though at the moment you are right that it's a Japanese only option.

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Originally Posted by Garissimo View Post
Does your local Nissan dealer have the same knowhow Nissan's team of ring technicians have? Or do they just adjust to a standard "track" preset? Also, will they happily honor your warranty if something should break and they find out you've had your car on a track, dyno, or airstrip?
This was something I always hinted might explain it's incredible time instead of everyone believing huge power differences between the Nissan car and stock ones, but a geometry tweak isn't that dramatic and something that most seasoned trackday goers will be use to doing to their cars so I forgive Nissan this small change to standard spec.

As for the technical knowhow involved, the equipment to make the appropriate adjustment should and will be sitting in the GTR dealers garage, the rest is following instructions and yes it's the standard suspension with revised geometry only.

The final part of your comments is simply grasping at straws.
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      05-20-2009, 03:36 PM   #272
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I need to find out for sure that it's the V-Spec rubber and not the Dunlops, originally I heard it was the Dunlops being used but CAR is saying the Bridgestones and yes you can order the Bridgestone V-Spec rubber through the Nissan dealer though at the moment you are right that it's a Japanese only option.
I also heard it was Bridgestones. This is where I'm getting my info:

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index....=0#entry402886

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post

This was something I always hinted might explain it's incredible time instead of everyone believing huge power differences between the Nissan car and stock ones, but a geometry tweak isn't that dramatic and something that most seasoned trackday goers will be use to doing to their cars so I forgive Nissan this small change to standard spec.
Just how many asterisks need to accompany Nissan's claimed 7:2x ring time? First of all, it was achieved using a wheel/tire combination not currently available anywhere in the world but Japan and only authorized to be installed at a handful of garages in Japan. Who knows just how soft those specially developed VSpec Bridgestones are? As for the suspension tweaks, okay, so let's say you are lucky enough to have a nearby Nissan dealer competent enough to make the adjustments. Do you then adjust the car back to stock every time you're done racing? How long do your tires last if you leave the "racetrack" suspension settings in place? I can assure you, a buyer of a GT3 or GT2 needn't jump through the hoops one has to with a GT-R to have a hope of matching the manufacturer's claimed times.


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As for the technical knowhow involved, the equipment to make the appropriate adjustment should and will be sitting in the GTR dealers garage, the rest is following instructions and yes it's the standard suspension with revised geometry only.

The final part of your comments is simply grasping at straws.
If one closely reads the exception clauses in Nissan's latest warranty statement, it's not that much of a grasp. I think it's a legitimate question. If one were to take their UK purchased GT-R to the ring and attempt to replicate Nissan's times, would one's warranty be covered should something break?
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      05-20-2009, 03:37 PM   #273
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nissan is a joke...

everyone go check out the new warranty regulations...lol

track record times?

they should set there new paths on how fast they can get to vons and back home for groceries...

after all thats all you can do with this car now.
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      05-20-2009, 04:04 PM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garissimo View Post
I also heard it was Bridgestones. This is where I'm getting my info:

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index....=0#entry402886



Just how many asterisks need to accompany Nissan's claimed 7:2x ring time? First of all, it was achieved using a wheel/tire combination not currently available anywhere in the world but Japan and only authorized to be installed at a handful of garages in Japan. Who knows just how soft those specially developed VSpec Bridgestones are? As for the suspension tweaks, okay, so let's say you are lucky enough to have a nearby Nissan dealer competent enough to make the adjustments. Do you then adjust the car back to stock every time you're done racing? How long do your tires last if you leave the "racetrack" suspension settings in place? I can assure you, a buyer of a GT3 or GT2 needn't jump through the hoops one has to with a GT-R to have a hope of matching the manufacturer's claimed times.
The info I have is that the Bridgestones are no softer than the normal Bridgestones on the regular GTR only they have a unique tread pattern.

I do agree that an agressive racetrack suspension setup would eat tyres more but it all depends on whether you call that as cheating. I'm just happy in the knowledge that my guess on the suspension geometry being tweaked was indeed correct.

