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      03-10-2009, 05:58 PM   #23
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Most could careless if it can't kill M3. They know the statistics before they bought the car. People who buy Lexus buy it for a complete different reason.
Exactly.


"I'm gonna buy this Lexus so I can be faster than M3s".


Don't flatter yourself, boney.
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      03-10-2009, 06:13 PM   #24
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Most could careless if it can't kill M3. They know the statistics before they bought the car. People who buy Lexus buy it for a complete different reason.
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Exactly.


"I'm gonna buy this Lexus so I can be faster than M3s".


Don't flatter yourself, boney.

What's the aspiration? A fast Camry? The IS350 is a decent car, Lexus shot for the M3 and missed.

I take no joy in the ISF's slowness.
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      03-10-2009, 06:30 PM   #25
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What's the aspiration? A fast Camry? The IS350 is a decent car, Lexus shot for the M3 and missed.

I take no joy in the ISF's slowness.
A relatively faster and reliable car. IS350 does look better than the ISF. I see people take ISF to track and they do it for the thrill of it not necessary with the intention to "kill" another vehicle. Toyota/Lexus's top priority isn't the same as BMW or Nissan as to build the best performance experience. They are more into building meticulous machine that last and last. When they get a chance to take a shot at BMW for performance they will but by no means that's the primary goal.

I don't think we should build animosity towards other brand because they are inferior in some aspect. If not I suppose Porsche and Ferrari owners have the right to laugh at people taking their proletariat BMW to the track. Or Lexus owner have a right to laugh at every BMW breaking down on the side of the road. Camry is a great vehicle, btw.
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      03-10-2009, 06:45 PM   #26
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C63 would be my pick out of the IS-F or M3 no question about it. The new M3 is a porker (3500-3800lbs) and the IS-F has too much fast/furious look to it. At least the C63 is a bone crusher in the power department (love that mind bending torque).
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      03-10-2009, 06:49 PM   #27
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C63 would be my pick out of the IS-F or M3 no question about it. The new M3 is a porker (3500-3800lbs) and the IS-F has too much fast/furious look to it. At least the C63 is a bone crusher in the power department (love that mind bending torque).
I am with you. I really like the way c63 blackline looks
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      03-10-2009, 06:57 PM   #28
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id have to say ctsv that thing is a beast or supercharge the m3 either or.
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      03-10-2009, 07:45 PM   #29
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Does toyota's... i'm sorry, lexus' warranty cover the IS-F(ail)'s two, fake, pointless, just-for-show, top exhaust pipes?
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      03-10-2009, 08:47 PM   #30
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Does toyota's... i'm sorry, lexus' warranty cover the IS-F(ail)'s two, fake, pointless, just-for-show, top exhaust pipes?
Probably does, the best thing that can happen is for them to start falling off, which would mean Lexus sending one of their famous letters to their customers

"In all probability the tailpipes may suddenly disappear due to a defect with the superglue used to stick them on, if that happens, take your time and book an appointment with your dealer so that we can restore the IS-F to the epitome of kitsch."

With great regret, a company that badly wants to be BMW and Jaguar combined but fails when confronted with real car nuts.

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Being a fan of Honda engines, I requested that they consider building for the F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up with a BMW engine.
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      03-10-2009, 08:47 PM   #31
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A relatively faster and reliable car. IS350 does look better than the ISF. I see people take ISF to track and they do it for the thrill of it not necessary with the intention to "kill" another vehicle. Toyota/Lexus's top priority isn't the same as BMW or Nissan as to build the best performance experience. They are more into building meticulous machine that last and last. When they get a chance to take a shot at BMW for performance they will but by no means that's the primary goal.

I don't think we should build animosity towards other brand because they are inferior in some aspect. If not I suppose Porsche and Ferrari owners have the right to laugh at people taking their proletariat BMW to the track. Or Lexus owner have a right to laugh at every BMW breaking down on the side of the road. Camry is a great vehicle, btw.
Ummm... I see as many older bimmers as much as toyota camrys.. So your logic fails, try again.
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      03-10-2009, 08:49 PM   #32
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I attended the Taste Of Lexus event in the summer and drove the IS-F and IS350 with F sport accessories. I was very impressed with the IS350..for an OEM add on exhaust, the F sport was LOUD.

