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      04-13-2009, 06:33 PM   #1
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24-70mm or 24-105mm & 85mm

I'm thinking about buying a walk-around lens that's good enough to shoot in low light conditions (events, concerts, etc.). I've used the 24-70mm 2.8L before and liked it but would like a little more reach when I'm walking around in well lit areas. I understand that the difference between 70 and 105 is about 2 steps so that's not a HUGE deal really.

Anyhow, I was thinking that I should get the 24-105mm 4L for every day kind of things and the 85mm 1.8 for shooting events. Either that or just get the 24-70mm and be done with it. What's your opinion?

Note: the price of a 24-70mm is about that of both the 24-105mm and 85mm combined (depending on where you buy).
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      04-13-2009, 06:59 PM   #2
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ive used the 24-70 as a walkaround and have nothing but good things to say. In low light its excellent, but it is a bit heavy (you know that)

the 24-105 is pretty good, but not nearly as good in low light...so while you do give up 35mm on the far end, you get some fantastic low light performance and dof
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      04-13-2009, 07:12 PM   #3
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^ yeah for sure- the 24-70mm isn't called "the brick" for nothing. I actually don't mind it at all though.

I should add that I rarely shoot events (occasionally for fun) but would like an option that is capable of shooting in low light conditions. Thus I guess it boils down to a lens that can do everything (24-70mm) but lacks that little reach (which isn't a big deal) or 1 lens that has a little more reach (24-105) but requires a faster lens (85mm) to compliment it
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      04-14-2009, 09:30 AM   #4
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24-70mm 2.8L... one of the best all purpose lens available.

but I'm biased.
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      04-15-2009, 11:03 PM   #5
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sorry if I'm an idiot but what is it exactly that are you shooting (I know you said events/concerts but do you plan on shooting a lot of concerts or just when you randomly go?) and which camera body do you have?

Only reason I ask is it would make a lot more sense to get the 2.8 if you go to a lot of shows.
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      04-15-2009, 11:32 PM   #6
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^ I don't shoot events/concerts often. I seldomly go- basically whenever my uncle calls me and I just go for fun. So I'm basically looking for a good walk-around lens. I'm leaning toward the 24-70mm because I've used it before. While the 24-105mm is good, it might be too slow for low light conditions and that would mean swapping lenses.

I have a rebel XSi.
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      04-16-2009, 12:22 AM   #7
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ok cuz my concern looking for a good all around lens (and Alex can attest to this cuz we talked about it like 30 times) was the crop factor on the 24-70mm. I personally prefer a wider angle lens to a more telephoto one. With the 24mm and a 1.6x crop factor, you won't be able to shoot anything under 38mm. Because of that I opted for the 16-35mm 2.8L (which ended up giving me a 25-56mm after the crop factor).

Now if you specifically NEED something that will zoom a little higher, understood that you'd probably want the 24-70mm but I personally feel like I'd be missing out on a lot of shots cuz I'd be too close, rather than too far away. Plus if you have a 50mm 1.8 (which I hope you do cuz they are like $75) you can always slap that on for shots that are a little further away.

Another one you could consider is the 17-40 f4 L... not as good in low light but still great sharp L glass and its about 1/2 the price of the rest ($650-700 for a gently used one).
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      04-16-2009, 12:55 AM   #8
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I have the 18-55 IS kit lens right now so that could cover some of the wide angle shots. I know it's not L lens or one of great optics but it's good enough for decent walk-around shots. I've used the 10-22mm lens before and have never really had the need for it. I tried to figure out how I can use it more but couldn't find anything. So I don't really need much at the wide angle end.

I know you guys are probably wondering why the upgrade to the 24-70mm if I'm okay with the kit lens. Well it's because the answer is that the kit lens is just a kit lens. I'm ready for a little more reach (hence I'm considering the 24-105) and better optics. I also would like a faster lens (hence the 2.8) to take pictures in low light conditions.

