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      03-31-2009, 07:05 AM   #23
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oneginee I'm essentially paying $6887 under U.S. MSRP. Probably not the best deal out there, but good enough for me. Gives me plenty of wiggle room on the trip to make sure I'm still saving money overall

E90M3CDFR Awesome. Looks like there will be some good options near Nürburgring. I'll have to look into Adenau and the German tech history museum.

MTROIS Sounds like fun…I'll map the drive on Google and see if I can make the days work out, thank you!

This forum is fantastic. Thanks again everyone for the welcome and great suggestions. This is exactly what I need
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      03-31-2009, 01:11 PM   #24
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oneginee I'm essentially paying $6887 under U.S. MSRP. Probably not the best deal out there, but good enough for me. Gives me plenty of wiggle room on the trip to make sure I'm still saving money overall
Kloh, was this a European Delivery price?

I am looking to get a M3 Sedan with European Delivery. MSRP on BMW's site after configuration is $70K. I will start looking around and negotiate a price but I am not sure how low is good.

Also I am not sure what might be the best negotiating practice; say up-front I want European Delivery and start from there or maybe negotiate a normal delivery price and then see if I can go even lower by mentioning European Delivery?

Any thoughts?
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      03-31-2009, 03:13 PM   #25
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Take ED invoice, add options at US invoice, add GGT, add destination, add dealer profit ($500-1500), make offer. If dealer doesn't accept, find new dealer.
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      03-31-2009, 04:31 PM   #26
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Kloh, was this a European Delivery price?
I wish I had the details gobuffs mentioned, but I didn't do as much research as I should have beforehand. I got lazy after I couldn't find ED invoice. But from what I gathered, the published ED price is about equivalent to US invoice, give or take a few hundred. The published savings is around $4k, and since I was able to get my deal $6887 under MSRP, I was happy.

What I noticed was that the dealers I spoke with weren't too keen on offering up ED unless they were asked about it specifically. My guess is this is due to the fact that they would prefer to sell from their inventory.

If I had to do it again, I'd go the route gobuffs suggested.
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      03-31-2009, 05:56 PM   #27
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ED invoice for a M3 sedan is 54,850 minus 7% for invoice and then minus another 7% for ED invoice. That puts the ED invoice at about 47,400. Then add in options at invoice plus gas guzzler and taxes. Then put in what you want to pay over ED invoice. I think $1000 is a good average. I gave $1500 to the dealer but should have gone lower. If they don't take it, move on. I paid about 62K for a very nicely optioned M3 sedan with about everything except premium and 19" wheels. That includes taxes and 1.5k over ED invoice. Pick up is two weeks away!
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      04-01-2009, 06:48 AM   #28
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MSRP for a M3 sedan is 54,850 minus 7% for invoice and then minus another 7% for ED invoice. That puts the ED invoice at about 47,400.
Fixed your error. Also, the exact final number for ED invoice is $46,930.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=49

Of course you have to add $500 to $1500 for dealer profit. And then options. And tax/title/license. Still, you can probably get a low-option E90 M3 for just over $50k out the door right now. Incredible deal.
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      04-01-2009, 06:50 PM   #29
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Sorry about both my errors.

It is a very good time to buy an M3 on Euro Delivery.
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      04-04-2009, 03:52 PM   #30
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Avoid Spain and France if possible. One exception would be the French National Auto Museum in Mulhouse, Alsace, if you like old cars. Southern Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy are all beautiful.
Yep, I'll be heading to Mulhouse - en route from Bavaria (which is gorgeous) to Provence - can't wait to see the Bugattis and the classic F1 cars

I need to think about the speed camera issue posted on above; all I had planned to do was take my V1.

Hey Kloh: when are you picking up your M? And where are you staying in München?
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      04-04-2009, 04:02 PM   #31
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Hey Kloh: when are you picking up your M? And where are you staying in München?
My delivery isn't until August (waiting for my boy to be out of school for the summer, plus I have some big work deadlines in July).

Haven't quite settled on where to stay yet. Still doing my research, but I want to end up somewhere near BMW Welt. I'm planning on arriving in Münich the evening of Aug 3rd and staying maybe till the 5th or 6th.
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      04-04-2009, 04:15 PM   #32
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Haven't quite settled on where to stay yet. Still doing my research, but I want to end up somewhere near BMW Welt. I'm planning on arriving in Münich the evening of Aug 3rd and staying maybe till the 5th or 6th.
It's too bad it has to be then as it's summer holidays in Europe and the roads are crowded. I'm doing mine early June - only 2m

As to areas: I'm not sure I'd stay near Die Welt. Olympiapark is OK but it's more interesting to stay nearer to Marienplatz. This time we're staying at the Kempinksi Vier on Maximilianstraße - lovely boulevard and very central. Schwabing is a nice area that's not far from the center and a boutique alternative is Fleming's on Leopoldstraße - though not sure about the parking situation there.