They said that they know the IS-F is not the fastest car out there, but it's a fun car to drive.

An interesting thing I noticed on the IS-F forum as well is that the majority of owners bought, as oppose to M owners, who lease.
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      03-10-2009, 08:51 PM   #33
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wait..did i read that right?

180k us


ok toyota...put the crack pipe down
actually that's how much its going to cost - $180K...b/c that's what Toyota needs to support is crack-smoking habit.




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Originally Posted by Burt Reynolds View Post
C63 would be my pick out of the IS-F or M3 no question about it. The new M3 is a porker (3500-3800lbs) and the IS-F has too much fast/furious look to it. At least the C63 is a bone crusher in the power department (love that mind bending torque).
well that "porker" of an M3 weighs a good deal less than the C63 you prefer...and it turns in better too. don't get me wrong, i like lots of torque...but i don't want my car to just feel fast - i want it to BE fast...and out of the 3 cars you're comparing, the M3 does that best.




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...between BMW and Toyota, who has had more F1 wins and podiums?
ouch...now that's a low blow . i agree that the assumption that BMW won't have a supercar to compete with the LF-A is a premature one, let alone the assumption that the LF-A will become reality. there is no doubt that BMW has done better than Toyota in the arena of the pinnacle of motorsoprt that is F1. but Toyota is just as decorated as BMW when it comes to racing heritage, history, and pedigree.
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      03-10-2009, 08:56 PM   #34
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ouch...now that's a low blow . i agree that the assumption that BMW won't have a supercar to compete with the LF-A is a premature one, let alone the assumption that the LF-A will become reality. there is no doubt that BMW has done better than Toyota in the arena of the pinnacle of motorsoprt that is F1. but Toyota is just as decorated as BMW when it comes to racing heritage, history, and pedigree.
Minor rathole.... No one really touches the racing heritage of Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren...

But other than the horrible F1 effort and the pushrod V8's in Nascar, where has Toyota participated?? There was a celebrity Celica series in the 1990s.....

BMW DTM and the 1980's F1 efforts stands out....
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      03-10-2009, 08:58 PM   #35
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180,000 USD? Id rather buy a Aston Martin or a slightly used Gallardo.
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      03-10-2009, 09:02 PM   #36
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You dare bring up "Vaporware" and the LF-A in the same post?

Toyota just got a new chief and he is frowning on unprofitable projects. What do you think is going to happen to the LF-A? It is going behind the woodshed and the new CEO is bringing a shovel.

Look at Honda's shooting of the new NSX.

BMW is ahead of the game on being fiscally responsible. They shot the CS and any notions of a Supercar. It gives me heartburn they are wasting the resources of the ///M division on stupid, fast trucks but it will be profitable.

BTW, do you honestly believe that BMW couldn't build a supercar. Let's ask another question....between BMW and Toyota, who has had more F1 wins and podiums?
Vaporware? There is more concrete information on the LF-A than this IS EVO thingee. It will no doubt be a supercar. Where did I say BMW cant build such a machine? I was simply asking if BMW loyalists will be butthurt that there isnt a Super BMW in a line-up to compete. Fiscally Responsible? Lexus is only 20years old and its already at ''luxury car" status. You're arguing with yourself. I never said Toyota was the sportier company.
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      03-10-2009, 09:03 PM   #37
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An interesting thing I noticed on the IS-F forum as well is that the majority of owners bought, as oppose to M owners, who lease.
HMM.....GEEZE. I WONDER WHY THAT IS(sarcasm).
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      03-10-2009, 09:24 PM   #38
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Vaporware? There is more concrete information on the LF-A than this IS EVO thingee. It will no doubt be a supercar. Where did I say BMW cant build such a machine? I was simply asking if BMW loyalists will be butthurt that there isnt a Super BMW in a line-up to compete. Fiscally Responsible? Lexus is only 20years old and its already at ''luxury car" status. You're arguing with yourself. I never said Toyota was the sportier company.
The LFA shows up to 2008 car shows but not 2009..... Vaporware. The car is done.