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Originally Posted by Garissimo View Post
If one closely reads the exception clauses in Nissan's latest warranty statement, it's not that much of a grasp. I think it's a legitimate question. If one were to take their UK purchased GT-R to the ring and attempt to replicate Nissan's times, would one's warranty be covered should something break?
I can't argue with your debate here but the same could be said for many manufacturers, I haven't had the misfortune to have a problem on a track with a Porsche to have the need to make that call to the dealer but I doubt they would be at much more willing to cover costs.

P.S.

CAR magazine did hand a GT3 and GTR to a ring master by the name of Andy Gulden. Having only do one lap and never driven a GTR before plus the fact that it was rhd and not his familiar side to sit he achieved a 7:51, now this was a full lap with the extra 200m of pit lane. Is that time that poor considering the lack of knowledge of the car and driving on the wrong side plus getting only one hot lap.

BTW on the familiar GT3(lhd) he did a 7:49.

Is it that much of a stretch to expect the same driver given a few hundred laps (probably the amount he had done in a Porsche) and in a lhd GTR that his time would drop by a minimum of 10+ seconds, or to put it another way, 8+ seconds quicker than a GT3 which is believed to lap the ring in 7:38.

P.S.

Dirk Schoysman (another ring master) drove a V-spec GTR on one hot lap and posted a time of 7:44 without hitting the power button. Afterward he said he was only 95% committed so how much of a drop would pushing a full 100% and using the button do to the lap time?

Dare I say a possible 7:20.
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      05-20-2009, 04:13 PM   #275
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Where are all of the ACTIVE GT-R forums anyway? I've Googled a few and they seem to have few members/posts.
I suggest NAGTROC, a very active community.

-Hunter
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      05-20-2009, 05:39 PM   #276
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Quote:
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The info I have is that the Bridgestones are no softer than the normal Bridgestones on the regular GTR only they have a unique tread pattern.
Yes, I read the same thing. But if you look at the tread pattern between the two tires, they look damn near identical. It just seems....odd, I guess that Bridgestone would go to the effort of making a special tire for the VSpec car - a race focused car - with almost the same tread pattern but no softer.

[EDIT: ADD] I'm even more suspicious after reading this quote from "Car" magazine's test drive of a GT-R VSpec:

"The new Bridgestone tyres take the levels of grip even higher"

Link

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I do agree that an agressive racetrack suspension setup would eat tyres more but it all depends on whether you call that as cheating. I'm just happy in the knowledge that my guess on the suspension geometry being tweaked was indeed correct.





I can't argue with your debate here but the same could be said for many manufacturers, I haven't had the misfortune to have a problem on a track with a Porsche to have the need to make that call to the dealer but I doubt they would be at much more willing to cover costs.

P.S.

CAR magazine did hand a GT3 and GTR to a ring master by the name of Andy Gulden. Having only do one lap and never driven a GTR before plus the fact that it was rhd and not his familiar side to sit he achieved a 7:51, now this was a full lap with the extra 200m of pit lane. Is that time that poor considering the lack of knowledge of the car and driving on the wrong side plus getting only one hot lap.

BTW on the familiar GT3(lhd) he did a 7:49.

Is it that much of a stretch to expect the same driver given a few hundred laps (probably the amount he had done in a Porsche) and in a lhd GTR that his time would drop by a minimum of 10+ seconds, or to put it another way, 8+ seconds quicker than a GT3 which is believed to lap the ring in 7:38.

P.S.

Dirk Schoysman (another ring master) drove a V-spec GTR on one hot lap and posted a time of 7:44 without hitting the power button. Afterward he said he was only 95% committed so how much of a drop would pushing a full 100% and using the button do to the lap time?

Dare I say a possible 7:20.
Okay, lots of stuff there. If you're referring to the new CAR that just came out today, it does feature yet another Porsche vs. Nissan GT-R ring battle. I would love to see a scan of that article. If you're saying that in this brand new test they could only wring a 7:51 out of the GT-R, we have yet another data point to back up Porsche's claims about the true potential of a factory stock GT-R. And it's yet another independent test where a GT3 or GT2 is faster on the same day, with the same driver, around the ring.

