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      03-15-2009, 08:35 PM   #1
M3V8Driver
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What are people doing about thei brakes for the track?

I have an '08 M3 coupe and was wondering what others are doing for their brakes to do track duty? I was thinking of a set of Hawk Blues and flushing the fluid with ATE Super Blue/Gold.
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      03-15-2009, 08:50 PM   #2
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Hawk HT-10s and SRF worked well. Stops better than my old E46 with Brembo GTs. Looking forward to PFC01s, should be out any day now.
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      03-15-2009, 09:23 PM   #3
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... Looking forward to PFC01s, should be out any day now.
Really?!? Glad I waited.
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      03-15-2009, 10:08 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3V8Driver View Post
I have an '08 M3 coupe and was wondering what others are doing for their brakes to do track duty? I was thinking of a set of Hawk Blues and flushing the fluid with ATE Super Blue/Gold.
I bought the pagid RS19s from Turner and flushed with gold (no need to color brake stuff blue). PF01/06s weren't around yet, parts guys keep saying within a month...

It rained the entire weekend at VIR, so the pagids weren't really tested like they would be on a 95 degree summer day, but I kept them on another week, and like their grip/feel.
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      03-15-2009, 10:08 PM   #5
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The Hawk HT10s are, I believe, more aggressive than the Blues. Not sure about the PFC01s as I don't have a lot of experience with them. I ran PFCs on a 1993 Mazda RX-7 once and I remember seeing the sparks fly by my window while driving at night. I think the compound was either 83 or 93. The rotors didn't last 1200 miles. I'm mainly conerned about brake fade and like to run something that is entirely predictable... no surprises like with Hawk HPS(treet) (one lap you have brakes, the next you don't). HP+ aren't much better and Blacks are OK, but for the amount of dust they produce, might as well use the Blues. I could run 10+ races on a set of Blues in a Spec Miata, and they'd perform consistently right down until the metal backing
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      03-15-2009, 10:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
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I bought the pagid RS19s from Turner and flushed with gold (no need to color brake stuff blue).
The point of offernig the same fluid in two colors is so when you flush the system, you know when you've reached the new fluid at the bleeder. Die-hards bleed out all the fluid, but I usually just bleed out a few ounces at each corner, which is why I've used RBF600, but thinking of switching just due to price and availability (RBF600 or 610 is hard tofind in Pittsburgh, but everybody and their mother has the ATE stuff). Thanks.
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      03-16-2009, 01:19 AM   #7
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so far stock and they work pretty well - just wont last past 8000 miles.
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      03-16-2009, 04:26 AM   #8
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I will get the sports pads from BMW next month. I'll let you know how that works out.
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      03-16-2009, 05:17 AM   #9
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I would be worried about the dealer not liking the blue fluid and stick with the Type 200 (gold).
There are three brake pad wear sensors - two in front and one in back. You don't want to use those with your track pads. The front ones can be wrapped around the strut and fastened with tape or zip tie. The back can be fastened to the metal end of the brake hose where it enters the caliper.
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      03-16-2009, 03:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car62 View Post
I would be worried about the dealer not liking the blue fluid and stick with the Type 200 (gold).
There are three brake pad wear sensors - two in front and one in back. You don't want to use those with your track pads. The front ones can be wrapped around the strut and fastened with tape or zip tie. The back can be fastened to the metal end of the brake hose where it enters the caliper.

x2

on my e46 M3 the dealer refused to flush brake fluid and noted the car had racing fluid on the invoice.
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      03-16-2009, 07:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayemthree View Post
x2

on my e46 M3 the dealer refused to flush brake fluid and noted the car had racing fluid on the invoice.
+1 Stay away from blue for this exact reason.


HT10s are more aggressive (temp and friction wise) than Blues, but still a fairly old compound that is temperamental when breaking in. Replaced by the DTC series, which are a much better pad IMHO.

PFC01s are renowned for being one of the better, if not the best, high temp/friction pads for high-mass cars on a road racing course. Armed with these pads and Motul 600 or SRF, I doubt one would be motivated to get a BBK.
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      03-16-2009, 07:49 PM   #12
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Speaking of brake fluid. Anyone know how many bottles of Castrol SRF needed for a complete flush?