Did you know you can arrange to park the car at Die Welt? The Munich subway system is fast and clean and you may not wish to deal w/ parking in the city.
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      04-04-2009, 04:25 PM   #33
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Voltigeur Thanks for the tips. So, Münich is not a good parking city, eh? Would you say it's like NY and San Francisco? Parking at the Welt is a good idea if that's the case, as long as the public transportation is easy.

My only thoughts about staying near Die Welt is for easy quick access. I plan to also visit the manufacturing plant, which I thought was somewhat nearby but I'm not sure. Beyond spending a day or two at the Welt and another afternoon at the plant, I wasn't planning on doing much more in Münich besides visit with an old friend. I want to get to the driving part of the trip quickly
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      04-04-2009, 04:27 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltigeur View Post
It's too bad it has to be then as it's summer holidays in Europe and the roads are crowded. I'm doing mine early June - only 2m
Yeah, I hope it's not too crowded

Congrats on your June date! I wish I could do mine earlier. Not sure I can take this wait, LOL.
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      04-04-2009, 05:15 PM   #35
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I need to think about the speed camera issue posted on above; all I had planned to do was take my V1.
You may want to look into whether to bring/use your V1 in Germany/France. Detectors are illegal in both countries and the fines if caught are high plus confiscation of the device (at least). In many cases, the V1, even if you switch it to European mode, may not detect the cameras until too late (the radar emitter for the mobile cams is very low power) or not at all (some of the fixed ones use sensors in the road). Most speed stops by police (as opposed to the fixed cameras) now seem to involve LIDAR handheld units from what I can see driving by (the tell-tale sniper scope attachment on top), or a radar unit mounted in a car/or on a tripod by the road.

I would say you'll be fine in France if you watch other traffic and slow when they do or watch for the speed camera signs. The only people I have ever seen zapped by the fixed cameras are UK plated drivers. Almost all fixed camera sites are very clearly posted about 400-500 meters from the camera box (the box may be empty but you'll only find out for sure if you trip it). Many small towns have a camera right as you enter town...considering how small and tight the roads are, you'll want to slow down anyway to avoid the kids/etc. The locals won't slow down and will tailgate you all through their own small village...speeding by their own neighbors and kids.

Also, watch cars parked on the side of the road, the police set up mobile cam units frequnetly by the side of the road -- you can sometimes spot by looking for the white rectangle cut into the tailgate/trunk for the flash. Just pretend you're looking for IEDs roadside...the cars are manned, so if they see a tourist plated car drive by after the picture gets taken, they will have you pulled over to collect the fine on the spot.

As an alternative, get a GPS that has the camera database loaded into it or a dedicate camera GPS located like the Inforad. If you have a Blackberry or a PDA, TelNav has a GPS navigation program that loads the camera positions as well.

Obviously most of this applies to France only where there is more and more speed enforcement. In Germany you should be able to find quite a bit of open road to enjoy.
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      04-04-2009, 06:24 PM   #36
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Voltigeur Thanks for the tips. So, Münich is not a good parking city, eh? Would you say it's like NY and San Francisco? Parking at the Welt is a good idea if that's the case, as long as the public transportation is easy.

My only thoughts about staying near Die Welt is for easy quick access. I plan to also visit the manufacturing plant, which I thought was somewhat nearby but I'm not sure.
kloh Yes, parking is tight in Munchen. I am going to park at our hotel and walk and/or take the U-bahn to our fav restaurants. That way we can also drink some excellent Helles or Dunkel (beer) or wine & not be concerned about driving. Really, you can get out to Die Welt very quickly via the excellent U-bahn system: it's a doddle to get around and enjoy the M-car on the open road.

The plant is right over the road. You should check to see if it is producing cars at the time as Europeans get more holidays - for e.g. the week I am there it is closed ; I will visit the excellent museum in lieu. If I were you I'd do the pick-up + plant tour on the same day then stay somewhere more central so you can walk and soak the city in, it will be great for your son, just my 2c.

For a good Autobahnen: I like the A95 Munchen -> Garmisch. I can't recall the one that goes around Wurzburg but I had a nice run there.