Toyota was so obsessed chasing GM that it is going to post a nice loss this year with expensive product and excess capacity. Enter the new CEO who will clean house. This is not conjecture, this is fact. Fiscal responsibility has nothing to do with luxury or sporty it is about how a company is run.

I would love to buy an M1 but know it is not going to happen because BMW doesn't want to engage in Halo cars that lose money so I will have to "settle" for some more ///M cars, all of which are faster than anything Toyota can deliver.

Sorry you lose.
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      03-10-2009, 09:36 PM   #39
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The LFA shows up to 2008 car shows but not 2009..... Vaporware. The car is done.

Toyota was so obsessed chasing GM that it is going to post a nice loss this year with expensive product and excess capacity. Enter the new CEO who will clean house. This is not conjecture, this is fact. Fiscal responsibility has nothing to do with luxury or sporty it is about how a company is run.

I would love to buy an M1 but know it is not going to happen because BMW doesn't want to engage in Halo cars that lose money so I will have to "settle" for some more ///M cars, all of which are faster than anything Toyota can deliver.

Sorry you lose.
There you go again."FACT HUH?" Fine, lets talk facts. THE MAN RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LF-A BECOMES THE NEW CEO OF TOYOTA. Did you not read that? He was the vice-president of the company.

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Akio Toyoda, the driving force behind the Lexus LF-A and grandson of the founder of Toyota, will become the Japanese automakers new president and CEO in June. Toyoda, 52, will succeed the current President Katsuaki Watanabe. He will become the youngest president in Toyota’s history.
Toyoda is currently executive vice president at Toyota. According to Automotive News, he said he hopes to someday be seen as the “flag” that rallied a corporate comeback after the current global economic crisis. He is known as a big motor racing fan and has raced in the Nurburgring 24.

The Lexus LF-A program wouldn’t have survived as long as it did under Toyota if it wasn’t for Toyoda. The grandson of the founder also demonstrated the car himself at Fuji Speedway late last year at the Toyota Motor Sports Festival.
Let me see you spin that. The LF-A isnt going anywhere. Just face it. Toyota will offer something that no //M car can beat.
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      03-10-2009, 09:55 PM   #40
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There you go again."FACT HUH?" Fine, lets talk facts. THE MAN RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LF-A BECOMES THE NEW CEO OF TOYOTA. Did you not read that? He was the vice-president of the company.



Let me see you spin that. The LF-A isnt going anywhere. Just face it. Toyota will offer something that no //M car can beat.

Tsk tsk.... a VP has a much differen role than the CEO. And as a VP, the driving force behind the LF-A.....failed. 2 years in final development

Do you really think the LF-A will survive the project purge that is going on?

It would make much more sense doing another Supra....that is something I could dig. LF-A is a Halo car that is not going to do jack for Toyota.
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      03-10-2009, 10:12 PM   #41
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Tsk tsk.... a VP has a much differen role than the CEO. And as a VP, the driving force behind the LF-A.....failed. 2 years in final development

Do you really think the LF-A will survive the project purge that is going on?

It would make much more sense doing another Supra....that is something I could dig. LF-A is a Halo car that is not going to do jack for Toyota.
A Vice President of a company still has influence.They were grooming Toyoda to become CEO. Being the founder's grandson, he had a lot of pull. Things work very differently over there. 52yrs of age for a CEO is almost unheard of. Honor is big role in a lot of these companies. Just take a look at the CEO compensations. GM's Bob Lutz got 14mil last year. Toyota's got $900,000. Go figure.

A Halo car will boost Lexus' sporty image no doubt. Lexus is still a very young company. I mean 1989...come on! I almost remember what I was doing back then.


Keep renouncing. He gets the last say as CEO. He dictates what direction he wants the company to go. It is coming. Its a Halo car. Only a handful will be made anyway. Mercedes had plenty. BMW had its M1. Lexus is going to have its LF-A. End of Story. Get over it. :-)
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      03-10-2009, 10:21 PM   #42
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A Vice President of a company still has influence.They were grooming Toyoda to become CEO. Being the founder's grandson, he had a lot of pull. Things work very differently over there. 52yrs of age for a CEO is almost unheard of. Honor is big role in a lot of these companies. Just take a look at the CEO compensations. GM's Bob Lutz got 14mil last year. Toyota's got $900,000. Go figure.