I'd be content with Motul but I'm going with the pricey SRF stuff this time knowing how slightly more inconvenient it is to bleed brakes on the M3 since the reservoir is not as accessible as in most other cars (wtf does BMW choose to hide it?) so I like the idea of flushing it once and being good to go for the whole season.

I'll be using Pagid RS19 with stock brake system and lines, although I do plan on trying out PFC01 after the Pagids are toast assuming a set will be available for the stock brakes. Either setup should give my 275x4 NT-01's a nice workout.
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      03-16-2009, 08:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masmole View Post
Speaking of brake fluid. Anyone know how many bottles of Castrol SRF needed for a complete flush?

I'd be content with Motul but I'm going with the pricey SRF stuff this time knowing how slightly more inconvenient it is to bleed brakes on the M3 since the reservoir is not as accessible as in most other cars (wtf does BMW choose to hide it?) so I like the idea of flushing it once and being good to go for the whole season.

I'll be using Pagid RS19 with stock brake system and lines, although I do plan on trying out PFC01 after the Pagids are toast assuming a set will be available for the stock brakes. Either setup should give my 275x4 NT-01's a nice workout.
Honestly, I don't know. I used 1.5 bottles, though that was based on how much I needed on the E46. It will take a while to get the fluid out of the ABS pump.
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      03-17-2009, 06:34 AM   #14
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i just switched to the Castrol and used about 1.25 liters. who is the genius at BMW who decided to hide the brake fluid res? Must be the same guy who speced the 1970's calipers...
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      03-17-2009, 08:10 AM   #15
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Quote:
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on my e46 M3 the dealer refused to flush brake fluid and noted the car had racing fluid on the invoice.
I would dispute that kind of response. They have no technical grounds to refuse service if the fluid in the system meets and exceeds the stock specifications. You can put whatever fluid in your car as long as it meets or exceeds the BMW specs. Driving your car around with higher quality fluid is not a crime; it doesn't breach any kind of warranty or service contract you have with BMW. Having said that, I know some dealers pull this kind shit and don't want to deal with it, so I flush with gold stuff a few months before I go to the dealer for free service.

As others have said, switching between blue and gold allows you to make sure you've done a complete flush. This obviously means you'll use more than one bottle though.
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      03-17-2009, 09:13 AM   #16
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Actually, there's quite a few "high end" fluids that have been known to potentially create problems with mater cylinders, seals, and even the coatings on pistons. While the might not be able to void your warranty, they can refuse to service the fluid and make a note that the system contains an aftermarket fluid. In the event that something in the brake system has a problem based on the use of a non-recommended fluid, they can then refuse to repair or replace that part.
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      03-17-2009, 09:44 AM   #17
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Quote:
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Actually, there's quite a few "high end" fluids that have been known to potentially create problems with mater cylinders, seals, and even the coatings on pistons.
Interesting. Can you provide some references? Which fluids and why do they cause damage? It would be good to know. Again, this comes down to specs though. They can't refuse service just because the fluid is not OEM. What are the BMW specs for brake fluid, and which fluids do not meet those specs. Same applies to motor oil. You can use any oil that meets the specs. I can't see any specs for brake fluid in the manual.
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      03-17-2009, 09:47 AM   #18
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Performance Friction pads work great for me
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      03-17-2009, 10:12 AM   #19
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Performance Friction pads work great for me
which PFCs are on your M3?
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      03-17-2009, 08:33 PM   #20
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I will likely go with Hawk HP+ up front and Gold ATE fluid.
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      03-17-2009, 09:26 PM   #21
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First, who has the dealer change fluid for them?!? Second, fluids like AP Racing's are silcon based (not compatible with most DOT 4 and no DOT3 fluids that are glycol based), but do not create problems with seals. They just require a complete swithcover from non-silcon based fluids. The benefit is higher resistance to boiling, more consistent brake feel, and no moisture-absorbing. Finally, don't go with Hawk HP+... I can assure you they are worse than the OEM pads. Go with at least "Blacks".
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      03-17-2009, 09:45 PM   #22
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uh... I suggest you use them when needed.
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