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      04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #1
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Rear diffusers saga continues...

Rear diffusers saga continues... to put off die hard fans of F1. It would have been so simple for them to sort it out before the first race, and clarify what is acceptable and what is not.

Why wait till the first races and wait for a protest? Every year, there are always some sort of controversies... and the more they allow to happen, the more people will switch it off.

Should have got the team to vote, and as Honda, Williams, and Brawn would not have agreed, then they should be allowed their diffusers, and someone from the FIA or Charlie Whiting should have clarify that before the season begins.
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      04-08-2009, 10:45 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
Rear diffusers saga continues... to put off die hard fans of F1. It would have been so simple for them to sort it out before the first race, and clarify what is acceptable and what is not.

Why wait till the first races and wait for a protest? Every year, there are always some sort of controversies... and the more they allow to happen, the more people will switch it off.

Should have got the team to vote, and as Honda, Williams, and Brawn would not have agreed, then they should be allowed their diffusers, and someone from the FIA or Charlie Whiting should have clarify that before the season begins.
Even though Ross Brawn warned the teams about the diffusor loophole almost a year ago when OWG (overtaking working group) draft up the diffusor design regulations. but they opt to ignore it....so for those who were not involved in OWG (Toyota, Brawn GP, and Williams) read the written rules, found the loophole and took as advantage....

the teams who involved in OWG (Ferrari, McLaren, Renault...etc) naively thought the rules were clearly written and went with the flat diffusor they had in mind....becuase when they wrote the rules, they had an mental image how the diffusor should look like....and believe everyone else will be just the same because the "rules" were "clearly" written....

then they saw the "diffusor three" came to Australia and making good lap times....they were furious and scared....however the Parc Ferme deemed the diffusor three cars were all ok to race....they did not break any regulations that were written....
(even tho most fans believed that they violated the spirit of the rule)

the teams didn't the major advantage the diffusor can make (well...they should've known when ross brawn warned them a long time ago and with so many experts in aerodynamics...pshhhh...) they officially make a protest to the FIA and the rules and diffusor three will be in investigation.....
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      04-08-2009, 10:54 AM   #3
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You gotta wonder if the other teams would be complaining if they didn't put up good numbers? Of course not...
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      04-08-2009, 11:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Even though Ross Brawn warned the teams about the diffusor loophole almost a year ago when OWG (overtaking working group) draft up the diffusor design regulations. but they opt to ignore it....so for those who were not involved in OWG (Toyota, Brawn GP, and Williams) read the written rules, found the loophole and took as advantage....

the teams who involved in OWG (Ferrari, McLaren, Renault...etc) naively thought the rules were clearly written and went with the flat diffusor they had in mind....becuase when they wrote the rules, they had an mental image how the diffusor should look like....and believe everyone else will be just the same because the "rules" were "clearly" written....

then they saw the "diffusor three" came to Australia and making good lap times....they were furious and scared....however the Parc Ferme deemed the diffusor three cars were all ok to race....they did not break any regulations that were written....
(even tho most fans believed that they violated the spirit of the rule)

the teams didn't the major advantage the diffusor can make (well...they should've known when ross brawn warned them a long time ago and with so many experts in aerodynamics...pshhhh...) they officially make a protest to the FIA and the rules and diffusor three will be in investigation.....
That has got to be hardest to understand post I have ever read; especially the last paragraph.

I understand that those involved with the "OWG" seem to have developed an "unfair" advantage but how is this a violation if the current rules allow it?
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      04-08-2009, 11:34 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMan77 View Post
That has got to be hardest to understand post I have ever read; especially the last paragraph.

I understand that those involved with the "OWG" seem to have developed an "unfair" advantage but how is this a violation if the current rules allow it?
there's not "violation" of rules watsoever....they just protest it coz they're slower and violated the spirit of the rules.....

the "diffusor three" designed the rear crash structure (where the LED light sits) to work as a double deck diffusor and increase downforce to the rear....

the others followed strictly wat was written on the rules and have a single deck diffusor....so less downforce....
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      04-08-2009, 11:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
there's not "violation" of rules watsoever....they just protest it coz they're slower and violated the spirit of the rules.....

the "diffusor three" designed the rear crash structure (where the LED light sits) to work as a double deck diffusor and increase downforce to the rear....

the others followed strictly wat was written on the rules and have a single deck diffusor....so less downforce....
Wow... it violated the "spirit of the rules". If the FIA had stated in the rules not to modify the rear crash structure so as to allow more down force then they would have every right to protest. They are just not happy because they didn't think about it first.

This is how sports lose spectators because nobody wants to hear about the trivial.
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      04-08-2009, 01:25 PM   #7
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everyone loves the drama. as a matter of fact i suspect f1 turned into this big soap opera saga just so that we all talk about it.
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      04-08-2009, 01:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMan77 View Post
Wow... it violated the "spirit of the rules". If the FIA had stated in the rules not to modify the rear crash structure so as to allow more down force then they would have every right to protest. They are just not happy because they didn't think about it first.

This is how sports lose spectators because nobody wants to hear about the trivial.


that's what Ross Brawn warned all others about the "loophole" a year ago when they were drafting the regulations.....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74282

Quote:
"If I'm frank I didn't say 'look we are going to do this diffuser if you don't accept this rule' because I'm not going to tell people what we're doing, but I explained that I felt that we should have a different set of rules to simplify what needs to be done.

