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      04-09-2009, 10:49 AM   #23
ba22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAZNG
Busy night you've had on this tread guys... The nut licking comment is funny and BA22 seems upset that he didn't say it first. LOL

"fanboi" is perfectly understandable and when describing a closeted queer as he accused you of being earlier on but that's for another time as you've denied any nut licking knowledge. Go check out www.urbandictionary.com (look up: fanboi). Your picture won't be up there, but it will describe you well enough.

Ba: unless there have been documented testing by legitimate & independent labs, no one can defunct what you "think" of which wheel is engineered better. Owning a few sets of HRE wheels does by no means make you an expert at build quality let alone a company's engineering abilities.

I will give props to HRE for their marketing though, they've been able to convince many (such as yourself) of their superiority enough to have people that are not on their payroll (I assume), to rant, rave, and defend their products well into the night with a complete stranger without any direct knowledge or facts (other than what they've read from their website & brochures).

I'm not knocking HRE in the least. They make a nice product and command respect (especially with their exuberant pricing), but are they the best or better than DPE?... probably not, but who knows - Certainly NOT you.

PS. you seem like a post count hungry infantile yourself. Don't accuse someone of acting like a 16 yo and then knock their spelling/ "English", (which you were wrong about, as well). LOL

Thanks Demon, Cab & Tlyer (your consolation prize is the mail - lol)

and a special thanks to BA for a great laugh this beautiful Thursday morning.
You are a slow one, aren't you? Try to pay attention carefully because I wouldn't be in my right mind to continue this childish back and forth with every single person, nor do I have any interest to. This is why I asked if we wanted to all continue to act like 16 years old, you apparently do. Which is fine and I'm assuming the only reason is because you got a gang of other members behind you who replied with no relevance to anything I originally said. That said, not sure what's to thank them about or WHY you are thanking them?

First of all, I do not care about the term "fanboi" and it bites me in the ass why you keep investing more time to make your point, when in actuality you are arguing something that was already incorrect from the beginning. You should have left it there. For everyone: "Fanboi" is NOT a REAL word. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fanboi That's your problem, you were looking at the wrong dictionary pal.

I don't need anyone to believe my "opinion" of which wheel is better. In fact, although this back and forth is not going to last much longer, I'll refrain from including my opinion about that in my future posts. I was out of line discrediting this new wonderful product from DPE and if I would have known I would be wasting so much time, I would have very likely never posted. I didn't realize this was a public forum where I can exercise my opinion freely, how dare me!?! Sorry it so upset you.

I realize that the one's who are educated on the subject can quickly define the differences and the better of the two. But then again, I'll refrain from going there. To get back on topic, yes I'm also contributing to steering away from my primary point, which by the way has been overlooked again because the kiddish crap "fanboi" and "nut licking" were more important topics of this dialog. But let me copy and paste it for you or you can refer back to post #17:

Quote:
But let's get it clear that I didn't say anything about anybody inventing anything. What I find interesting is that you have a dozen small brands jumping in to make a quick buck off the success of the HRE Monoblok wheels. I haven't seen so much buzz and demand for the monoblock styles since HRE introduced their line up. Also, I wouldn't compare the Neez mesh wheel with the HRE P40 wheel as they don't share similar characteristics like the new DPE wheel (that the OP posted) and the P40 clearly do! Regardless, we are speaking aesthetics only which do not matter much to me anyways. I care more about engineering, unsprung mass, etc. If DPE made a new monoblock wheel that is engineered better than the P40, which I doubt, but if they did, then I give them major props.

Please spare me the "fan boy" comments. I have many favorite wheel brands. HRE is not one of them, although I do think they build great wheels and have owned a few sets of their wheels.
Ultimately, I have nothing to prove or gain continuing this except to defend my future identity on these forums. I don't need anyone to counter argue my opinion, as ridiculous as that sounds. I welcome your response, but rest assured I'm opting out because I've already made my point and more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAZNGC
ab... You couldn't have more correct about this guy. Check out this link and see the very last sentence of the post/ article and you'll see where BA22 gets his "knowledge and expertise"
Thanks detective. This validates my above point about you. Refer back to post #19 where I when onto to briefly explain that any knowledge that I've gained was from my many years of buying aftermarket wheels. No, I haven't seen that link you posted, but the term is widely used and known (even for consumers, believe it or not!), not to mention it's basic physics.