I honestly don't know what the VSpec tire and wheel combo along with (potentially radical) suspension adjustments can shave off the GT-R's time but it's becoming pretty obvious where real world examples of GT-Rs with the only wheels and tires available to most buyers sit in the pecking order.
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      05-20-2009, 06:23 PM   #277
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Good follow up discussion guys.

Exception after exception, not much a surprise to me. Also not much of a surprise that those generally uncritical to Nissan believe all of the exceptions are "A-OK" and those more critical and questioning find a basic problem with the way the car was spec-ed. It is not like the M3 time with MPSC+ tires which you can both buy anywhere and can even buy on the car in the EU.

I think it is perfectly fair to say that a purely showroom stock GT-R from either the US or EU is simply not going to break 7:30 regardless of driver. In this regard I simply see it as more evidence of either cheating or absolutely maximal bending of the rules based on the Nissan claim of "showroom stock". I for one do not call non factory suspension tweaks "showroom stock", again I call it dishonesty.

There really are no absolutely fair nor totally comparable Ring times without some standardization. Data points like all of those from Nissan are quite obviously achieved in a very different fashion than the rest of the numbers.
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      05-20-2009, 06:39 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garissimo View Post
If you're saying that in this brand new test they could only wring a 7:51 out of the GT-R, we have yet another data point to back up Porsche's claims about the true potential of a factory stock GT-R. And it's yet another independent test where a GT3 or GT2 is faster on the same day, with the same driver, around the ring.
Now you're just picking out what you want and you know that's not what he said at all. The point was that the guy was able to get a 7:51 in 1 lap with a completely unfamiliar car driving on the wrong side.
That's proof that the car is well able to do much much better with a driver that's experienced.
Do you think Porsche do their hot laps with inexperienced pilots??
On the tyres. Porsche call the GT3 tyre "Road Legal Sports Tyres". I'm not sure what exactly that means but you can be sure it means soft compound, short life tyres. So no difference there then.
On the warranty end of things there is not a single manufacturer that will honour your warranty if you blow a gearbox doing a track day or drag racing your car. Having said that Nissan are taking the cop out to new levels of dickheadness (it's a new word. look it up).
I still say also that there is not a single manufacturer that will go to their stock of cars from the production line and pull a random car off to do their proving on the Ring. They take a car and prep it to within an inch of it's life so it will give them the best possible time. Then they take the best driver with the most experience of that car on the Ring and he does the time.
Put the GT-R driver guy into a GT3 and he won't match Porsches test driver's times. They need to get over it. Nissan made a car that is faster round the ring then the GT3. The next GT3 will be faster than it and the game will go on and on and on but they and everyone else needs to accept that it is possible for someone, even someone as unexpected as Nissan, to create a car that can lap the Ring faster. End of.
I don't have either car so I don't care. Genuinely. I couldn't care less but I don't believe Nissan are lying any more than any other manufacturer. Not one little bit.

When I win the lottory tonight I'm buying a Pagani Zonda F in bare carbon fibre and I'm going to lap the Ring in 25mins.
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      05-20-2009, 08:18 PM   #279
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Now you're just picking out what you want and you know that's not what he said at all. The point was that the guy was able to get a 7:51 in 1 lap with a completely unfamiliar car driving on the wrong side.
Every time the GT-R fails to live up to the hype we get a new laundry list of excuses. This was not some rookie, wet-behind-the-ears driver "Car" used. For some background on who the driver was and how he how he was chosen, click here:

Andy Gülden Bio


Now, I don't have the article itself to look at so I am just going by the ring times quoted by footie. Was the GT3 2 seconds faster? Was the GT3 also given 1 lap to run its 7:49 time, or was it given more laps? Was the driver given more time to familiarize himself with the GT3 than the GT-R?

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That's proof that the car is well able to do much much better with a driver that's experienced.
We know it'll do much better with a $25,000 wheel & tire combination available ONLY in Japan and with special suspension tweaks. I'm of the strong opinion the test drivers used for the laps "Car", "Driver's Republic", "Sport Auto" and Porsche ran were not the limiting factors.