For a more relaxing drive try the Romantische Strasse (great small towns).
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      04-04-2009, 06:29 PM   #37
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You may want to look into whether to bring/use your V1 in Germany/France. .... tell-tale sniper scope attachment on top), or a radar unit mounted in a car/or on a tripod by the road.
Good advice - thanks. kloh - don't mean to

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Originally Posted by E90M3CDFR View Post
.considering how small and tight the roads are, you'll want to slow down anyway to avoid the kids/etc. The locals won't slow down and will tailgate you all through their own small village...speeding by their own neighbors and kids.
I never do this in any case - it's moronic. Also, I used to live in Bayern, in a small village, and I detested arscholes who sped through Yes, and what's up w/ impatient locals - too bad, we'll just have to take it easy until I blow you off

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Originally Posted by E90M3CDFR View Post
As an alternative, get a GPS that has the camera database loaded into it or a dedicate camera GPS located like the Inforad. If you have a Blackberry or a PDA, TelNav has a GPS navigation program that loads the camera positions as well. Germany you should be able to find quite a bit of open road to enjoy.
Will look into it. I have an iPhone, not a Crackberry. Yes, Deutschland is still a driver's dream - but there's a growing movement, as you know, to seek to impose speed limits.

Enjoy this time - and V8s - while it lasts!

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      04-06-2009, 01:27 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTROIS View Post
Here is an idea for your itinerary:

Start in Munich / SW to Konstanz, drive along the lake / W to Zürich / NW to Mulhouse (amazing car museum) / N via the Vosges (French side) on what is called the "route des crêtes" (i.e., Ridge Road) and "Route des Vins" (i.e., Wine Road) or via the Black Forest (German side) with lots of twisty roads / Strasbourg / Stuttgart and its Porsche museum (just an amazing experience) / Koblenz / Nuerburg
MTROIS Is this what you outlined above? http://************/c7j65x

Or am I missing some of the details of which particular route to take? I suppose the first portion could mimic what I also have below to get through Sudelfeld-Bergstrasse, Kesselbergstrasse and Neuschwanstein...

I came up with this based on a few key points of interest I want to hit: http://************/cgmozl

Namely,

- Sudelfeld-Bergstrasse
- ArabellaSheraton Alpenhotel
- Wallergstrasse and Kesselbergstrasse
- Neuschwanstein Castle
- Porche Museum in Stuttgart
- Nürburgring
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      04-06-2009, 01:28 AM   #39
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Good advice - thanks. kloh - don't mean to
No worries...all still good, interesting info
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      04-06-2009, 05:36 PM   #40
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Just booked my flight.

Now i need a hotel! Im hearing priceline is a good place to bid for a price....

Im looking a nice mountain route to drive from Munich thats maybe less than 3 hours away. Any suggestions?
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      04-06-2009, 05:51 PM   #41
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Just booked my flight.

Now i need a hotel! Im hearing priceline is a good place to bid for a price....

Im looking a nice mountain route to drive from Munich thats maybe less than 3 hours away. Any suggestions?
I'm probably doing the priceline thing too. Here's what I *think* my itinerary is going to look like http://************/cgmozl

The mountains south of munich are an hour and a half or so away. Points B through G on my map above indicate a route suggested on BMW-Routes ( http://www.bmw-routes.com/de/en/rout...ue-country.jsp ) though not exactly the same waypoints. I kinda used generic ones to make the route do what I wanted it to do...but now I realize you can manually edit routes in Google Maps, lol.
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      04-06-2009, 10:34 PM   #42
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Ah perfect! Exactly what i was looking for. Thanks!
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      04-07-2009, 02:35 PM   #43
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I'm probably doing the priceline thing too. Here's what I *think* my itinerary is going to look like http://************/cgmozl
Pretty nice route.

Yes, a visit to the Porsche Museum (new one just opened) in Zuffenhausen should be done.

I'd also consider modifying your route to take the A95 to Garmisch - on a clear day consider taking a gondola up to the Zugspitze - then down from the mountains to Fussen. I see your route goes through Wiesoloch - some wineries around there (don't forget to spit, as you are driving ) - also the famous uni town of Heidelberg is a good spot to visit, if you have time.

You'll have a blast
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      04-07-2009, 09:01 PM   #44
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MTROIS Is this what you outlined above? http://************/c7j65x

Or am I missing some of the details of which particular route to take?

Almost... just the portion between Mulhouse and Strasbourg was off. Try this:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...,0.314827&z=12

Or you can always PM if you think you will be going through France.
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