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      03-26-2009, 05:56 PM   #23
Nixon
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Originally Posted by bolinp78 View Post
I am in the oil and gas industry. I agree with you here; The problem is that Obama is seeking to destroy the oil and gas industry altogether, If you haven't noticed his recently proposed bills affecting the business. If these get passed with any substance, the industry will go down. He wants to immediately shove out the industry and all the jobs that go with it to make way for his green energy and socialist agenda. If we do not do something, he WILL sink the oil and gas industry. Then, while he is pushing his green agenda "that takes time", the oil and gas industry is on it's back. Sounds like a great idea. Your post is good, but the way in which it is carried out is key. At this moment, everyone in my industry is scared shitless.
Oil companies are being asked to diversify and GROW into providing alternative energy along with their traditional energy products.

Most of the oil companies get it. Just watch the ads that are on TV now, especially BP. They've gone so far as to rebrand "British Petroleum" to be "Beyond Petroleum".

Oil companies that make the transition to energy companies will grow instead of being destroyed.

The sky isn't falling. The sky is producing energy.
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      03-26-2009, 06:18 PM   #24
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Hey, I don't mind being in bold. You can have the non bold.

You wrote:
"How much oil would have to be added to each gallon of gas to make a difference in the amount of oil we have to import? We currently import roughly 60% of our oil, so we would have to produce as much corn alcohol as we are currently producing oil (this would take decades to do)."

The key phrase "(this would take decades to do)". Guess what - it's already been decades since Jimmy Carter's Department of Energy was formed. No one wanted gas prices to go up, so now we are in a pickle.

I am a capitalist and I would not ask the oil companies to drop their profit. We would still pay world market price and even above. Remember that the main reason world market sugar is so much lower than ours is because the U.S. doesn't buy on the world market. I understand higher cost at the pump and this means drilling more, alcohol additions, and more efficient cars. I am a mechanical engineer that enjoys building my own cars and I fully understand that alcohol hurts fuel efficiency. I don't know the optimum amount of alcohol to blend, but that question needs to be answered and can be. And yes, it will cost us more at the pump but the boat loads of money stops going to the middle east (and elsewhere). This helps balance of trade.

The integrated circuit technology was the "near miracle" invention that changed the electronic world. I trained as a diesel /multifuel mechanic in the army. I've seen engines that could run on chicken sh**. In college I studied jet engines, wankel, two cycle, four cycle and tons of other power sources. I sincerely believe that there is not a mechanical equivalent to the integrated circuit. I also sincerely hope I'm wrong.


You also wrote:
"While i applaud your can do attitude, i view the process to get us off foreign oil as just that, a process. Its a big ship and will take a while to turn around. But i believe that the process must begin now. This is something i think we can both agree on."

What are we auguring about? That is exactly what I'm saying. I never suggested this is an overnight process to achieve.

I'm not going to answer for a day or two - the dang sky is filling up my back yard and I need to shovel it up.


My ever-so-humble-but-accurate opinion is my own.
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      03-27-2009, 01:06 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by lyndon_h View Post
Specifically what proposals are about to bring the oil and gas business to its knees? It wont happen, it CANT happen. Not within the next 20 years at least. We need you fuckers too much
http://www.ogj.com/display_article/3...-Obama-budget/

The elimination of IDC expensing and the depletion allowance alone are enough to cripple the industry greatly. There is NO way that smaller companies will be able to survive if those measures are enacted.

And yes, it CAN happen. It is EXACTLY what Obama wants, and what he has said that he wants. He wants to eliminate our need for oil and gas, and he wants to do it now. The windfall tax money will then go to his green programs and welfare programs. The funneling to green programs makes sense in theory, but what is going to happen while the industry is suffering infinitely more than it is now? Drilling will all but cease, people will lose their jobs. I guarantee you that will happen if these proposals are put into place.
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      03-27-2009, 01:13 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
Oil companies are being asked to diversify and GROW into providing alternative energy along with their traditional energy products.

Most of the oil companies get it. Just watch the ads that are on TV now, especially BP. They've gone so far as to rebrand "British Petroleum" to be "Beyond Petroleum".

Oil companies that make the transition to energy companies will grow instead of being destroyed.

The sky isn't falling. The sky is producing energy.
Not to put words into your mouth, but you think that because certain select large cap, public companies seem to "get it", that makes it OK, and that means that the industry is moving in that direction as a whole? That seems to be what you are saying.

What about smaller companies that do not have expansive departments to research these green alternatives? Do you realize the amount of hydrocarbons that those companies produce as a whole?

If those proposals are enacted, companies will not even have enough capital to continue those programs because of the enormous chunk that the new tax rules will snatch from them.

America needs to wake up and realize that this is the direction that we are heading. We as an industry are doing EVERYTHING we can to keep these bills from being passed.
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      03-27-2009, 03:24 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by bolinp78 View Post
Not to put words into your mouth, but you think that because certain select large cap, public companies seem to "get it", that makes it OK, and that means that the industry is moving in that direction as a whole? That seems to be what you are saying.

What about smaller companies that do not have expansive departments to research these green alternatives? Do you realize the amount of hydrocarbons that those companies produce as a whole?

