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      03-19-2009, 09:47 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by KINGLEH View Post
first off congrats to my buddy Dirk Werner for grabbing GT2 pole.....


we will see how the M does.... This is always a good start for a new car because whatever will break on the car... WILL break.. so it shows its flaws sooner... obviously you wont finish well in the race tho....


i didn't see where the 92 car qualy'd



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      03-19-2009, 10:14 PM   #24
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      03-19-2009, 10:14 PM   #25
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I think Rahal/BMW Racing doesnt have what it takes to beat the likes of Flying Lizard or Corvette Racing. I predict the M3 is going to be running in the back of the pack like the Robertson Racing aston's last year.
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      03-19-2009, 11:06 PM   #26
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I think Rahal/BMW Racing doesnt have what it takes to beat the likes of Flying Lizard or Corvette Racing. I predict the M3 is going to be running in the back of the pack like the Robertson Racing aston's last year.
I will agree. Porsche will run away with the GT2 title. But it's about seeing BMW back in the mix.
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      03-19-2009, 11:57 PM   #27
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Wow, great pic. Thanks!

This sure is different. They are facilitating the air flow for the radiator through those large ducts.

Like you say, it seems like the two lines going to the intake plenum are it for the intake, which means they have eliminated the stock intake element in the bumper. I bet the two small openings down low to the sides in the ALMS bumper are for brake cooling then.

And, I can't see any evidence of a third intake path such as the one on the stock hood. The function of that opening has been an item of discussion, and I've been meaning to take some airflow measurements there for the longest time...

Attachment 250069
I'm fairly ignorant of the technicals, but it seems to me to try to compare changes they might have made to this car compared to our cars is kind of pointless. It's not like they started with a showroom car and then made changes to it. Take the shell off and it's a race car built from the ground up. Just out of curiosity, I would like to see a list of parts (if any) that are on this car that are common with a stock M3. My (ignorant) guess is; the engine block? and nothing else. Even if the engine block is common, is it bored? In any case, I'll be watching and rooting for them, just like all the NASCAR Bubba's arguing the merits of Chevy vs. Ford vs. Dodge as if those cars have anything to do with whatever pickup truck they're driving.
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      03-20-2009, 12:20 AM   #28
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Complete Qualifying Results:
wow... i just noticed the top 5 overall times....


jeeeeeeez
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      03-20-2009, 12:28 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legendary View Post
I think Rahal/BMW Racing doesnt have what it takes to beat the likes of Flying Lizard or Corvette Racing. I predict the M3 is going to be running in the back of the pack like the Robertson Racing aston's last year.
assuming the money keeps flowing from BMW to Rahal... you will be wrong.... of course money flowing IN anything right now is a big IF.....

Rahal has the skills as a team to develop a winning car.. BMW has always been good at playing the rules to be competitive...

Corvette hasn't had to really race anyone in years.. which means they didnt push themselves hard enough lately... because they didnt have too.... if you watched the show tonight.. you would heard one of their main guys say it will be harder for them.. to race gt2.....


ALMS is an American based series.. so the vette will always have support everywhere you look....

we will see after June...




ps.. to compare Rahal to Robertson is laughable..
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      03-20-2009, 12:55 AM   #30
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This is going to be f-n sweet on Saturday watching Speed HD. I'll get my beer ready.
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      03-20-2009, 01:34 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticBlue View Post
I'm fairly ignorant of the technicals, but it seems to me to try to compare changes they might have made to this car compared to our cars is kind of pointless. It's not like they started with a showroom car and then made changes to it. Take the shell off and it's a race car built from the ground up. Just out of curiosity, I would like to see a list of parts (if any) that are on this car that are common with a stock M3. My (ignorant) guess is; the engine block? and nothing else. Even if the engine block is common, is it bored? In any case, I'll be watching and rooting for them, just like all the NASCAR Bubba's arguing the merits of Chevy vs. Ford vs. Dodge as if those cars have anything to do with whatever pickup truck they're driving.
The engine bore and stroke are the same. There's quite a bit of info available online. A good source is https://www.press.bmwgroup.com

Technical Specifications BMW M3 Race Version.
Weight: 2,535 lbs./1150 kg

Tank capacity: 29 gallons/110 Liters

Chassis/body: Unitary construction steel body with welded safety cell made of extremely rigid precision steel tubing; safety fuel tank in CRP sandwich tray; pneumatic four-stamp jack system