Quote:
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Do you think Porsche do their hot laps with inexperienced pilots??
On the tyres. Porsche call the GT3 tyre "Road Legal Sports Tyres". I'm not sure what exactly that means but you can be sure it means soft compound, short life tyres. So no difference there then.
On the warranty end of things there is not a single manufacturer that will honour your warranty if you blow a gearbox doing a track day or drag racing your car. Having said that Nissan are taking the cop out to new levels of dickheadness (it's a new word. look it up).
I still say also that there is not a single manufacturer that will go to their stock of cars from the production line and pull a random car off to do their proving on the Ring. They take a car and prep it to within an inch of it's life so it will give them the best possible time. Then they take the best driver with the most experience of that car on the Ring and he does the time.
Put the GT-R driver guy into a GT3 and he won't match Porsches test driver's times. They need to get over it. Nissan made a car that is faster round the ring then the GT3.
How do you conclude this? If the initial times quoted by footie are correct, it would appear that the 997.2 GT3 has the measure of the GT-R around the ring.
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      05-20-2009, 09:41 PM   #280
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Every time the GT-R fails to live up to the hype we get a new laundry list of excuses. This was not some rookie, wet-behind-the-ears driver "Car" used. For some background on who the driver was and how he how he was chosen, click here:

Now, I don't have the article itself to look at so I am just going by the ring times quoted by footie. Was the GT3 2 seconds faster? Was the GT3 also given 1 lap to run its 7:49 time, or was it given more laps? Was the driver given more time to familiarize himself with the GT3 than the GT-R?

We know it'll do much better with a $25,000 wheel & tire combination available ONLY in Japan and with special suspension tweaks. I'm of the strong opinion the test drivers used for the laps "Car", "Driver's Republic", "Sport Auto" and Porsche ran were not the limiting factors.

How do you conclude this? If the initial times quoted by footie are correct, it would appear that the 997.2 GT3 has the measure of the GT-R around the ring.

No but he was completely new to the car and that makes a world of difference. There is no substitute for experience and practise in any car and he was a veteran on the GT3. So Yes is the answer to the familiarisation with the GT3. Way more laps.

The wheel & tyre combo hasn't been confirmed. It's just suspected by people looking at the pictures. Suspension adjustments on a car with adjustable suspension simply shows what's possible with some time adjusting for track and can hardly be called cheating.

The faster time is the time that you all seem to believe are lies by Nissan but of course Porsche is telling the truth with their times and not altering their car in any way for the timing run. I wasn't talking about the porsche driver attempting to better his time with 1 lap experience.

What I can't understand is why so many people here have a problem with the thought that it might be possible for Nissan to make a car that can lap the Ring faster than some other car? Did you get bitten by a Nissan as a baby???

I don't have either car so I'm prepared to believe that Nissan are at least as honest as Porsche with their information and testing standards.

The scope of the warranty exclusions is ridiculous on the GT-R but the part about voiding if you damage it on a track day is perfectly normal and exactly the same as you would get from Porsche and BMW. In fact, I think it's perfectly understandable. The fact that a car can be driven round a track at record speeds doesn't mean it's built to do it for anything other than to demonstrate it's abilities and limits. No road car with a 3-5 year warranty is built to do track days. Not a single one. They're just too hard on components no matter what the car is. You might be lucky and get away with a shit load of them but one day something will give.

You don't see touring cars doing a season without engine/gearbox rebuilds and they only put out less bhp than some modern supersaloons. Mind you. The factory give them the parts so they don't have to worry about warranty
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      05-21-2009, 01:54 AM   #281
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The scope of the warranty exclusions is ridiculous on the GT-R but the part about voiding if you damage it on a track day is perfectly normal and exactly the same as you would get from Porsche and BMW. In fact, I think it's perfectly understandable. The fact that a car can be driven round a track at record speeds doesn't mean it's built to do it for anything other than to demonstrate it's abilities and limits. No road car with a 3-5 year warranty is built to do track days. Not a single one. They're just too hard on components no matter what the car is. You might be lucky and get away with a shit load of them but one day something will give.
Absolute drivel and false.