If those proposals are enacted, companies will not even have enough capital to continue those programs because of the enormous chunk that the new tax rules will snatch from them.

America needs to wake up and realize that this is the direction that we are heading. We as an industry are doing EVERYTHING we can to keep these bills from being passed.
I'm saying that there aren't a bunch of wagon wheel builders anymore.

I'm saying that there aren't a bunch of steam locomotive builders anymore.

I'm saying that there aren't a bunch of whale-oil providers for home lighting anymore.

And as an economy we've managed to get by just fine without them after they were gone. We didn't sacrifice progress because a bunch of whiny-ass wheel builders cried like a bunch of bitches about not making wagon wheels anymore, and demanded that we kept using horse-and-wagons so that they wouldn't have to evolve their businesses.

And as a small sub-contractor, it really isn't up to you to do the big-dollar research. Just like you never did the big dollar research that BP, and Mobil, etc did to get oil platforms and advanced drilling where they are right now either. You get hired to do your job, whether that is drilling for oil or whether that is drilling for geothermal. They do the heavy research, you provide the service. Whether that is building pipelines, or building wind generators.

If you can't evolve, don't expect the whole world to halt progress just to hold your fucking hand like a whiny 2-year old.

Of course the entire oil industry is fighting the legislation. Your profits you have made off of the backs of US drivers have been ENORMOUS, so of course you are going to fight to keep making record profits.

Please Fight.

We'll Fight Back.

We aren't going to be held hostage by a bunch of wagon wheel makers who want to throw their financial weight around in order to halt progress. You can change and evolve your business to serve the needs of the market, or you can fail. It's really your choice, because the opportunities for honest profits in the post-oil US energy generation market will be enormous.

Because here are the facts:

1) The nations that have freed themselves the most from dependence upon oil will come out on top the next time there is another oil crunch. And there WILL be more oil crunches.

2) Every dollar that we spend on foreign oil sells off another little piece of the US to Arabic nations, helping fund THEIR agenda at OUR expense.

Last edited by Nixon; 03-27-2009 at 03:51 PM.
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      03-29-2009, 07:16 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
If you can't evolve, don't expect the whole world to halt progress just to hold your fucking hand like a whiny 2-year old.

Of course the entire oil industry is fighting the legislation. Your profits you have made off of the backs of US drivers have been ENORMOUS, so of course you are going to fight to keep making record profits.

Please Fight.

We'll Fight Back.
What a good little fascisti you are.

Do you really believe there are no more wagon wheel or steam locomotive builders because politicians decided to target those industries and put them out of business?

The market found a more economically efficient alternative and those industries withered as a result.

What is the economically more efficient alternative to oil and natural gas? There is none and you know it. That is why you are determined to subsidize the alternatives and deny access to oil resources. You are determined to insert your political preference into the marketplace.


Quote:
1) The nations that have freed themselves the most from dependence upon oil will come out on top the next time there is another oil crunch. And there WILL be more oil crunches.
Assuming they have not bankrupted themselves by subsidizing inefficient technologies in the interim

Quote:
2) Every dollar that we spend on foreign oil sells off another little piece of the US to Arabic nations, helping fund THEIR agenda at OUR expense.
The vast majority of US oil imports come from Canada and Mexico.
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      03-29-2009, 10:18 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
What a good little fascisti you are.

Do you really believe there are no more wagon wheel or steam locomotive builders because politicians decided to target those industries and put them out of business?

The market found a more economically efficient alternative and those industries withered as a result.

What is the economically more efficient alternative to oil and natural gas? There is none and you know it. That is why you are determined to subsidize the alternatives and deny access to oil resources. You are determined to insert your political preference into the marketplace.




Assuming they have not bankrupted themselves by subsidizing inefficient technologies in the interim



The vast majority of US oil imports come from Canada and Mexico.
What a little oil company puppet you are.

Do you even know what is being talked about here?

This is all an argument about whether oil companies should receive continuing bailouts every year in the form of billions of dollars in handouts from the US gov't.

This is over whether oil companies should take any personal responsibility for the damages they cause, or whether they should have the Gov't pay for their superfund cleanup sites for them.

So when you side with the oil companies on this issue, what you are really doing is backing socialist support of the oil companies. (using the terminology that the right wing loves these days).

As far as gov't support for the car industry, who the hell do you think built all the roads? And paved them? And built interstates? Do you think the car companies did that? Cars have received so much subsidy from the gov't that it isn't even funny.

And the US gov't did that because it was what was in the best interests of the nation. Just like supporting a transition away from a reliance on oil is in the best interests of the nation too.
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      03-31-2009, 01:49 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
This is all an argument about whether oil companies should receive continuing bailouts every year in the form of billions of dollars in handouts from the US gov't.
Would that be the oil companies that paid $17 billion in income taxes in just the first quarter of last year? The oil companies that generally pay an effective income tax rate of 45+%? The oil companies that make less money on every gallon of gasoline sold than does government?

What handouts are you referring to?

