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      04-07-2009, 10:03 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
That smoothness you hated was it's perfectly balanced chassis and controls in action. Unlike the M3 the Cayman never ever feels like it will snap sideways when driven hard due to excessive amounts of power, in fact I don't know how much power it would really require to give it the feeling that your right foot was your safety net. All I know is that I could quite easily string a dozen laps within a couple of tenths in the Cayman over any other car that springs to mind.
I understand and agree with you regarding the Cayman's handling dynamics.

However, I DO like "excessive amounts of power". You can always modulate excessive with a sensitive right foot and reasonable reflexes. I like that about M cars. I'd probably take a Z4M over a Cayman S because of the car's character.

Is the Cayman a superior piece of engineering? Probably. Is it faster? Definitely for a novice driver, not so sure for an experienced driver. Is it more fun? Not for me.

However, I have to say that I did drive a Lotus Elise at the track and loved it. If anything, that thing is even better balanced than the Cayman and has less power. However, its total lack of creature comforts and overall "rawness" made me love it too.
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      04-07-2009, 10:06 AM   #24
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WICKED track...looks like a lot of fun. I couldn't help but notice....



That is A LOT of RED!
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      04-07-2009, 10:06 AM   #25
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In my opinion the making of a great car is the equivalent to fine dinning, it always leaves you wanting more.
I can enjoy fine dining but a good, simple, well cooked steak can be a lot of fun.

There are degrees to this and to each his own. I'm sure a few Corvette drivers feel M cars are too nimble.
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      04-07-2009, 10:10 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by slammedm3 View Post
WICKED track...looks like a lot of fun. I couldn't help but notice....



That is A LOT of RED!
Yeah I know, I was told it's a woman interior colour, suppose it saves on tampax.
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      04-07-2009, 10:19 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by footie View Post
Maybe the Cayman excels more on the more technical courses where speeds is less important but I keep hearing about power and your craving for it. Ever thought about politics?

Jokes aside it's remarkable how different the Cayman feels in comparison to even the basic 997 or even a Z4M Coupe which has similar power, it's the only one which feels completely planted to the surface and feels like it could quite easily cope with 100hp more and not unset the chassis balance.

Try the same thing with a Z4M and the word 'rollercoaster' springs to mind.

In my opinion the making of a great car is the equivalent to fine dinning, it always leaves you wanting more. In the case of the Cayman that wanting is more power, even though it's quicker than just about everything else that has up to 80hp more than it. Some people prefer that thrill of taming the beast, as is the case with the Carrera C2S and to a lesser extent the M3 but if you want a great track car that you can jump into a drive the socks off it than few match the Cayman S.
My ideal track car would be under 2500 lbs and be about 750bhpI grew up around big V8's and I have always been happy when I have had too much power,but unfortunatly that is not a reality these days.

Something like this 8000 rpm big block.

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      04-07-2009, 10:20 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico View Post
Is the Cayman a superior piece of engineering? Probably. Is it faster? Definitely for a novice driver, not so sure for an experienced driver. Is it more fun? Not for me.
On a technical course it will take a Z4M apart, piece by piece. Even on the Nurburgring which is a power course it will destroy the Z4 and probably the M3 as well.

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However, I have to say that I did drive a Lotus Elise at the track and loved it. If anything, that thing is even better balanced than the Cayman and has less power. However, its total lack of creature comforts and overall "rawness" made me love it too.
The Elise is special but then it's that very exclusive car that caters for a certain type of person that isn't remotely mainstream, that is probably why you liked it so much. The Elise is all about fun regardless of track time and it's playful even at moderate speeds which isn't usually the case in sportscars, such is it's choice of rubber and the way it's been setup.
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      04-07-2009, 11:01 AM   #29
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Quote:
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On a technical course it will take a Z4M apart, piece by piece. Even on the Nurburgring which is a power course it will destroy the Z4 and probably the M3 as well.
The 'Ring time for a Cayman S is 8:11. I couldn't find a time for an M Coupe but an M Roadster does it in 8:15. The coupe should be a bit faster.

"Destroy" seems too optimistic. On technical tracks where lap times are close to the 1 minute mark, the Cayman is 1 to 1.5 secs faster than a Z4M. The M3 definitely holds its own.

