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      11-01-2009, 03:31 PM   #111
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too bad theyre cast!
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      11-01-2009, 05:28 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Fresh View Post
too bad theyre cast!
You can't just lump all cast wheels into one category like that brother.

Some CAST wheels like the CH-R are the exception to the rule.

The Forgestar stuff...meh...not so much.

BTW: If you had bumped the right CH-R thread, you would understand this a little better.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...9&postcount=43

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      11-01-2009, 05:32 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Fresh View Post
too bad theyre cast!
The last post before yours was on 10-1-09...

Hmm...
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      11-17-2009, 03:54 PM   #114
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Is BBS going to offer 19" for a E86 Z4 M Coupe? Very interested in this wheel...
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      11-17-2009, 04:16 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
You can't just lump all cast wheels into one category like that brother.

Some CAST wheels like the CH-R are the exception to the rule.

The Forgestar stuff...meh...not so much.

BTW: If you had bumped the right CH-R thread, you would understand this a little better.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...9&postcount=43

Knowledge is power my friend.
Nice wheel and I'm sure it is great! Very tempting...

However, replacing my forged factory 19s with these wheels makes no sense in terms of quality and performance.

However, BBS does make a very similar wheel that is forged $$$$$

-SZ
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      11-17-2009, 04:39 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mav View Post
Is BBS going to offer 19" for a E86 Z4 M Coupe? Very interested in this wheel...
There is no E86 Z4M CH-R fitment at this time, but it's not out of the question at this point.
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      11-17-2009, 04:53 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO View Post
Nice wheel and I'm sure it is great! Very tempting...

However, replacing my forged factory 19s with these wheels makes no sense in terms of quality and performance.

However, BBS does make a very similar wheel that is forged $$$$$

-SZ
You make a great point, and I certainly can't disagree with that mindset...

I feel the same way 99% of the time, but as I stated before...these flow-formed wheels are a bit different than the standard cast wheels on the market today.

They have a LOAD RATING of 720kg, which is out of this world for any cast wheel. That translates to outstanding durability. Many FORGED wheels can't manage a load rating THAT high.

The engineering resources that went into the construction of the CH-R is staggering. The CH-R was a project that took over two years to develop.

Yes, they are a little heavier than the stock forged OEM 19's, but the CH-R is still an outstanding wheel product. (especially for the ~2k asking price in the 19" fitment)
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      11-17-2009, 04:57 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
You make a great point, and I certainly can't disagree with that mindset...

I feel the same way 99% of the time, but as I stated before...these flow-formed wheels are a bit different than the standard cast wheels on the market today.

They have a LOAD RATING of 720kg, which is out of this world for any cast wheel. That translates to outstanding durability. Many FORGED wheels can't manage a load rating THAT high.

The engineering resources that went into the construction of the CH-R is staggering. The CH-R was a project that took over two years to develop.

Yes, they are a little heavier than the stock forged OEM 19's, but the CH-R is still an outstanding wheel product. (especially for the ~2k asking price in the 19" fitment)
I agree. Great looking wheel with the quality that BBS is known for. And the price is very attractive!

There are many no-name wheel manufacturers selling their inferior, poorly tested wheels for about the same price

It seems like every Joe Schmo in Miami is now an Engineer...LOL.

-SZ
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      11-17-2009, 05:47 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
There is no E86 Z4M CH-R fitment at this time, but it's not out of the question at this point.
Thanks. Hopefully BBS will make a fitment.

In the meantime, I see that they make a CH fitment. What's the differences between the CH and CH-R? Besides the design, more concavity? Weight? Manufacturing differences?
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      11-17-2009, 08:05 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mav View Post
Thanks. Hopefully BBS will make a fitment.

In the meantime, I see that they make a CH fitment. What's the differences between the CH and CH-R? Besides the design, more concavity? Weight? Manufacturing differences?
The CH-R is an evolution of the popular CH wheel.

The original CH has been on the market now for over ten years, and the company decided it was time adapt some of their more recent manufacturing technologies to develop a new version.

The CH-R is flow formed cast, just like it's the CH.

Yes, the 19" CH-R wheels are slightly more concave than the 20" versions.

The weight of the 19" CH-R fitment is approx. 2.5 lbs lighter per wheel than the 20" versions. (front and rear)

There are two distinct differences between the original CH and the new CH-R wheel...