Have a nice day.
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      04-09-2009, 01:43 PM   #24
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you expect anyone to read all of that? You're full of more than just hot air.

peace
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      04-09-2009, 02:47 PM   #25
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      04-09-2009, 11:17 PM   #26
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Look like Beyton race gt's ball- polished..
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      04-10-2009, 06:45 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by mvagusta View Post
Look like Beyton race gt's ball- polished..
errr, try again


UPDATE: INTERESTING INFO DIRECTLY FROM DPE!


Quote:
HRE and DPE source our 1pc blanks from the same supplier. And we both use our own CNC machines to mill in our own designs. Our ST7 wheel is a 3pc variation of our GT7 and our ST7 mono is just a continuation of that. We've had this design for many years now, even before HRE came out with their 1pc.
Interesting facts
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      04-11-2009, 02:46 PM   #28
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Thanks detective. This validates my above point about you. Refer back to post #19 where I when onto to briefly explain that any knowledge that I've gained was from my many years of buying aftermarket wheels. No, I haven't seen that link you posted, but the term is widely used and known (even for consumers, believe it or not!), not to mention it's basic physics.
I usually don't like to chime in on this type of thing...but how does buying lots of wheels over ten years give you "experience" when it comes to their engineering? It doesn't, at all. I could by 3 houses a year, for ten years, but I woudln't know exactly how each was built and if they were designed properly just by looking at them...I'd have to take them apart. Have you taken all your ten years of wheels apart, taken coupons of the metal and had them stress tested? Done 3-d models of all your bought wheels and put them into an FEA modeller? I don't think so. I have lots a cups, I can't tell if one mug is stronger than the other...

Then you're compaining about rotational inertia but you have absolutely no idea what the weights of the DPE are...and I bet you don't know what the weights of the HRE are. Even if you did know the weights of both weels, you definately wouldn't know the allocation of the weight with respect to it's center of mass. Theoritically, the HRE could weight 1 pound less, but have a heavier hoop, thus negating the fact that it actually weights less. You have no idea. By the way...both wheels are aparently made in the same shop, thus I would assume they are forged with the same process...leaving only design and FEA testing as differences, which nobody here can know about unless they work for both companies.

Last point, your very first post was about how it's a copy of HRE. Never thought that HRE was not the first wheel maker in the world and I can guarantee you that the P40 and P41 are most certainly not 100% original and that wheel designs like the P40 and P41 existed way before their monoblock lines where released. Therefore...that really makes HRE the copier doesn't it? Oh yeah, and see quote above I paste here for reiteration:

HRE and DPE source our 1pc blanks from the same supplier. And we both use our own CNC machines to mill in our own designs. Our ST7 wheel is a 3pc variation of our GT7 and our ST7 mono is just a continuation of that. We've had this design for many years now, even before HRE came out with their 1pc.

Sorry for the long post...had to get that one out. By the way...I acutally like HRE wheels better, but that doesn't mean they are...
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      04-11-2009, 06:50 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalare
I usually don't like to chime in on this type of thing...but how does buying lots of wheels over ten years give you "experience" when it comes to their engineering? It doesn't, at all. I could by 3 houses a year, for ten years, but I woudln't know exactly how each was built and if they were designed properly just by looking at them...I'd have to take them apart. Have you taken all your ten years of wheels apart, taken coupons of the metal and had them stress tested? Done 3-d models of all your bought wheels and put them into an FEA modeller? I don't think so. I have lots a cups, I can't tell if one mug is stronger than the other...
Seriously, this is my last one. Please carefully READ my posts before trying to call me out again. Never did I say I had "experience" in engineering. Let's get that out of the way. I said, any "knowledge" that I have gained was from my personal buying experiences. In fact, very few of these included HRE's. And yes, you will naturally learn this stuff as you buy more wheels (unless you don't care and ignore it). Every time I have purchased wheels I have more knowledge from my previous buying experience to know what to look for and avoid in terms of performance, safety, quality, etc, this helps me make an educated buying decision so I don't regret it later when the bolts on my wheels are rusty, silicone is leaking, etc.

Anyways, I then when on to say that, no, I truly don't believe that DPE engineers a better wheel than HRE. First of all, this is my opinion, not a fact. Second of all, I make this judgement partially based on what I have personally witnessed from a tour during HRE's open house last year. This has nothing to do with their marketing, it's purely a tour from their engineer of what happens behind the scenes. One thing that convinced me to buy their wheels is that they go out of their way to prove to you the big differences between them and others. In my opinion, only a company that truly does offer more would want everyone to know this.