Porsches and BMW are both built for some pretty hard track use and abuse. Obviously with Porsche generally speaking exceeding BMW in this particular area. As well both companies will cover you under warranty when using the car on the track. Hell the M3 manual even tells you how to prepare for track driving and as long as it is not competitive you are covered. I can post the quote from the manual if you care to see it. BMW will even cover pads and rotors based on track use. However, most realize it is not a legitimate thing to request of BMW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoreHead View Post
Suspension adjustments on a car with adjustable suspension simply shows what's possible with some time adjusting for track and can hardly be called cheating.
It is cheating if all cars are delivered with the same factory adjustments/settings to the suspension and then the car is adjusted differently and the car is claimed to be "showroom stock".

I disagree with other points you've made as well in your last couple of posts but the first above was the real glaring error and you basically stated it twice.
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      05-21-2009, 02:05 AM   #282
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I haven't the article in front of me at the moment but I don't think it said the amount of laps the GT3 did, though it did stress the fact that Andy had never driven a GTR and he was less familiar with driving on the right side, plus he only did one flying lap.

I know from my days in karting that during testing it took me at least 3~4 laps to get into the zone and that was in something I was very familiar with. I'm not says my time dropped by seconds but then again most laps were only a minute long.

If you don't see someone total lack of experience with the GTR as proof positive that he could easily had knocked a great chunk of time off his lap which I might add included the pit lane which adds approximately 4 seconds per lap minimum then I am lose for words.

Edit (Added)

The 7:29 time was achieved on stock rimes and tyres, can't tell whether the suspension was adjusted but chances are it was, so at best those extremely expense rimes and tyres accounted for 2 seconds over the stock Dunlops. LOL

Last edited by footie; 05-21-2009 at 02:53 AM.
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      05-21-2009, 02:13 AM   #283
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Some of you guys are real comedians. The whole argument was that Nissan was doing this with a car that was extremely more powerful than what you get from a showroom car. This simply was not the case. Now I'm hearing the excuses, well you can't get that in America, tires, warranty, etc.... No one is saying that you can go to your local dealership and immediately run this in a GTR. We're just saying that with no power modifications, just your basic track prep items (which are factory available) installed, the car is capable of these times, in the hands of an extremely talented driver. It's becoming painfully obvious, that this was done with basically a factory vehicle with factory options. Even if it is JDM wheels/tires....whatever.

In conclusion, Nissan put a monumental factory effort in getting the GTR to rival the best from Porsche and many other sports cars that cost a lot more around the ring.

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      05-21-2009, 08:29 AM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Absolute drivel and false.

Porsches and BMW are both built for some pretty hard track use and abuse. Obviously with Porsche generally speaking exceeding BMW in this particular area. As well both companies will cover you under warranty when using the car on the track. Hell the M3 manual even tells you how to prepare for track driving and as long as it is not competitive you are covered. I can post the quote from the manual if you care to see it. BMW will even cover pads and rotors based on track use. However, most realize it is not a legitimate thing to request of BMW.



It is cheating if all cars are delivered with the same factory adjustments/settings to the suspension and then the car is adjusted differently and the car is claimed to be "showroom stock".

I disagree with other points you've made as well in your last couple of posts but the first above was the real glaring error and you basically stated it twice.
Drivel now? I love this forum. It's full of the most obnoxious people I've come across in all my years online. I've yet to find so many people that are incapable of disagreeing without some form of abuse thrown in. Proves what I've said for years about M3 drivers and BMW drivers in general though so no surprises there. Did I say "They won't cover your warranty you idiot"??? No. I just stated what I wanted to and that was it. Like a civilised human being. I guess I was stupid to expect the same back.

When I talk about a track day I mean a real one where you go an drive like it is a race. Otherwise it's just a Sunday drive with no speed limits. Go check out a few magazine and internet track tests of the M3. Once the track has a few corners the brakes fall off after only 2 or 3 laps. Not exactly track designed there now is it? Also, if you think our standard M3's are designed to take full track abuse then all the best with that. I hope you don't find out the hard way that they aren't. A GT3 will be much better able to cope with demands of a track day but it's still a road car in highly tuned form so it's already under stress. If I spent the money on one I'd definitely do a track day or two (you'd have to really) but that would be it.