The CH-R was re-designed to incorporate the use of BBS' racing derived Back-Milling technology. (which allows the safe removal of aluminum from the sides of the spokes) This type of CNC milling is more commonly seen on H-beam connecting rods for internal combustion engines.

The purpose of course is to save weight. But...

You really have to understand wheel engineering in order to accomplish this goal...without compromising it's structural integrity.

You don't want to end up with a lighter weight wheel, that is not as strong as it was without the back milled spokes. This would defeat the entire purpose, so why bother?

That means you have to properly engineer and test several different prototypes, to find the one that works the best.

This is why it took BBS so long to develop this new CH-R version. In order for this wheel to meet their lofty build construction standards...it had to pass the most difficult "minimum" strength testing requirements in the entire wheel industry. (their own! )

The BBS in-house testing lab would annihilate 90% of the wheels produced outside their factory walls. (fact)

So if you are going to attempt to reduce the weight of a cast wheel (even a cast flow-formed wheel), you have to make sure that you don't reduce the LOAD RATING of the wheel in the process.

That is very difficult to accomplish with a cast wheel. You simply don't have as much latitude as an 8000 TON Forged wheel for example (due to it's tighter denser grain structure) The overall weight of a cast aluminum alloy wheel, is more directly tied to it's load rating than a forged aluminum alloy wheel, so there is less 'fat' available to trim off the design without losing strength.

That is where BBS and their top-flight wheel engineers enter the picture.

Any company (with access to a CNC milling machine) can remove metal from key areas of the design to reduce weight. That's the EASY way to do it. Unfortunately, if you don't do extensive FEA simulation testing, and build several physical prototype samples, you won't know for sure what effect that CNC milling has done beyond a reasonable doubt. On top of that, the lab testing regimen must apply to every wheel diameter & width IN EVERY POSSIBLE OFFSET available. Now keep in mind, this kind of exhaustive testing is very expensive when you happen to be a company the size of BBS. That covers a large number of different wheel sizes, and that just for the CH-R. Multiply that times the number of different automotive brands out there, and you'll start to understand the SCOPE (and the internal costs) associated with bringing a new BBS wheel product to the marketplace. It takes a vast amount of resources, and a lot of hard work to make it happen.

And after all that..the payoff comes very slowly over several months (or even an entire calender year) depending on the wheel model in question.

The capitol costs involved in the development phase, are in excess of a few hundred grand to build 1 new BBS wheel product. (that meets their standards)

This is why I'm probably so harsh in regards to these fly-by-night wheel operations, who try to compare themselves to BBS in any way.

Many of these wheel brands don't own a single piece of wheel manufacturing equipment, nor can they properly engineer a wheel product that meets the minimum safety requirements for your particular vehicle. (and they have the audacity to compare themselves to BBS)



The second reason is...the CH-R incorporates a stainless steel rim 'lip' protector, just in case you accidentally curb one of your wheels. This SS wheel lip protector is removable and replaceable if necessary. The CH "Black Series" also incorporated this new technology last year.
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      11-18-2009, 07:36 AM   #121
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      11-18-2009, 01:11 PM   #122
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Awesome explanation Lemans_Blue_M. I'm very familiar with BBS' quality. This isn't my first set of BBS wheels and certainly not my last. I had a set of RGR's on my S2000 and LM's on my E46 M3. I loved them.

I may hold out for a while in hopes of BBS producing a proper CH-R fitment for the M Coupe.
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      07-09-2010, 10:45 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
That's crazy heavy..
How does that compare to stock 19"s?
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      06-11-2011, 05:51 PM   #124
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Question:

Do they fit on a X6M ? Im concerned about the extra weight of the X6M against M3's and M5's
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      06-16-2011, 11:56 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motex View Post
Question:

Do they fit on a X6M ? Im concerned about the extra weight of the X6M against M3's and M5's
the BBS CH-R has a load rating of about 1600lbs.
this is quite good and I am not 100% sure on the load rating needed for the X6M but definitely possible as far as load rating goes.

the only issue with the X6M is that they have a different hub diameter front and rear on the X6M. not too sure if BBS has a PFS kit for that car.

will find out~~
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      06-16-2011, 06:07 PM   #126
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Thanks a lot !

I will never get to understand the reason BMW used different hubs on front and rear......I had a bad experience using hubcentric rings in my former X6 30d.....
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