I'm still waiting for DPE (and others within reasonable driving distance) to host an open house and personal tour from their engineers. When they do, you can count on me certainly being there. I couldn't tell you if I would have a different opinion coming out, but I can tell you that I was impressed with what I've so far seen of HRE. I hope you know that there is much more to engineering a wheel than just minimizing mass wherever you can. You need to factor in structural integrity as well (in other words... safety!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalare
Then you're compaining about rotational inertia but you have absolutely no idea what the weights of the DPE are...and I bet you don't know what the weights of the HRE are. Even if you did know the weights of both weels, you definately wouldn't know the allocation of the weight with respect to it's center of mass. Theoritically, the HRE could weight 1 pound less, but have a heavier hoop, thus negating the fact that it actually weights less. You have no idea. By the way...both wheels are aparently made in the same shop, thus I would assume they are forged with the same process...leaving only design and FEA testing as differences, which nobody here can know about unless they work for both companies.
Your points are all valid, there is no doubt about that, except that you keep claiming "I have no idea". Until we can compare weight, FEA results, etc... YOU actually have no idea. That is if DPE actually does FEA testing, which again, I doubt! I'm looking at their website, they have no reference to any kind of FEM/FEA testing, only R&D followed by CAD which is used to build their prototypes which are then tested in independent labs to exceed the standards set by DOT... DOT!

They are missing the one major step that BBS, HRE, etc takes... FEM/FEA testing. For those who don't know what that is, it's software that allows you to accurately analyze how every little point in a wheel design would react in a real life situation. DPE skips this step and tests the wheels to meet DOT standards once they have been CNC machined. My bicycle helmet is tested to meet DOT standards. You are basically proving my point and making DPE look bad at the same time.

Another thing DPE doesn't have is TUV verification. I've also learned if the company is TUV verified then you better believe they are using the highest engineering methods to build a correct and safe wheel. Important note... There is a difference between claiming that you engineer your wheels to TUV standards and actually being TUV verified.

In my opinion, it's not even fair to compare HRE to DPE. Many who are also knowledgeable on the subject will agree. Which forging supplier you use is an important step, but there is many other significant things that need to be factored in before even comparing the two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalare
Last point, your very first post was about how it's a copy of HRE. Never thought that HRE was not the first wheel maker in the world and I can guarantee you that the P40 and P41 are most certainly not 100% original and that wheel designs like the P40 and P41 existed way before their monoblock lines where released. Therefore...that really makes HRE the copier doesn't it?
Please read my posts as you misread them again. I said, quote "They are an attempt to be like HRE's Monoblok's" and then a few posts later "But let's get it clear that I didn't say anything about anybody inventing anything. What I find interesting is that you have a dozen small brands jumping in to make a quick buck off the success of the HRE Monoblok wheels. I haven't seen so much buzz and demand for the monoblock styles since HRE introduced their line up. Also, I wouldn't compare the Neez mesh wheel with the HRE P40 wheel as they don't share similar characteristics like the new DPE wheel (that the OP posted) and the P40 clearly do!" To my knowledge (and in my opinion!), this is true.

Thanks, you as well have a nice day.
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      04-11-2009, 08:53 PM   #30
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did someone say HRE?
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      04-11-2009, 09:21 PM   #31
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Seriously, this is my last one. Please carefully READ my posts before trying to call me out again. Never did I say I had "experience" in engineering.
That was my point, your "experience" means nothing if you don't know the engineering behind both wheels...or even have owned both (giving experience in fit and finish). Telling people you have experience with wheels and saying HRE are better when in fact, admitting that you own very few HRE (and I'll assume NO DPE), is IMO not something that shouldn't be done. Kind of like false advertising. That's like me walking up to a random car and telling people this car sucks...when I know nothing about it just that I heard some other brand was better so this one must suck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ba22 View Post
Anyways, I then when on to say that, no, I truly don't believe that DPE engineers a better wheel than HRE. First of all, this is my opinion, not a fact. Second of all, I make this judgement partially based on what I have personally witnessed from a tour during HRE's open house last year.
Again, you have no idea how DPE engineers their wheels, so saying they are worse than HRE has no basis, opinion or not. I don't question HRE's technology, like I said before, I like them better. I know you reiterated that I also do not have an idea on engineering, but I am not going around saying one company is better than the other. There's nowhere in my post where I claim I know what I'm talking about when it comes to wheels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ba22 View Post
I hope you know that there is much more to engineering a wheel than just minimizing mass wherever you can. You need to factor in structural integrity as well (in other words... safety!).
Yeah, I do, I'm an engineer.