Quote:
This is over whether oil companies should take any personal responsibility for the damages they cause, or whether they should have the Gov't pay for their superfund cleanup sites for them.
Are you aware that the Superfund was created with taxes imposed by the federal government on major oil and chemical companies? That the vast majority of Superfund cleanup is funded by the responsible parties and the rest by that fund?

Quote:
As far as gov't support for the car industry, who the hell do you think built all the roads? And paved them? And built interstates? Do you think the car companies did that? Cars have received so much subsidy from the gov't that it isn't even funny.
Building a road is not a subsidy for the car industry but a response to a public demand. People bought cars and then decided to allocate taxpayer money or float bonds in order to effectively utilize the cars they bought. The roads were not built in the hope that people would then buy cars.

Quote:
And the US gov't did that because it was what was in the best interests of the nation. Just like supporting a transition away from a reliance on oil is in the best interests of the nation too.
Most (95+%) of the paved roads in this country were built by local and state governments not the federal government.

You still have not identified this alternative we are to transition toward yet have you?
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      04-01-2009, 01:21 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
I'm saying that there aren't a bunch of wagon wheel builders anymore.

I'm saying that there aren't a bunch of steam locomotive builders anymore.

I'm saying that there aren't a bunch of whale-oil providers for home lighting anymore.

And as an economy we've managed to get by just fine without them after they were gone. We didn't sacrifice progress because a bunch of whiny-ass wheel builders cried like a bunch of bitches about not making wagon wheels anymore, and demanded that we kept using horse-and-wagons so that they wouldn't have to evolve their businesses.

And as a small sub-contractor, it really isn't up to you to do the big-dollar research. Just like you never did the big dollar research that BP, and Mobil, etc did to get oil platforms and advanced drilling where they are right now either. You get hired to do your job, whether that is drilling for oil or whether that is drilling for geothermal. They do the heavy research, you provide the service. Whether that is building pipelines, or building wind generators.

If you can't evolve, don't expect the whole world to halt progress just to hold your fucking hand like a whiny 2-year old.

Of course the entire oil industry is fighting the legislation. Your profits you have made off of the backs of US drivers have been ENORMOUS, so of course you are going to fight to keep making record profits.

Please Fight.

We'll Fight Back.

We aren't going to be held hostage by a bunch of wagon wheel makers who want to throw their financial weight around in order to halt progress. You can change and evolve your business to serve the needs of the market, or you can fail. It's really your choice, because the opportunities for honest profits in the post-oil US energy generation market will be enormous.

Because here are the facts:

1) The nations that have freed themselves the most from dependence upon oil will come out on top the next time there is another oil crunch. And there WILL be more oil crunches.

2) Every dollar that we spend on foreign oil sells off another little piece of the US to Arabic nations, helping fund THEIR agenda at OUR expense.
How do you know what I do in the industry? A small sub-contractor? I wasn't talking about tiny service companies that do small contract work. I am talking about "large" E&P companies (worth 100+ million) that explore for and produce hydrocarbons. You sound very ignorant when you assume that because I said "small" company, I meant a small service contractor. You obviously are not aware of the sheer scope of the "small" E&P companies and their importance to the industry.

Do you REALLY think that choking the oil and gas industry in the U.S. is going to ween us off foreign oil?? How naive can you possibly be........
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      04-01-2009, 01:26 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
What a little oil company puppet you are.

Do you even know what is being talked about here?

This is all an argument about whether oil companies should receive continuing bailouts every year in the form of billions of dollars in handouts from the US gov't.
I have been involved in the industry practically my whole life, as has my family, and when you put it into those terms, I immediately cringe.

Do you know WHY the industry and it's investors has received those "bailouts"? First of all, they are not "bailouts". If you weren't so ignorant, you might call them "handouts", because that word more accurately describes what they are. They are more commonly referred to as "incentives" by people that know what they are talking about. But you don't even have any idea why they are implemented in the tax code.

Because it is one of the most risky businesses in the world, and in order to attract widespread investment, tax measures were put into place. Otherwise, nothing would ever get drilled because of the massive amount of risk and capital involved. And I know that you have very little idea just how much risk is involved in every facet of the industry.

I try not to belittle anyone, but you really do sound like an idiot when you speak about this topic. I will not say that about any other topic because I do not consider myself an expert. But here, you are just wrong.

And you could never convince me or anyone else that has energy industry smarts otherwise.
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      04-01-2009, 01:33 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Nixon View Post

And the US gov't did that because it was what was in the best interests of the nation. Just like supporting a transition away from a reliance on oil is in the best interests of the nation too.


You really just do not get it.

You use the word "transition", and it couldn't be farther from the direction that Obama wants to take the industry. Based on his proposals, and what he has said, he wants to force the energy industry out as soon as possible to make way for his green initiatives and his welfare programs. That is exactly where the tax dollars are going.

If these proposals get passed, it will be ANYTHING BUT a transition. It will be a jolt that will send many companies reeling out of business and the hydrocarbon price deck out of control.

What do you think is going to happen in the short term when oil and gas companies can no longer have R&D departments, marketing departments, and have to cut their drilling budgets in half? Where will the balance of that shortage come from? All the while we are trying to make "green" an efficient alternative. We are NOT THERE YET.

You really need to be woken up to reality.
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