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      03-08-2009, 09:17 PM   #1
jm1234
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Brake/Track/Vibration/Help

I have a couple questions about these topics for anyone interested in helping.

If your brakes vibrate after using stock pads at the track then from what I understand it could be brake pad buildup on the rotor and warped rotors are rare. Can you see this brake pad buildup as I can't visually see anything on my rotors. Some have stated that you can continue to drive the car and the vibration (and presumably the buildup) will go away. Is there someway to clean the rotors as driving with vibrating brakes doesn't seem very safe and those vibrations can't be very good for the car integrity as a whole (squeaks and rattles and all)? I've called in the past about turning slotted or drilled rotors and the 3-4 shops I talked to all stated it would ruin their machine (which seems sensible) so that doesn't seem like an option I can follow up on here. Is there a method other than turning the rotors or driving to remove this brake pad buildup?

I've just a couple track events (five days total, four in this car, B group in BMW CCA), so I'm wondering if I want to go the route of getting Pagid or Hawk pads or is that overkill (or likely to get me killed, I don't want to touch the brakes and have the ABS engage every time). I want to do what is right for the car but I don't want to put modifications on the car that change the performance. I like the car as it is out of the box and I specifically bought it so I could have a daily driver that was built for aggressive driving. Is there a pad that will hold up under aggressive driving but that keeps the same driving characteristics as stock? How long does it take pads to cool down before you can change them back? Is it OK to drive a calm/legal hour home on them or do you have to wait for the pads to cool and then change them before setting out less aggressively? (or do you just drive home like you stole it?)

Does anyone know the torque values for whatever screws nuts and bolts you need to undue in order to swap front pads?

Finally, thanks for any help with this topic.
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      03-08-2009, 10:08 PM   #2
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I don't know if the vibration can lead to premature part wear/failure or not. I've ignored it and it eventually went away, but it did take several weeks. In some cases, you can actually see pad deposits, but not always. I was told you can use an orbital sander to get the pad material off, but I have no idea if that would do the job, and it would be difficlt to get at the inside faces of the rotors with a sander. Another option is to put more agressive pads in and bed them to see if they remove the softer stock pad material (this did work for me). Running medium-compound track pads, if there is actually such a thing, will not lock your wheels and call in ABS. I know since I ran medium compound Carbotech pads, and that was not an issue at all, and I was really stepping on it. That is my recommendation: to get at least "medium" compound track pads. Actually, the manual recommends the use of different pads at the track as well. The thing is, to the best of my knowledge, they all make noise. You might want to check out the softer compound Pagids (I have no personal experience with them). I just got a set of RS-19s and I know they will make a lot of noise so I've resigned myself to that outcome. Good luck.
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      03-08-2009, 10:52 PM   #3
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How did you feel about the Carbotech pads? The RS-19s warn against increased rotor wear but the Carbotech pads all claim "more rotor friendly". Could be marketing BS or maybe a warning from Padgid, hard to say. I was wondering why you are switching (cost?) and/or if you know what temperatures your pads were actually getting to (do you have a thermometer)? I know things will vary but right now I have no idea how hot the pads get so I don't even know what ballpark I'm in. Obviously I don't want something that will melt onto my rotors but I also don't want a pad so hard that they chew up my rotors. Any numbers would be better than my WAG.

What a pain. I'd just go back to video games but now I'm spoiled. Anyhow, I do appreciate the feedback.
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      03-09-2009, 09:43 AM   #4
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Things got pretty hot, and the paint on my front calipers cracked and fell off, etc, but I had no objective way of measuring anything. I will use heat sensitive paint next time to get an idea. I was not happy with the Carbotechs mainly because they wore out too fast--totally gone after 3 track days--and they smeared the adhesive between the pad material and the back plate to the extent that the wear sensor would no longer fit, had to be cable tied to the suspension, and the clip fell off in the process, and I had to buy an entire new sensor just because of that. Also, the pad backplate literally warped as I was pushing the piston back with a c-clamp, and I couldn't have applied that much torque with the tiny c-clamp lever arm. Just not impressed overall.

I bet some compounds are easier on your rotors than others, and that there is a scientific explanation, but I doubt that these manufacturers have actually done controlled experiements with each pad material to prove that (I haven't seen any numbers/proof), and to that effect, it is probably marketing stuff, but I don't really know. I just don't pay attention to that kind of stuff.

Anyway, I am switching because I want better quality and durability.

And, I've been back to video games since October since there is still snow out there today!
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      03-16-2009, 01:31 AM   #5
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usually the track pads have better feel/modulation when hot.

vibration could be deposits or warped rotors.
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      03-17-2009, 10:41 AM   #6
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I've use a block and med/fine sandpaper to get rid of the rotor deposits.
The stock pads CANNOT HANDLE a full track day at a more than beginner/intermediate level.

There is NOTHING like the Pgaids. Just phenonomenal. Love them.
No small wonder that like 80% of the ALMS/Daytona race teams use them and aren't even sponsored by Pagid.

Never a problem with rotor deposits running these beauties for years on my cars for track days. They aren't quiet though!

I go mine from him at www.Rennstore.com
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      03-17-2009, 11:16 AM   #7
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Does anyone have experience swapping out pads before and after track events? I do not want to drive around with track pads on my car. I've been changing brake pads on my cars for decades so I have a good idea what's involved I just don't know if you have to bed the track pads before every event or only when new and do you have to bed the stock pads when putting them back on? Finally, where do you perform the bed in procedure for the Pagid pads? Do you perform it on the track, at the venue or just whenever and wherever you are? I'm not familiar with bed in procedures so unsuited for public roads
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      03-17-2009, 11:34 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 M3 View Post
I've use a block and med/fine sandpaper to get rid of the rotor deposits.
The stock pads CANNOT HANDLE a full track day at a more than beginner/intermediate level.

There is NOTHING like the Pgaids. Just phenonomenal. Love them.
No small wonder that like 80% of the ALMS/Daytona race teams use them and aren't even sponsored by Pagid.

Never a problem with rotor deposits running these beauties for years on my cars for track days. They aren't quiet though!

I go mine from him at www.Rennstore.com
Which Pagids did you use? Your recommended fluid? I guess SS lines installed too right?
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      03-18-2009, 01:12 PM   #9
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Nah, the lines are a waste of money. They really are.

Use the Pagid Yellows from Craig www.Rennstore.com
Man, they ar phenomenal track pads!!!!!!
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      03-18-2009, 01:13 PM   #10
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I bed my pads in the best I can on the street and do an easy finish to them first time out on track. SO easy.
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      03-18-2009, 01:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Nah, the lines are a waste of money. They really are.

Use the Pagid Yellows from Craig www.Rennstore.com
Man, they ar phenomenal track pads!!!!!!
Are steel lines really a waste of money? everyone tends to suggest them as one of the first things to upgrade.
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      03-18-2009, 02:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dascamel View Post
Are steel lines really a waste of money? everyone tends to suggest them as one of the first things to upgrade.
I suspect that might be true. Turner told me in person last year at the track that there is no need to upgrade them.
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      03-18-2009, 03:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 M3 View Post
The stock pads CANNOT HANDLE a full track day at a more than beginner/intermediate level.
I tend to disagree- I beleive beg/intermediate track junkies are harder on brakes becuase of technique and overuse of the brakes.

I once took some vibrating rotors in to be turned to remove what I was sure was deposits. once on the lathe it was obvious
they were slightly warped. we turned tham and they worked fne. (these fore not two peice floaters)
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