About TUV and DOT. Wheels don't need to be TUV approved, and I'm sure that costs money. HRE can absorb these costs in high wheel pricing, DPE wheels cost much less and aparently they are doing well without it. They are not selling racing wheels by any means...they work for what the are, street. I'm sure if DPE thought they needed TUV approval to get more sales, they'd do so. It's a business first and foremost...probably not going to spend money on testing and approvals that they don't require for their market. I'm not saying DPE are engineered to the same standard, but I have no idea, and neither do you. So neither of us should go around spouting about how one brand is better than the other without backup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ba22 View Post
Please read my posts as you misread them again. I said, quote "They are an attempt to be like HRE's Monoblok's" and then a few posts later "But let's get it clear that I didn't say anything about anybody inventing anything. What I find interesting is that you have a dozen small brands jumping in to make a quick buck off the success of the HRE Monoblok wheels. I haven't seen so much buzz and demand for the monoblock styles since HRE introduced their line up. Also, I wouldn't compare the Neez mesh wheel with the HRE P40 wheel as they don't share similar characteristics like the new DPE wheel (that the OP posted) and the P40 clearly do!" To my knowledge (and in my opinion!), this is true.

Thanks, you as well have a nice day.
I didn't misread, I mis-interpreted your quote, as I'm sure most others did. I'll go ahead and apologize for that, but if you read it again, you'll probably see how we saw it. When you say "they are an attempt to be like HRE" it implies HRE was the original...at least IMO.


OH yeah...that picture above my post IS NOT HRE. That pics always comes up in threads like this. Look at the centercap...not HRE.

Anyways...in effort to get the thread back on track...OP get some pics of the wheels on the car ASAP!!!
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      04-12-2009, 12:22 AM   #32
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That was my point, your "experience" means nothing if you don't know the engineering behind both wheels...or even have owned both (giving experience in fit and finish). Telling people you have experience with wheels and saying HRE are better when in fact, admitting that you own very few HRE (and I'll assume NO DPE), is IMO not something that shouldn't be done. Kind of like false advertising. That's like me walking up to a random car and telling people this car sucks...when I know nothing about it just that I heard some other brand was better so this one must suck.

Again, you have no idea how DPE engineers their wheels, so saying they are worse than HRE has no basis, opinion or not. I don't question HRE's technology, like I said before, I like them better. I know you reiterated that I also do not have an idea on engineering, but I am not going around saying one company is better than the other. There's nowhere in my post where I claim I know what I'm talking about when it comes to wheels.

Yeah, I do, I'm an engineer.

About TUV and DOT. Wheels don't need to be TUV approved, and I'm sure that costs money. HRE can absorb these costs in high wheel pricing, DPE wheels cost much less and aparently they are doing well without it. They are not selling racing wheels by any means...they work for what the are, street. I'm sure if DPE thought they needed TUV approval to get more sales, they'd do so. It's a business first and foremost...probably not going to spend money on testing and approvals that they don't require for their market. I'm not saying DPE are engineered to the same standard, but I have no idea, and neither do you. So neither of us should go around spouting about how one brand is better than the other without backup.


I didn't misread, I mis-interpreted your quote, as I'm sure most others did. I'll go ahead and apologize for that, but if you read it again, you'll probably see how we saw it. When you say "they are an attempt to be like HRE" it implies HRE was the original...at least IMO.


OH yeah...that picture above my post IS NOT HRE. That pics always comes up in threads like this. Look at the centercap...not HRE.

Anyways...in effort to get the thread back on track...OP get some pics of the wheels on the car ASAP!!!

here's another one then
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      04-12-2009, 12:33 AM   #33
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Again, you have no idea how DPE engineers their wheels, so saying they are worse than HRE has no basis, opinion or not. I don't question HRE's technology, like I said before, I like them better. I know you reiterated that I also do not have an idea on engineering, but I am not going around saying one company is better than the other. There's nowhere in my post where I claim I know what I'm talking about when it comes to wheels.