Aerodynamics: Front fenders, rear apron, hood, roof, trunk lid, rear wing, front wings, and flared rear wheel arches in CRP

Transmission: Carbon fiber clutch with hydraulic central slave cylinder;
6-speed sequential racing transmission with straight-cut, unsynchronized gears;
additional oil/air cooler; quick shift system with ignition cut-out controlled by shifting force; mechanical limited slip differential with additional oil/air cooler

Front axle: Based on production version, with increased wheel caster angle, enlarged track width and enhanced wheel camber; five-way adjustable shock absorbers; tubular stabilizer bar

Rear axle: Based on production version, with enlarged track width and enhanced wheel camber; five-way adjustable shock absorbers, tubular stabilizer bar

Front brake system: Six-piston aluminum brake calipers, inner-vented grey-cast iron brake disks 15.0 in./380mm in diameter

Rear brake system: Four-piston aluminum brake calipers, grey-cast iron brake disk, 13.1 in./332mm in diameter

Steering: Rack and pinion steering with electro-hydraulic power

Wheels: Aluminum wheels, 18 inches


BMW P65 Engine.

Type: Eight cylinder, V-configuration

Capacity: 3999 cc

Bore x stroke: 92 x 75.2 mm/3.62 x 2.96 in.

Max. output: approx. 485 bhp

Max. torque: approx. 368 lb-ft/500 Nm

Cylinder block: Aluminum cylinder block construction with bed plate lower section

Crankshaft: Steel crankshaft

Pistons: Forged skirt pistons

Conrods: High-performance steel

Cylinder head: Aluminum DOHC (Double Over Head
Camshaft); four valves per cylinder

Valve train: Four overhead chain-driven camshafts, valve actuation via rocker arms

Intake system: Eight throttle valves, made of CRP with load-charge optimized ram tubes

Exhaust system: Headers, mufflers

Fuel system: Single cylinder multi-point injection

Lubrication: Dry sump lubrication

Cooling: Water/air cooler and oil/water heat exchanger


Electrics/Electronics.

Engine management: BMW Motorsport ECU 408 with two high-performance micro-processors; Individual cylinder injection and ignition;
BMW Motorsport Lambda Controller
Pit speed limiter, Quick Shift function;
Engine data memory system

Energy management: Electric energy management and monitoring with BMW Motorsport POWER400 control unit,
networking of all sensors and actuators through bus system

Wiring harness: Weight optimized

Ignition coil: Eight high-performance pencil coils with integrated ignition drivers

Spark plugs: High-performance spark plugs

Cockpit: Free programmable LCD Display with integrated shift indicators

Steering wheel: Quick release multi-function steering wheel w/ integrated display unit
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      03-20-2009, 01:53 AM   #32
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nice pics !
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      03-20-2009, 05:43 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticBlue View Post
I'm fairly ignorant of the technicals, but it seems to me to try to compare changes they might have made to this car compared to our cars is kind of pointless.
Right, but I think lucid is just trying to understand the race car and how it is built. He is well aware it is a completely different car. It doesn't mean, though, that you could not take some ideas from the race car to try and build up a factory M3 into a better track car. Of course, you could take ideas from any race car or other track car to do that too, sure.

Quote:
Just out of curiosity, I would like to see a list of parts (if any) that are on this car that are common with a stock M3. My (ignorant) guess is; the engine block? and nothing else.
My thoughts in the past on this were the block and the body shell. From the info that rldzhao (very nicely) posted:

"Chassis/body: Unitary construction steel body..."

It isn't specific, but I think they do indeed start with a 3 series body-in-white just like a factory M3 does. But they no doubt make tons of modifications to it before they start bolting and welding the rest of the parts on.

I agree it would be cool to have a list of all parts, if indeed more are shared with the production car. Unfortunately I don't think we'll ever see such a list. Anything shared beyond the body and block is sure to very minor though.

