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View Poll Results: Coilovers: KW3 or TC Kline?
KW3 22 40.00%
TCK Smart Design 33 60.00%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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      03-25-2009, 02:34 PM   #1
///MML
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KW3 vs TC Kline smart design

Looking to buy coilover for e92 M3. I'm leaning toward TCK but have no experience with either TCK or KW. Anyone care to chime in with their experience and pros/cons of each. Both are priced ~$2,400. I don't have EDC to worry about.

Thanks
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      03-25-2009, 03:21 PM   #2
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Not sure if GC has anything yet, but I would look into them aswell.
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      03-25-2009, 05:36 PM   #3
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GC has nothing on the website.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      03-25-2009, 09:34 PM   #4
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We have only positive experiences with KW Variant 3 coilovers that we have installed & sold.
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      03-25-2009, 11:04 PM   #5
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If I'm not mistaken, KW still utilizes progressive springs vs. linear springs (as seen in TCK and GC). Progressive springs aren't necessarily a negative, however if you want to autox/HPDE/track your car, the overwhelming consensus that I've seen on numerous forums is to go with the linear spring setup due to how they behave at the limit. Progressives can be more forgiving on the street due to the soft nature of the initial travel, however this shouldn't be an issue if you have quality dampers.
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      03-26-2009, 12:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///MML View Post
Looking to buy coilover for e92 M3. I'm leaning toward TCK but have no experience with either TCK or KW. Anyone care to chime in with their experience and pros/cons of each. Both are priced ~$2,400. I don't have EDC to worry about.

Thanks
Go with the TC Kline ... I saw their car on the track a few weeks ago and it performed just amazing ... Talk to the owner TC and he knows his stuff ... If you are in CA, you can send your car to them or drive up there and for $1000 they will install them, align your car, and do conner weigh balancing ... Also , I believe they have Life time warranty and tech support ... for extra 200 or so you can get camber plates as well ...

I would be all over it , but i am waiting for their EDC version which should be out some time this year
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      03-26-2009, 03:52 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doba_s View Post
Go with the TC Kline ... I saw their car on the track a few weeks ago and it performed just amazing ... Talk to the owner TC and he knows his stuff ... If you are in CA, you can send your car to them or drive up there and for $1000 they will install them, align your car, and do conner weigh balancing ... Also , I believe they have Life time warranty and tech support ... for extra 200 or so you can get camber plates as well ...

I would be all over it , but i am waiting for their EDC version which should be out some time this year
REALLY?!
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      03-26-2009, 08:48 AM   #8
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Is this true? I was told waiting for a coilover that works with EDC is a waste of time because it's not gonna happen.
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      03-26-2009, 01:09 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by HREM3 View Post
Is this true? I was told waiting for a coilover that works with EDC is a waste of time because it's not gonna happen.
They are using some German company ( I forgot the name ) to develop EDC compatible kit ... The other option TC told me is to install existing kit and send a letter to BMW NA asking them to reprogram your ECU, so you wouldn't have error on the display. You would have to sign a few papers but it shouldn't void your warranty ...

The best way to call TCK and talk to TC directly ...
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      03-26-2009, 01:11 PM   #10
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I got quoted $800 for the install/alignment/corner balance. That's not bad at all.

Anyone know the difference between the two systems they have for our cars?
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      03-28-2009, 08:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
I got quoted $800 for the install/alignment/corner balance. That's not bad at all.

Anyone know the difference between the two systems they have for our cars?
The True Match kit is single adjustable, whereas the Smart Designs are double adjustable.
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      03-29-2009, 12:12 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///MML View Post
Looking to buy coilover for e92 M3. I'm leaning toward TCK but have no experience with either TCK or KW. Anyone care to chime in with their experience and pros/cons of each. Both are priced ~$2,400. I don't have EDC to worry about.

Thanks
You can buy the KW EDC electronic delete system for 328.00. The part number is 68510119 and listed on there web site as seprate part. Look like you get what ever you want.

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      03-30-2009, 12:11 AM   #13
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Orb what would you get ?
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      03-30-2009, 08:33 PM   #14
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We have the EDC delete module in stock
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      03-30-2009, 10:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doba_s View Post
Orb what would you get ?
It is a good question. Both are evenly matched but there are few things that might sway me.

First the TC Kline requires camber plates so add 550.00+ to the price. At this point we might as well consider the KW Clubsport against the TC Kline.