Who is having more fun though? That's pretty subjective and I'd rather have the M cars.
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      04-07-2009, 11:20 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico View Post
The 'Ring time for a Cayman S is 8:11. I couldn't find a time for an M Coupe but an M Roadster does it in 8:15. The coupe should be a bit faster.

"Destroy" seems too optimistic. On technical tracks where lap times are close to the 1 minute mark, the Cayman is 1 to 1.5 secs faster than a Z4M. The M3 definitely holds its own.

Who is having more fun though? That's pretty subjective and I'd rather have the M cars.
That time for the Cayman S is pre PDK and LSD, in other words it's Mk1 Cayman S and not Mk2. The talk is that the Mk2 with PDK, LSD and 19" alloys will possibly break the 8 minute barrier but if not then somewhere between that and the M3 is probable.

The Cayman S around Hockenheim is 1:13.9 compared to 1:16.7 for the Z4M Roadster and 1:17.2 for the Z4M Coupe, now that's a lot more than 1~1.5s.
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      04-07-2009, 12:51 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
That time for the Cayman S is pre PDK and LSD, in other words it's Mk1 Cayman S and not Mk2. The talk is that the Mk2 with PDK, LSD and 19" alloys will possibly break the 8 minute barrier but if not then somewhere between that and the M3 is probable.

The Cayman S around Hockenheim is 1:13.9 compared to 1:16.7 for the Z4M Roadster and 1:17.2 for the Z4M Coupe, now that's a lot more than 1~1.5s.
The PDK Cayman S recorded 8:06 on the Nordschleife according to fastestlap. Not sure how accurate is the time, but it would be mighty impressive being just 1 sec down to the E92 M3 on a 22.8km track with 100bhp less.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html
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      04-07-2009, 01:14 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by dechoong View Post
The PDK Cayman S recorded 8:06 on the Nordschleife according to fastestlap. Not sure how accurate is the time, but it would be mighty impressive being just 1 sec down to the E92 M3 on a 22.8km track with 100bhp less.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html
There is way too much emphasis on times from the Ring.We do do know what tires are on the car or what the weather conditions are at the time of the lap.I have been at tracks with sub 2 minute laps that can be 3 seconds a lap slower in the afternoon than 1st thing in the morning.By that formula it could be as much as 12 seconds per Ring lap!Somehow this needs to be quantified!
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      04-07-2009, 02:09 PM   #33
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There is way too much emphasis on times from the Ring.We do do know what tires are on the car or what the weather conditions are at the time of the lap.I have been at tracks with sub 2 minute laps that can be 3 seconds a lap slower in the afternoon than 1st thing in the morning.By that formula it could be as much as 12 seconds per Ring lap!Somehow this needs to be quantified!
Considering the E92 M3's 8:05 done by Sport Auto is on UHP Michelin, 8:06 by PDK Cayman S is impressive no matter how you look at it (it would be incredible if it's on normal tyres). No doubt Ring time is not definitive, but it is a good guide to what a car is capable of.
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      04-07-2009, 03:47 PM   #34
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I didn't realize that new Cayman had been figured on the ring though the time it did is around what was expected, but as Gearhead already said the ring isn't the be all that everyone believes.

Though the real test of the Cayman's metal is the times it does around tracks like Hockenheim and here is where the Cayman excels.
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      04-09-2009, 01:43 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I didn't realize that new Cayman had been figured on the ring though the time it did is around what was expected, but as Gearhead already said the ring isn't the be all that everyone believes.

Though the real test of the Cayman's metal is the times it does around tracks like Hockenheim and here is where the Cayman excels.
Hockenheim:

Mk2 Cayman S: 1:13.9
E92 M3: 1:14.3
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      04-09-2009, 03:27 PM   #36
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Great write-up Footie, much appreciated. I'd love to drive a Cayman S at some point in my life.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico View Post
I understand and agree with you regarding the Cayman's handling dynamics.

However, I DO like "excessive amounts of power". You can always modulate excessive with a sensitive right foot and reasonable reflexes. I like that about M cars. I'd probably take a Z4M over a Cayman S because of the car's character.

Is the Cayman a superior piece of engineering? Probably. Is it faster? Definitely for a novice driver, not so sure for an experienced driver. Is it more fun? Not for me.