About TUV and DOT. Wheels don't need to be TUV approved, and I'm sure that costs money. HRE can absorb these costs in high wheel pricing, DPE wheels cost much less and aparently they are doing well without it. They are not selling racing wheels by any means...they work for what the are, street. I'm sure if DPE thought they needed TUV approval to get more sales, they'd do so. It's a business first and foremost...probably not going to spend money on testing and approvals that they don't require for their market. I'm not saying DPE are engineered to the same standard, but I have no idea, and neither do you. So neither of us should go around spouting about how one brand is better than the other without backup.
Thanks for your prudent reply, but let's take a step back here. According to the information that DPE is giving out on their website, we actually now do know how DPE engineers their wheels. Therefore, HRE in all technicality engineers a better and safer wheel. For one, they take major steps to ensuring this through FEA testing, DPE doesn't bother. Two, they are TUV quality verified which validates any doubt regarding their engineering practices. You can't compare the engineering of a wheel that is engineered to meet DOT standards to a TUV verified wheel...

DPE claims that they get their forgings from the same supplier... ok, fine, if that is indeed true. But like I said, and as you probably already know since you're an engineer, there are many other significant steps that are missing in DPE's process. So, according to the little information mentioned above and DPE's website (thank you), my claim now has a basis and facts. So ultimately, unless DPE neglected to mention crucial steps in their manufacturing process on their website, I remain correct (with "backup") from the beginning.

You are correct, the United States doesn't require that an aftermarket manufacturer is TUV approved, but Germany does! Germany is extremely strict about engineering and safety of aftermarket products that are made or distributed within their country.

Also, it's not fair to justify that HRE's price tag is why they can absorb the extreme costs associated with being TUV approved. This takes talented engineers and a long commitment to build quality wheels. For example, I know the least expensive fastener they use is made by ARP. I'm familiar with these bolts because they are used in racing engines and they are VERY VERY expensive per bolt (probably 10x more expensive than the "rivets" that most brands use). Another example, (going back to FEA), that software costs ten's of thousands of dollars to just lease annually. Those who are willing to pay the high price tag will also recognize that their wheels are not cheap to build and they are purchasing one of the best wheels on the market.

Most brands IMO are driven by marketeers who claim they offer what the "big dog" offers but never does. It's about time people like myself actually point this out. There are so many examples of this Iforged, 360 Forged, DPE, etcetc. They all claim to sell "performance" wheels, including DPE (Dynamic Performance Engineering) who claims their wheels are "track proven and performance driven". I can't help but laugh now that the facts are on the table.
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      04-12-2009, 12:38 AM   #34
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here's another one then
Is that all you could find!?!?!? That wheel is probably 20 years old. Heck, I would imagine there would be at least more damage than that considering the differences in technology between now and then.

Come on, at least show us something that is actually relevant and valuable. I bet you can't find anything.
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      04-12-2009, 07:37 AM   #35
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I just want my wheels to be finished already so i can go around driving on my highly controversial wheels.

Thanks to everyone except ba22...



That should be good for at least one more "last" post from you.
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      04-12-2009, 09:41 AM   #36
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Let me remind you to stay on topic guys. Thanks.


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      04-12-2009, 02:05 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by MAZNG View Post
I just want my wheels to be finished already so i can go around driving on my highly controversial wheels.

Thanks to everyone except ba22...



That should be good for at least one more "last" post from you.
Nope, point made and more. Thanks for dismissing the facts though. Enjoy your new wheels!! I'm sure they'll look great. And cute baby in the avatar.
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      04-13-2009, 07:09 AM   #38
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Will do. Thanks ba
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      04-13-2009, 10:45 PM   #39
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      04-14-2009, 09:29 AM   #40
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TUV certifification???....

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Originally Posted by ba22 View Post
Seriously, this is my last one. Please carefully READ my posts before trying to call me out again. Never did I say I had "experience" in engineering. Let's get that out of the way. I said, any "knowledge" that I have gained was from my personal buying experiences. In fact, very few of these included HRE's. And yes, you will naturally learn this stuff as you buy more wheels (unless you don't care and ignore it). Every time I have purchased wheels I have more knowledge from my previous buying experience to know what to look for and avoid in terms of performance, safety, quality, etc, this helps me make an educated buying decision so I don't regret it later when the bolts on my wheels are rusty, silicone is leaking, etc.

Anyways, I then when on to say that, no, I truly don't believe that DPE engineers a better wheel than HRE. First of all, this is my opinion, not a fact. Second of all, I make this judgement partially based on what I have personally witnessed from a tour during HRE's open house last year. This has nothing to do with their marketing, it's purely a tour from their engineer of what happens behind the scenes. One thing that convinced me to buy their wheels is that they go out of their way to prove to you the big differences between them and others. In my opinion, only a company that truly does offer more would want everyone to know this.