"I offered them and they were rejected, so my conscience is very clear. And those rules that I put on the table would have stopped a lot of things. It would have stopped the diffuser, it would have stopped all those bargeboards around the front, and it would have cleaned the cars up.

"Because it was clear that when we started to work on the regulations that there were things that you could do, and we needed to perhaps clean them up, but nobody was interested. They are interested now."
all other teams should give themselves a for not listening to Ross Brawn.....
just like Bernie not listening to others that it'll rain in Malaysia at 6pm!!!
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      04-08-2009, 08:06 PM   #9
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My personal view is that the diffuser three got every right because they didn't break any rules despite it is not in the spirit of the rules. However, what should have happened is that Charlie Whiting should come out way before the championship has started and stated that their designed is allowed within the current rules, and if the other teams disagree, they'll have to try to get a rule change (which is not going to happen without the consent of the diffuser three).

If the rules had been clear, or clarified right from the beginning, then the sport won't be once again in controversies.

The only good thing is I am sure the Brawn, Toyota and Williams are legal, but if Brawn ended up winning the championship, those people in the other camps would say they have been cheating.
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      04-09-2009, 10:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparoz View Post
My personal view is that the diffuser three got every right because they didn't break any rules despite it is not in the spirit of the rules. However, what should have happened is that Charlie Whiting should come out way before the championship has started and stated that their designed is allowed within the current rules, and if the other teams disagree, they'll have to try to get a rule change (which is not going to happen without the consent of the diffuser three).

If the rules had been clear, or clarified right from the beginning, then the sport won't be once again in controversies.

The only good thing is I am sure the Brawn, Toyota and Williams are legal, but if Brawn ended up winning the championship, those people in the other camps would say they have been cheating.
+1
I agree the diffusor three is "technically legal" for thei diffusor design....the other put themselves into this disadvantage situation....
if they lose the champion....its themselves to blame....
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      04-09-2009, 07:40 PM   #11
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Ferrari has always exploited loopholes w/ Brawn/Todt/Byrne; it's very surprising that they didn't this year. I guess you really need experience to find these kind of things.

You usually wait to protest after the race so you can exclude people from the results (due to illegal cars). If the teams lodged a protest before a race, and opponents then change their car to 'legal' status, there is still a chance for them to get points.

As for the political drama... it's been enough where I have dropped a significant amount of interest in F1.

I was watching the Malaysian race and Steve Matchett was mentioning it was illegal to cover the cars w/ anything... so Toyota had maybe 5-7 mechanics blocking a TV view to their diffuser.
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      04-10-2009, 09:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkx5m View Post
everyone loves the drama. as a matter of fact i suspect f1 turned into this big soap opera saga just so that we all talk about it.
Racing is about racing, not drama. I am sure a lot of people have lost interest in F1 because of this.
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      04-10-2009, 09:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMan77 View Post
Racing is about racing, not drama. I am sure a lot of people have lost interest in F1 because of this.
More importantly, Bernie thinks people like drama.
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      04-11-2009, 09:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampfer View Post
F

You usually wait to protest after the race so you can exclude people from the results (due to illegal cars). If the teams lodged a protest before a race, and opponents then change their car to 'legal' status, there is still a chance for them to get points.
they protested before Australia. The race stewards declared he diffuser illegal. BMW didn't get their protest in on time, and thus protested before Malaysia. And again the stewards declared it to be legal. All those teams appealed the rulings to the FIA.
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      04-14-2009, 10:18 AM   #15
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http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...187619,00.html

verdict will be in tomorrow
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      04-14-2009, 09:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
predictions?
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      04-15-2009, 10:39 AM   #17
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predictions?
verdicts are in....see other in...
the innovative diffusor are LEGAL!!!
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      04-15-2009, 11:18 AM   #18
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Yes! Now it's catch up time for the rest.
Enjoy the advantage while you have it.
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      04-15-2009, 01:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankoQ View Post
Yes! Now it's catch up time for the rest.
Enjoy the advantage while you have it.
even when teams like Ferrari re-design the entire chassis and diffusor....its going to take them a while to catch up....don't forget teams are NOT ALLOWED to test their cars during season....so the only opportunity for them to know the result and fine tune their cars is during race weekends.....

teams have a LOT to catch up....
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      04-15-2009, 01:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
even when teams like Ferrari re-design the entire chassis and diffusor....its going to take them a while to catch up....don't forget teams are NOT ALLOWED to test their cars during season....so the only opportunity for them to know the result and fine tune their cars is during race weekends.....

teams have a LOT to catch up....
Very good point!
Some are saying the season now starts at Barcelona for the non diffuser 3 teams. Even then, they can only test on race weekends.

Wow.
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      04-15-2009, 02:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankoQ View Post
Very good point!
Some are saying the season now starts at Barcelona for the non diffuser 3 teams. Even then, they can only test on race weekends.

Wow.
Not to discourage fans of McLaren (myself is Mecca fan too), Ferrari, Redbull, Renault, BMW Sauber.....even tho they can test in their wind tunnel and fluid dynamic analysis softwares....but wind tunnel models can only be 1:2 scale....so the data acquired is nothing compare to the actual feel and data log from track driving....
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      04-16-2009, 02:53 AM   #22
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Finally, everyone can move on! It will be interesting to see who would be the quickest when all the diffusers are in!
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