A Halo car will boost Lexus' sporty image no doubt. Lexus is still a very young company. I mean 1989...come on! I almost remember what I was doing back then.

Keep renouncing. He gets the last say as CEO. He dictates what direction he wants the company to go. It is coming. Its a Halo car. Only a handful will be made anyway. Mercedes had plenty. BMW had its M1. Lexus is going to have its LF-A. End of Story. Get over it. :-)

Where Mr. Toyoda is going to focus is capacity reduction and cost reduction and SKU consolidation. There is no way the LFA is going to make it to production, unless they have completed their development.

The LF-A is the wrong product for this company at the wrong time. In the boom years 2004-2007, it could have done well. There are 7 Reventions for sale..... Toyota is not going to bring this car out because it is inconsistent with Mr. Toyoda's direction as CEO.

BTW, the M1 was raced in a series, it was not a Halo car......

Besides, this thread was about the IS-Fail not the LFail-A.
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      03-10-2009, 10:28 PM   #43
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Where Mr. Toyoda is going to focus is capacity reduction and cost reduction and SKU consolidation. There is no way the LFA is going to make it to production, unless they have completed their development.

The LF-A is the wrong product for this company at the wrong time. In the boom years 2004-2007, it could have done well. There are 7 Reventions for sale..... Toyota is not going to bring this car out because it is inconsistent with Mr. Toyoda's direction as CEO.

BTW, the M1 was raced in a series, it was not a Halo car......

Besides, this thread was about the IS-Fail not the LFail-A.
I believe production is almost done if it isnt done already. Thats why they havent cancelled it. Honda has nixed their NSX. Toyota wont miss this opportunity to upstage again. They will have no problem moving 500. Want to know why? Because they dont make sports cars/super cars often. They arent like Mercedes that have AMG on everything. Or BMW that will now have //M SUV monstrosities. The LF-A is going to have a ridic price tag and many will see it as worth it. Its not coming this year anyway so who cares?

If Japanese fanboys want an //M3 beating coupe, they can look no further than the GT-R. Lets not even talk about the slight update the car get in a few months.(suspension, tires, hp bump) Like I said, their is always something.



Quote:
This despite the current economic situation, especially pronounced in the financial services and automobile manufacturing sectors. The company is holding firm on its commitment to Formula One as well, even though "to keep it up at the current level [of spending] is extremely difficult", according to CEO Katsuaki Watanabe. Rival Honda recently pulled the plug on its NSX as well as its F1 programme.
What is expected to end up happening is that the 500hp Lexus will be built to a limited number of only 500 examples. Whether that includes the cabriolet or not remains to be seen.
Earlier this year the LF-A teased crowds at the Nurburgring 24 hours and more recently at Toyota's Motorsport Festival at the Fuji Speedway. A small number of LF-A prototypes are rumoured to be on a short list to compete at various racing championships once again in 2009.
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      03-10-2009, 11:09 PM   #44
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Minor rathole.... No one really touches the racing heritage of Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren...

But other than the horrible F1 effort and the pushrod V8's in Nascar, where has Toyota participated?? There was a celebrity Celica series in the 1990s.....

BMW DTM and the 1980's F1 efforts stands out....
TTE in WRC:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Team_Europe

http://homepage.virgin.net/shalco.com/tte_ban.htm

TTE at Le Mans:

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/gtone.html

And for the record, Toyota still has a Scion celebrity race.

http://www.startribune.com/entertain.../41034852.html

As for F1... BMW bought Sauber out... they didn't start their F1 team from the ground up, unlike Toyota F1 (which came from TTE). They were great in 2005 (they could have beaten Ferrari if not for the USGP debacle); dropped the ball for a couple of years, and came up w/ decent results in 2008.

And who seriously buys an M3 these days knowing about BMW's DTM and BRABHAM (not a wholly-engineered BMW car) F1 car?
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