I'm still waiting for DPE (and others within reasonable driving distance) to host an open house and personal tour from their engineers. When they do, you can count on me certainly being there. I couldn't tell you if I would have a different opinion coming out, but I can tell you that I was impressed with what I've so far seen of HRE. I hope you know that there is much more to engineering a wheel than just minimizing mass wherever you can. You need to factor in structural integrity as well (in other words... safety!).



Your points are all valid, there is no doubt about that, except that you keep claiming "I have no idea". Until we can compare weight, FEA results, etc... YOU actually have no idea. That is if DPE actually does FEA testing, which again, I doubt! I'm looking at their website, they have no reference to any kind of FEM/FEA testing, only R&D followed by CAD which is used to build their prototypes which are then tested in independent labs to exceed the standards set by DOT... DOT!

They are missing the one major step that BBS, HRE, etc takes... FEM/FEA testing. For those who don't know what that is, it's software that allows you to accurately analyze how every little point in a wheel design would react in a real life situation. DPE skips this step and tests the wheels to meet DOT standards once they have been CNC machined. My bicycle helmet is tested to meet DOT standards. You are basically proving my point and making DPE look bad at the same time.

Another thing DPE doesn't have is TUV verification. I've also learned if the company is TUV verified then you better believe they are using the highest engineering methods to build a correct and safe wheel. Important note... There is a difference between claiming that you engineer your wheels to TUV standards and actually being TUV verified.

In my opinion, it's not even fair to compare HRE to DPE. Many who are also knowledgeable on the subject will agree. Which forging supplier you use is an important step, but there is many other significant things that need to be factored in before even comparing the two.



Please read my posts as you misread them again. I said, quote "They are an attempt to be like HRE's Monoblok's" and then a few posts later "But let's get it clear that I didn't say anything about anybody inventing anything. What I find interesting is that you have a dozen small brands jumping in to make a quick buck off the success of the HRE Monoblok wheels. I haven't seen so much buzz and demand for the monoblock styles since HRE introduced their line up. Also, I wouldn't compare the Neez mesh wheel with the HRE P40 wheel as they don't share similar characteristics like the new DPE wheel (that the OP posted) and the P40 clearly do!" To my knowledge (and in my opinion!), this is true.

Thanks, you as well have a nice day.
Are you meaning to say that HRE wheels carry TUV certification?
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      04-14-2009, 02:42 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by TonyTone View Post
Cant wait to see them in person! We are gonna have a shoot together
Sounds like a plan They are wanting to see good pics of the car with their new wheels on it, as well.

DPE said they should be shipping by week end which means I should have them by next week sometime.
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      04-14-2009, 03:28 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ba22 View Post
Seriously, this is my last one. Please carefully READ my posts before trying to call me out again. Never did I say I had "experience" in engineering. Let's get that out of the way. I said, any "knowledge" that I have gained was from my personal buying experiences. In fact, very few of these included HRE's. And yes, you will naturally learn this stuff as you buy more wheels (unless you don't care and ignore it). Every time I have purchased wheels I have more knowledge from my previous buying experience to know what to look for and avoid in terms of performance, safety, quality, etc, this helps me make an educated buying decision so I don't regret it later when the bolts on my wheels are rusty, silicone is leaking, etc.

Anyways, I then when on to say that, no, I truly don't believe that DPE engineers a better wheel than HRE. First of all, this is my opinion, not a fact. Second of all, I make this judgement partially based on what I have personally witnessed from a tour during HRE's open house last year. This has nothing to do with their marketing, it's purely a tour from their engineer of what happens behind the scenes. One thing that convinced me to buy their wheels is that they go out of their way to prove to you the big differences between them and others. In my opinion, only a company that truly does offer more would want everyone to know this.

I'm still waiting for DPE (and others within reasonable driving distance) to host an open house and personal tour from their engineers. When they do, you can count on me certainly being there. I couldn't tell you if I would have a different opinion coming out, but I can tell you that I was impressed with what I've so far seen of HRE. I hope you know that there is much more to engineering a wheel than just minimizing mass wherever you can. You need to factor in structural integrity as well (in other words... safety!).