However, I have to say that I did drive a Lotus Elise at the track and loved it. If anything, that thing is even better balanced than the Cayman and has less power. However, its total lack of creature comforts and overall "rawness" made me love it too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
On a technical course it will take a Z4M apart, piece by piece. Even on the Nurburgring which is a power course it will destroy the Z4 and probably the M3 as well.



The Elise is special but then it's that very exclusive car that caters for a certain type of person that isn't remotely mainstream, that is probably why you liked it so much. The Elise is all about fun regardless of track time and it's playful even at moderate speeds which isn't usually the case in sportscars, such is it's choice of rubber and the way it's been setup.
BMW-M-Mexico's point is not about the performance or the times, it's about the experience. Who cares if the Cayman is slightly faster if you're having more fun in the M Coupe? It all comes down to preference. I know I had a blast in the M Coupe at the M Driving School because of the ease in which I could throw the tail out and catch it.
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      04-09-2009, 05:50 PM   #37
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BMW-M-Mexico's point is not about the performance or the times, it's about the experience. Who cares if the Cayman is slightly faster if you're having more fun in the M Coupe? It all comes down to preference. I know I had a blast in the M Coupe at the M Driving School because of the ease in which I could throw the tail out and catch it.
Exactly.
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      04-09-2009, 05:57 PM   #38
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Crazy, a Cayman S taking down the M3
Not crazy at all. That is a technical track. In any case, 0.4s is small enough of a difference to make it a driver's race. A slightly better driver in the M3 will outperform the Cayman S.

All this magazine racing is just that. Out on the real track outside of professional racing driver skill difference matters a lot more than differences between most performance cars.

I have passed supposedly "faster cars" (911s, Caymans, a few Ferraris, etc) and have been passed by "slower" cars (Leon Cupra comes to mind).
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      04-09-2009, 06:16 PM   #39
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Great write-up Footie, much appreciated. I'd love to drive a Cayman S at some point in my life.
You should be able to go into any Porsche dealership and drive a Cayman S or 997.2 S without much hassle, just arrive in your M3. Porsche is great about test drives, don't hesitate, it's a great comparison experience. Turbos or GT3 require a bit more history to get the keys to.
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      04-09-2009, 07:05 PM   #40
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You should be able to go into any Porsche dealership and drive a Cayman S or 997.2 S without much hassle, just arrive in your M3. Porsche is great about test drives, don't hesitate, it's a great comparison experience. Turbos or GT3 require a bit more history to get the keys to.
Well, I drive a 335i, and my age would post an issue. They don't pay much attention to a 19 year-old with drool coming out of his mouth as he's browsing through the showroom.
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      04-09-2009, 07:17 PM   #41
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Well, I drive a 335i, and my age would post an issue. They don't pay much attention to a 19 year-old with drool coming out of his mouth as he's browsing through the showroom.
Seriously, don't let that stop you, 335i is plenty of car to arrive in. They're desperate to sell P cars, the salespeople looked bored silly these days and likely happy to entertain any remotely possible buyer. My dealership has a couple of launch PDK testers that are fair game to almost anyone...just don't ask to drive a GT2 or Carrera GT.
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      04-09-2009, 07:36 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
Hockenheim:

Mk2 Cayman S: 1:13.9
E92 M3: 1:14.3
Once again we have people posting comparison times with no other facts!

Where the cars lapping @ the same time? as we know a tracks traction can change during the the day due to sun,oildowns &
temperature.


What tires were on both cars?Did one have a semi-track tire or R compound.

Who was driving both cars?


Without knowing a few facts,it is only numbers not anything meaningful!
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      04-10-2009, 09:10 AM   #43
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Quote:
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Once again we have people posting comparison times with no other facts!

Where the cars lapping @ the same time? as we know a tracks traction can change during the the day due to sun,oildowns &
temperature.
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
What tires were on both cars?Did one have a semi-track tire or R compound.
Yes, the M3 had PSC+.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
Who was driving both cars?
It's not stated for the Cayman, but Horst von Saurma drove the M3.


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      04-27-2009, 02:28 AM   #44
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Quote:
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The handling on the Cayman S is beyond belief. The only time I can talk down about Cayman S handling compared to the M3 is long sweeper turns at 140mph+
LOL yes 140 sweeper turns are quite scary in the cay.
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