Quote:
In any case, I'll be watching and rooting for them, just like all the NASCAR Bubba's arguing the merits of Chevy vs. Ford vs. Dodge as if those cars have anything to do with whatever pickup truck they're driving.
As different as the M3 GT2 is from the production car, NASCAR is another whole level of "homolongation" IMHO. I put that in quotes because you can't even really call it that. It shares a name and nothing else, not even production car technology from this century. And the cars and motors from each manufacturer are basically all the same. It might as well be called a one-make/model series like Indy car.
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      03-20-2009, 07:30 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
As different as the M3 GT2 is from the production car, NASCAR is another whole level of "homolongation" IMHO. I put that in quotes because you can't even really call it that. It shares a name and nothing else, not even production car technology from this century. And the cars and motors from each manufacturer are basically all the same. It might as well be called a one-make/model series like Indy car.
Absolutely agree... my comparing the GT2 cars and how they relate to production cars vs. NASCAR and how they relate to production cars had more to do with the psychological aspect of us fanboys and how we root for a given manufacturer based on what kind of car we drive and how silly it is, (I include myself) using NASCAR as an example because, for reasons you just articulated, NASCAR is the most extreme example of how silly it is. But I do agree that there really is a lot more justification to the connection of these GT2 cars to production cars, big picture and long term, due to the involvement of the actual manufacturers in the development of these cars and the trickle down effect of some of the technology used today on the track ending up in production models in the future.
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      03-20-2009, 08:30 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticBlue View Post
I'm fairly ignorant of the technicals, but it seems to me to try to compare changes they might have made to this car compared to our cars is kind of pointless. It's not like they started with a showroom car and then made changes to it. Take the shell off and it's a race car built from the ground up. Just out of curiosity, I would like to see a list of parts (if any) that are on this car that are common with a stock M3. My (ignorant) guess is; the engine block? and nothing else. Even if the engine block is common, is it bored? In any case, I'll be watching and rooting for them, just like all the NASCAR Bubba's arguing the merits of Chevy vs. Ford vs. Dodge as if those cars have anything to do with whatever pickup truck they're driving.
Well, the GT2 class is a modified production car class. It is true that the engine is developed for racing, but they do need to start out with the production engine. The general location of the engine cannot be changed, but it can be moved down or back as long as it doesn't result in chassis or cockpit modifications. Cylinder block, heads, valve angles, and the number and location of cams must not change, but heads can be machined, etc. Basically, the basic engine geometry is maintained. Also, bodywork modifications are limited, meaning the car preserves its external geometry. Intakes cannot stick out of the bodywork unless the original car has that geometry. Snorkel type intakes are not allowed. I believe those constraints say a lot about how one can possibly get air into the engine, and what the optimal paths might be, especially when positioning the front facing intakes. You are probably right that the issue of the 3rd intake on the hood is not all that meaningful in this case though. Also, the regulations limit the airbox volume to 50 liters. I wonder how large the ALMS and the stock M3 airboxes are.
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      03-20-2009, 08:36 AM   #36
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Cylinder block, heads, valve angles, and the number and location of cams must not change, but heads can be machined, etc.
Interesting info lucid. I didn't know they had to use the factory head castings with valve angle (and presumably location) unchanged. I guess we can add the heads to the list of parts shared with the factory car too then. Of course, like you said, they modify them.

I wonder if the "axles" must too come from the factory car? The info above states "based on production" but that could be just referring to the basic design and not necessarily actual parts.
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      03-20-2009, 08:41 AM   #37
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I wonder if the "axles" must too come from the factory car? The info above states "based on production" but that could be just referring to the basic design and not necessarily actual parts.
The info I provided above are from the 24 Hour Le Mans website. My understanding is that ALMS uses the same regulations.

You can check them out here:

http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/re...o_gb_2009.html
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      03-20-2009, 09:51 AM   #38
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I'll be driving up to Sebring once I get off work tonight. I'll make sure to get some video of the M3 to share with you guys.
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      03-20-2009, 12:49 PM   #39
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beat the vette!!!


The Corvette hands down dominates the ALMS GT1 class and 2009 is the first year they are running in the GT2 class. As much as I have tons of hope for the M3, I'm freakin out about the vette dominating GT2 as well.


Go, M3, Go!
Actually, Corvette is racing a limited GT1 schedule for 2009 and will switch to GT2 in 2010. GT1 is being eliminated after this year.
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      03-20-2009, 12:58 PM   #40
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Actually, Corvette is racing a limited GT1 schedule for 2009 and will switch to GT2 in 2010. GT1 is being eliminated after this year.
You're saying the vette is not running in 2009 GT2?
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      03-20-2009, 01:01 PM   #41
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yea.... they will run the 2nd half of the freekin season.. like we said a bunch already....
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