As for warranty. I don't believe for one second that if you blow your gearbox and head back to BMW and tell them you were driving the nuts off it on your 10th track day that they won't laugh you out of the showroom. I will believe it if I see proof. Of course even if I get proof I could still go the route of this thread and say the proof is false and even though I see it I don't believe it.

It is not cheating if the alterations that were made can be made by any owner on any showroom car. You said yourself that BMW tell you how to set the car up for track. Do you not think they did that for their ring timing run??

I'm not familiar with the new GT3 but I would put money on it that if the suspension is adjustable that they adjusted it to suit the track before they did their timing run.
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      05-21-2009, 11:32 AM   #285
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Quote:
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Drivel now? I love this forum. It's full of the most obnoxious people I've come across in all my years online. I've yet to find so many people that are incapable of disagreeing without some form of abuse thrown in. Proves what I've said for years about M3 drivers and BMW drivers in general though so no surprises there. Did I say "They won't cover your warranty you idiot"??? No. I just stated what I wanted to and that was it. Like a civilised human being. I guess I was stupid to expect the same back.

When I talk about a track day I mean a real one where you go an drive like it is a race. Otherwise it's just a Sunday drive with no speed limits. Go check out a few magazine and internet track tests of the M3. Once the track has a few corners the brakes fall off after only 2 or 3 laps. Not exactly track designed there now is it? Also, if you think our standard M3's are designed to take full track abuse then all the best with that. I hope you don't find out the hard way that they aren't. A GT3 will be much better able to cope with demands of a track day but it's still a road car in highly tuned form so it's already under stress. If I spent the money on one I'd definitely do a track day or two (you'd have to really) but that would be it.

As for warranty. I don't believe for one second that if you blow your gearbox and head back to BMW and tell them you were driving the nuts off it on your 10th track day that they won't laugh you out of the showroom. I will believe it if I see proof. Of course even if I get proof I could still go the route of this thread and say the proof is false and even though I see it I don't believe it.

It is not cheating if the alterations that were made can be made by any owner on any showroom car. You said yourself that BMW tell you how to set the car up for track. Do you not think they did that for their ring timing run??

I'm not familiar with the new GT3 but I would put money on it that if the suspension is adjustable that they adjusted it to suit the track before they did their timing run.
you cant adjust the suspension on the gt3 its the gt3 rs you can.
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      05-21-2009, 12:19 PM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoreHead View Post
Drivel now? I love this forum. It's full of the most obnoxious people I've come across in all my years online. I've yet to find so many people that are incapable of disagreeing without some form of abuse thrown in. Proves what I've said for years about M3 drivers and BMW drivers in general though so no surprises there. Did I say "They won't cover your warranty you idiot"??? No. I just stated what I wanted to and that was it. Like a civilised human being. I guess I was stupid to expect the same back.

When I talk about a track day I mean a real one where you go an drive like it is a race. Otherwise it's just a Sunday drive with no speed limits. Go check out a few magazine and internet track tests of the M3. Once the track has a few corners the brakes fall off after only 2 or 3 laps. Not exactly track designed there now is it? Also, if you think our standard M3's are designed to take full track abuse then all the best with that. I hope you don't find out the hard way that they aren't. A GT3 will be much better able to cope with demands of a track day but it's still a road car in highly tuned form so it's already under stress. If I spent the money on one I'd definitely do a track day or two (you'd have to really) but that would be it.

As for warranty. I don't believe for one second that if you blow your gearbox and head back to BMW and tell them you were driving the nuts off it on your 10th track day that they won't laugh you out of the showroom. I will believe it if I see proof. Of course even if I get proof I could still go the route of this thread and say the proof is false and even though I see it I don't believe it.

It is not cheating if the alterations that were made can be made by any owner on any showroom car. You said yourself that BMW tell you how to set the car up for track. Do you not think they did that for their ring timing run??

I'm not familiar with the new GT3 but I would put money on it that if the suspension is adjustable that they adjusted it to suit the track before they did their timing run.
God damn son, you need to chill out. This is some Christian Bale sh*t.
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