My plan is to have either a 10-22 (this is a maybe just to complete the kit as I probably won't use it that much), 24-70mm, and 70-200 2.8 IS. I will add some primes if for some reason I end up needing them. I was gonna get the 50mm 1.8 a while back but never got around to it. But if I get a 50mm I will save up for the 1.4 version. Of course as you guys know, all that will cost $4-5k so it's gonna be a while before I can complete the kit. For now, I want something that will allow me to shoot in low light as well as make an excellent walk around lens (or lenses).

PS- I will most likely upgrade to a full-frame camera sometime in the future so EF lenses would be great.
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      04-16-2009, 01:11 AM   #9
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I can say that currently I have the 24-70 F 2.8 L and the 70-200 F 2.8 IS L, and they are more than wide enough for me (but I have a FF body)...the range I get is fantastic, but that 70-200 lense is pricey as helllllllll...but its 3 lenses in one...

you can get a 1.4x extender to make the 70-200 an f4 with IS and a great long range, or you can get the macro extension tube to make the 70-200 one of the only IS L lenses that is also a macro lens...

its a pretty sweet combo covering a very large range
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      04-16-2009, 01:20 AM   #10
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^ Yeah I will definitely get the 1.4x extender for the 70-200. I would love to have a 70-200 2.8 IS right now but like you said it's a boatload of money (that I don't have). lol

I'll probably end up getting a 5D Mark II sometime in the future. Again, all of those stuff cost a lot of money so it's not going to be any time soon. I've been asking around to see if anyone works for Canon but came up empty handed.
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      04-16-2009, 02:20 AM   #11
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great information! i have an XSi as well and im a complete n00b. reading up online in combination with the information i get here is awesome i didnt even know my sensor had a 1.6 crop factor. in fact, i didnt even know sensors were different until just now
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      04-16-2009, 10:17 AM   #12
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nice info.

so, general concensus is that 24-70, f2.8 is a pretty good all-purpose lens?

I'm looking for a lens that would capture better image at night or inside, with low light situation. Will take occational events (party, wedding)...

still thinking if it is worth the $1500 for that lens...
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      04-16-2009, 12:08 PM   #13
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http://www.the-digital-picture.com/C...pose-Lens.aspx

Best place to go for sample pictures and lens reviews.
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      04-16-2009, 01:58 PM   #14
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I was going to say get the f2.8 for the uses that you specify with the Rebel; however, now that you say that you'll be moving to a 5D MkII, then I'm torn. I've got the 5D MkII and love it with the f4L 24-105 IS and find it superb, thanks to the incredible high ISO performance of the camera.

Using the 24-105 f4 on a full frame body, like the 5D MkII gives you true wide angle out to a short tele. On the Rebel, the 70 mm will be roughly equivalent to the 105 on a full frame, but the 24 mm will be only a marginal wide angle lens. (The other lens that you already have makes up for that).

Of course you know that the 24-105 f4L IS is the "kit" lens for the 5D Mk II. If you're going to buy the 5D, then you might want to wait to buy it as a package and look to another lens, like the stellar 70-200 f4L IS. That'll give you a true tele for your Rebel and it's a very useful lens for concerts and such, particularly with a high ISO camera.

So, the question may be, how long do you plan to stay with the Rebel. If it's under a year, then I say that you'll be happy without the large 2.8 aperture once you get the full frame camera. If you're going to take advantage of the "kit" status of the 24-105 when you buy your new camera, then consider another lens for now, that'll work with the Rebel and the full frame, high ISO body. (The kit discount is a few hundred bucks).

You'll be amazed at the high ISO performance of the 5D MkII. You will only need

Dave
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      04-16-2009, 02:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstep View Post
I was going to say get the f2.8 for the uses that you specify with the Rebel; however, now that you say that you'll be moving to a 5D MkII, then I'm torn. I've got the 5D MkII and love it with the f4L 24-105 IS and find it superb, thanks to the incredible high ISO performance of the camera.

Using the 24-105 f4 on a full frame body, like the 5D MkII gives you true wide angle out to a short tele. On the Rebel, the 70 mm will be roughly equivalent to the 105 on a full frame, but the 24 mm will be only a marginal wide angle lens. (The other lens that you already have makes up for that).