Your points are all valid, there is no doubt about that, except that you keep claiming "I have no idea". Until we can compare weight, FEA results, etc... YOU actually have no idea. That is if DPE actually does FEA testing, which again, I doubt! I'm looking at their website, they have no reference to any kind of FEM/FEA testing, only R&D followed by CAD which is used to build their prototypes which are then tested in independent labs to exceed the standards set by DOT... DOT!

They are missing the one major step that BBS, HRE, etc takes... FEM/FEA testing. For those who don't know what that is, it's software that allows you to accurately analyze how every little point in a wheel design would react in a real life situation. DPE skips this step and tests the wheels to meet DOT standards once they have been CNC machined. My bicycle helmet is tested to meet DOT standards. You are basically proving my point and making DPE look bad at the same time.

Another thing DPE doesn't have is TUV verification. I've also learned if the company is TUV verified then you better believe they are using the highest engineering methods to build a correct and safe wheel. Important note... There is a difference between claiming that you engineer your wheels to TUV standards and actually being TUV verified.

In my opinion, it's not even fair to compare HRE to DPE. Many who are also knowledgeable on the subject will agree. Which forging supplier you use is an important step, but there is many other significant things that need to be factored in before even comparing the two.



Please read my posts as you misread them again. I said, quote "They are an attempt to be like HRE's Monoblok's" and then a few posts later "But let's get it clear that I didn't say anything about anybody inventing anything. What I find interesting is that you have a dozen small brands jumping in to make a quick buck off the success of the HRE Monoblok wheels. I haven't seen so much buzz and demand for the monoblock styles since HRE introduced their line up. Also, I wouldn't compare the Neez mesh wheel with the HRE P40 wheel as they don't share similar characteristics like the new DPE wheel (that the OP posted) and the P40 clearly do!" To my knowledge (and in my opinion!), this is true.

Thanks, you as well have a nice day.
FEA doesn't cost as much as you think. A FEA station can be had for less than $10,000. I`m not sure if you have any idea what you are talking about. Also FEA is very good for conducting testings BEFORE releasing final stats but if used as the only tool for testing could be a disaster. Wheels must be put to physical testings as well such as SAE, JWL/VIA or TUV.

TUV Verified and TUV Certified is not the same thing. They have a TUV certified process of making wheels. It is not the same as each individual wheel being tested and TUV approved. If they are we would all love to see the certifications. Typical HRE marketing though

About visiting the HRE facility, I`m sure 99% of the people that visit have no knowledge whatsoever of what they are looking at and walk out of there absolutely impressed at how 3Pc wheels are made and not so much at the technology involved in making actual wheels.

When a wheel is over 25lbs in a 19", is "custom" machined from stocked blanks, is built from the lowest available forging tonnage 4000 and is retailed for $5600 it really says a lot about that company. You want a performance wheel? Get some Volk TE37 or Advan RS for less than $3,000. Take a look at the RAC group buy or pick up some MORR.

HRE are overpriced mediocre wheels that have been marketed excellently, very close to 360Forged Marketing is the key here. I have dozens of things I can say related to this topic yet I honestly don't see the point anymore. People are still ignorant and will stay ignorant to the fact that HRE is not a performance wheel manufacturer. Period.

Maybe the guys from RAC will chime in.
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      04-14-2009, 11:54 PM   #43
Tyler McQuarrie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAZNG View Post
I'm super excited about getting my new wheels since the offsets of my 20" DPE S-10 (phantom Black) won't look right without huge spacers. Which are up for sale BTW.

Anyway, here are some pics I just received... Wheels will be powder coated Satin Black to match the theme of my M (the very rare AW/Red/CF & Black theme) LOL

Specs: F - 20" x 9", R - 20" x 11"

Questions for the all knowing fanatics on here:

What can you tell me about these wheels (besides the name brand)?

Which model do you think they are?


I'm curious to know what you guys think. Before some of you start knocking the pics, Please keep in mind that they have just been cut and have not been finished yet so may be a bit of roughness. They sent these photos to me to show me the progress of my wheels.









I've been talking to Manu about this same setup, size, and finish. Did they tell you the off set?
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      04-15-2009, 10:11 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler McQuarrie View Post
I've been talking to Manu about this same setup, size, and finish. Did they tell you the off set?
I didn't ask but will ask them about the offset. I did reiterate about 100 times that I wanted a flush fitment (w/o being overly aggressive to cause rubbing since I'm lowered on RD Springs and using beefy tires).lol. They test fit on a local M3 and told me I would be happy
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