• Camber Plates: TC camber plates are fixed perches which are a really bad design and they will get noisy in weeks. The KW camber plates are a well design ball and thrust bearing camber plates from an engineering perspective and they are noise free which is not same harshness free. Most importantly, the KW’s have the correct stack height. The unique feature in KW plates is it allows for radial compliance at the thrust bearing which reduces binding.
• Valving: Both dampers are very capable but KW does get the win on their high speed compression damping…this system can be compared Moton or a like. The KW might feel a bit smother over the rough stuff for day to day driving but the Koni’s can be setup the same with some effort.
• Spring: Both systems can use mostly anyway spring rate you want. Just because you have KW doesn’t mean you’re stuck with what you get in any way as they have a very large tuning range. KW 61 mm race springs are bar none the top in the industry and comparable to Swift springs (I can’t say that about KW v3 springs however). The TC VVS springs are okay but not the best. The nice thing about TC setup you are not locked into any configuration.


This might be how I would take the systems:


KW Clubsport:

• Change the front spring rate to 400 lb/in

TC:

• KW or GC camber plates
• Swift spring and thrust sheets. Rates: F 400 lb/in R: 800 lb/in
• KW EDC suppression system if needed.


For me the camber plates are the deal breaker. If I was lazy I got for the KW and order the extra spring fro 160.00. The TC system requires more sourcing but would be worth it. Price is a wash since they are so close in the end.

I didn’t recommend any one system but maybe this helps.

Orb

Last edited by Orb; 03-31-2009 at 11:38 PM.
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      03-31-2009, 07:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orb View Post
Camber Plates: TC camber plates are fixed perches which are a really bad design and they will get noisy in weeks.
Source? I had TCKs on my e46 M3 and know at least a dozen others with the same D/A kits with zero issue. One of my close friends has had his on his car for 50k miles without so much as a peep from the camber plates.
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      03-31-2009, 09:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Source? I had TCKs on my e46 M3 and know at least a dozen others with the same D/A kits with zero issue. One of my close friends has had his on his car for 50k miles without so much as a peep from the camber plates.
The camber plates TC sells are just another copy of someone else from years gone by so donít take it that Iím slamming TC. The plates are just a poor design for longevity as they have no thrust bearing for the spring perch which is the bare minimum you need considering the load paths. I am calling it the way it is which means there was no engineering though in this design from eons ago which is older than TC himself. The bearing will wear out fast regardless of bearing type because a spherical bearing is not design for this load case and this is a fact and not open for debate. Worst of all, there is no seal protection on almost all these type plates so you will cause accelerated PTFE resin disbursement and contamination issue will kill the bearings in short order. This is the main reason why almost all racing link only last 5-10% of their potential life.

If you look at the KW camber plates they address every single important issue. The have seals, spherical bearing, thrust bearing and had forethought of allowing the spring preach to float to reduce bending load on the shaft which in turns reduces a considerable amount of friction in strut design. Its all good and then some.

If the plates work for you then buy them but it will not change a well know documented issue with this design. I would also question what you call acceptable NVH but this is subject in its own right.

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      03-31-2009, 10:22 PM   #18
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This is correct. The camber plates should have a separate load path for the spring perch. Ground Control also has a very good design, but I'm not sure if it's applicable to the e9x M3. Call them and ask.

Ground Control strut mount

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      04-01-2009, 01:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orb View Post
The camber plates TC sells are just another copy of someone else from years gone by so donít take it that Iím slamming TC. The plates are just a poor design for longevity as they have no thrust bearing for the spring perch which is the bare minimum you need considering the load paths. I am calling it the way it is which means there was no engineering though in this design from eons ago which is older than TC himself. The bearing will wear out fast regardless of bearing type because a spherical bearing is not design for this load case and this is a fact and not open for debate. Worst of all, there is no seal protection on almost all these type plates so you will cause accelerated PTFE resin disbursement and contamination issue will kill the bearings in short order. This is the main reason why almost all racing link only last 5-10% of their potential life.

If you look at the KW camber plates they address every single important issue. The have seals, spherical bearing, thrust bearing and had forethought of allowing the spring preach to float to reduce bending load on the shaft which in turns reduces a considerable amount of friction in strut design. Its all good and then some.

If the plates work for you then buy them but it will not change a well know documented issue with this design. I would also question what you call acceptable NVH but this is subject in its own right.

Orb
Wow, great information! Sounds to me like this is a wee bit more serious than a bit of noise... Camber plates aside, where does your vote rest?
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      04-01-2009, 08:34 PM   #20
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I think the best bet would to wait and get vorshlag plates and ast
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      04-02-2009, 12:56 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Wow, great information! Sounds to me like this is a wee bit more serious than a bit of noise... Camber plates aside, where does your vote rest?
I have KW Clubsport on my car but this was a special configuration from KW so they went the extra mile. For others to pick it is what meets your goals. I would go with KW for all day to day drive and track but for frequent track guys TC fits the bill. The TC can be revalved so it a real big plus.

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      04-02-2009, 10:14 AM   #22
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So what's the main difference between the KW ClubSports and V3?
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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