Of course you know that the 24-105 f4L IS is the "kit" lens for the 5D Mk II. If you're going to buy the 5D, then you might want to wait to buy it as a package and look to another lens, like the stellar 70-200 f4L IS. That'll give you a true tele for your Rebel and it's a very useful lens for concerts and such, particularly with a high ISO camera.

So, the question may be, how long do you plan to stay with the Rebel. If it's under a year, then I say that you'll be happy without the large 2.8 aperture once you get the full frame camera. If you're going to take advantage of the "kit" status of the 24-105 when you buy your new camera, then consider another lens for now, that'll work with the Rebel and the full frame, high ISO body. (The kit discount is a few hundred bucks).

You'll be amazed at the high ISO performance of the 5D MkII. You will only need

Dave
Found this site on sensor performance, pretty interesting how each camera performs in low light. Give it a look over...

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/DxOMark-Sensor
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      04-16-2009, 03:20 PM   #16
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Found this site on sensor performance, pretty interesting how each camera performs in low light. Give it a look over...

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/DxOMark-Sensor
Yes, that's good stuff. I like either the 700D or 5D for the best compromise, for me, in body size and sensor performance. (They're both still large cameras, BTW).

BTW2, DxO makes incredible software called Optics Pro that makes body and lens-specific corrections for flaws at specific apertures and focal lengths. It's amazing, bringing the performance of my 24-105 f4L IS up to the level of a great prime lens. I prefer DxO's software to Canon's RAW conversion and it even has noise reduction prior to conversion, to further enhance the 5D MkII's stellar high ISO performance. I then move into PS CS4 for more advanced processing, which is often not needed.

Over the decades I've worked with fast films, fast lenses, medium format, etc., but these new full frame DSLRs truly amaze me with their combination of the advantages of large format, fast speed and incredible post processing abilities. Man, compared to the old days, photography has gotten amazingly flexible.

Dave
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      04-16-2009, 06:27 PM   #17
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Dave,

Thank you for bring up all those great points! After taking them into consideration I think I will stick with the 24-70mm for now as I probably won't be upgrading any time soon. If I had to guess I would say maybe 2-3 years before upgrading as I'm only doing it for a hobby. At that time I will either buy the 5D MKII with the kit lens or simply trade the 24-70 for the 24-105. The 70-200mm will come later to complete the list.

Cheers!
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      04-16-2009, 10:15 PM   #18
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That makes sense. Two or three years is a long time.

Enjoy,

Dave
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      04-17-2009, 12:50 AM   #19
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trade the 24-70 for a 24-105!?! madness
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      04-17-2009, 02:59 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNF View Post
nice info.

so, general concensus is that 24-70, f2.8 is a pretty good all-purpose lens?

I'm looking for a lens that would capture better image at night or inside, with low light situation. Will take occational events (party, wedding)...

still thinking if it is worth the $1500 for that lens...
Based on what I've seen and heard you can't go wrong with either the 24-70 or 24-105. However, since you will sometimes shoot in low light conditions the 24-70mm is better suited. So IMO it's a pretty good walk-around lens, not all-purpose lens as you can't really shoot birds or sports with it (too short). Of course if you have a full frame camera then you could just bump up the ISO and be fine with the 24-105 4.0L like Dave's mentioned.

The 24-70mm is going for about $1190 on sites like Amazon, Cameta Camera, BHphotovideo and JR.com. If you have B of A you can get 4% cash back on JR making it about $1142 shipped (no tax unless you're in NY).
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      04-17-2009, 03:00 AM   #21
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Quote:
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trade the 24-70 for a 24-105!?! madness
Haha I'm just saying that is a possibility. I probably won't but who knows, I might end up needing that extra reach on the 105.
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      04-17-2009, 01:08 PM   #22
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I sold my 24-70L after I got the 85 1.8 and rather have the 24-105L. 24-70L was great and tack sharp but just always found it a bit lacking at the long end. Especially since the 135L make a nice extension to the set.
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