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      03-02-2009, 11:47 PM   #23
Dascamel
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Heh, due to DSC in the 335i, my rear brakes were long gone before the front brakes. On the track, the extra heat can definately add up.
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      03-03-2009, 01:35 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
With the DSC or MDM activated by the car sliding (understeer or Oversteer)the individual wheel brakes can be applied to control the slide.When the electronic nannies are turned off the brakes are only used for slowing the car,not trying to control the yaw angle which means that the brakes have more cooling time between applications and that means they will run cooler.
good point
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      03-05-2009, 05:27 PM   #25
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how many bottles of brake fluid do i need to buy?
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      03-05-2009, 09:12 PM   #26
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Two should do it, get a third just in case.
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      03-06-2009, 12:43 AM   #27
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how many bottles of brake fluid do i need to buy?
A complete change requires 1 liter. After that it depends on how big the bottles are...
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      03-06-2009, 08:06 AM   #28
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Fixed the Brakes?

My first DE track days with the M3 are next weekend at VIR, so I have tried to help the brakes with the following changes:

Castrol SRF Fluid
Pagid Yellow F & R
StopTech Lines

I expect that the heat issue will not be a problem, even carrying (and eliminating) good speed down the front and back straights. I certainly hope this tackles the problem. I know these will never be Porsche Brakes, but hopefully they can stand up to the heavy use.

BTW, the Motul 600 is a great fluid, but the Castol is better. Since heat is the key issue, I think a higher temp fluid seems reasonable.
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      03-06-2009, 08:30 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8INTO3=M View Post
My first DE track days with the M3 are next weekend at VIR, so I have tried to help the brakes with the following changes:

Castrol SRF Fluid
Pagid Yellow F & R
StopTech Lines

I expect that the heat issue will not be a problem, even carrying (and eliminating) good speed down the front and back straights. I certainly hope this tackles the problem. I know these will never be Porsche Brakes, but hopefully they can stand up to the heavy use.

BTW, the Motul 600 is a great fluid, but the Castol is better. Since heat is the key issue, I think a higher temp fluid seems reasonable.
What tires are you running? R-comps or regular?

That's the same brake setup I used last year with regular tires and I never had a problem with fade.
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      03-08-2009, 12:07 AM   #30
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what is so special about Castrol SRF ? why does it cost so much ?
Because it's the best. It has the highest "wet" boiling point of any fluid available, which allows us to use much less per season.
One full flush, and then bleeds is all you need...with Motul or the others, which have lower "wet" boiling points, you need to flush the fluid between events to make sure you have the "dry" boiling point.

SRF could be spilled into a puddle of dirty rainwater, sopped up with a sponge and still outperform most fluids.

It actually is cheaper to use SRF for the season...just bleeds needed, not flushes.

Be good,
TomK
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      03-08-2009, 01:14 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ace996 View Post
One full flush, and then bleeds is all you need...with Motul or the others, which have lower "wet" boiling points, you need to flush the fluid between events to make sure you have the "dry" boiling point.

It actually is cheaper to use SRF for the season...just bleeds needed, not flushes.
I am a newbie on this and want to understand this. Without taking anyones time in explaining basics, is threre a reliable source where I can read more on this subject?

I am particularly interested to read about (i) what is the wet and dry boiling point of brake fluids, (ii) why / (iii) how often are bleeds / flushes needed, (iv) can a track brake setup (lines, fluid & pads) have any drawbacks in city driving (i.e. squeeks, harder brake pedal feeling?), (v) what is the optimal setup for the E92 setup in terms of fluid / lines / pads?
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      03-08-2009, 11:30 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8000 View Post
I am a newbie on this and want to understand this. Without taking anyones time in explaining basics, is threre a reliable source where I can read more on this subject?

I am particularly interested to read about (i) what is the wet and dry boiling point of brake fluids, (ii) why / (iii) how often are bleeds / flushes needed, (iv) can a track brake setup (lines, fluid & pads) have any drawbacks in city driving (i.e. squeeks, harder brake pedal feeling?), (v) what is the optimal setup for the E92 setup in terms of fluid / lines / pads?
1- go here... http://worth-it.blogspot.com/2006/01...son-chart.html

2- Moisture is absorbed by the fluid in time...this lowers the boiling point of the fluid. The moisture adds to the air-bubbles being created when the fluid boils and "fade" or "loss" of braking is the result...that is not fun.

3- Prior to every track day and/or between every session if you are boiling fluid, then you'll need to bleed to evacuate air-bubbles in the system.

4- depends on what you can handle. I drove with SRF fluid and Pagid Yellows on the front throughout the winter...they do squeak, but I don't care.

5- Optimal? That's a "funding"-dependant answer, but I've run the Castrol SRF with Pagid Yellows with stock lines last track-day and it was fine. I'd like to upgrade the lines...not sure if the car NEEDS them...and add some ducting to help with keeping temps down.

Be good,
TomK
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      03-08-2009, 03:42 PM   #33
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Good info Ace. Thanks. I knew the dry boiling temps were similar, but didn't know the wet boiling temps were so different, so I thought there was something else that was special about the SRF. Having said this, wet boiling temp for Motul is 420F and seems to be 520F for SRF. I can see how this makes sense for an advance driver. Do you really see a beginner or an intermediate driver working the brakes hard enough to reach those fluid temps--especially if they are not running track rubber?
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      03-08-2009, 04:51 PM   #34
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For the price on one srf you can change the fluid 2-3 times with the motul. Yes, its better with moisture, but if your bleeding your brakes fairly often does the wet temp become that much of an issue?
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      03-08-2009, 10:20 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dascamel View Post
For the price on one srf you can change the fluid 2-3 times with the motul. Yes, its better with moisture, but if your bleeding your brakes fairly often does the wet temp become that much of an issue?
I agree with this philosophy. The type of fluid is not nearly as important as changing the fluid regularly.
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      03-09-2009, 06:40 AM   #36
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Quote:
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What tires are you running? R-comps or regular?

That's the same brake setup I used last year with regular tires and I never had a problem with fade.

For this first DE of the season and I am going to try the stock rubber. I need to find the right wheel & tire setup (R comp) for the rest of the season soon. I like the MPSC, but may try the R888 this time. I hope the brake setup does not overwhelm the street rubber (PS2s).

Glad to hear you were pleased with your brakes last year though. Heard too many horror stories about these puppies overheating so easily.

I still cant believe the smart kids at bmw thought this stock setup was a good idea -- no matter how badly they needed to pinch pennies.
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      03-09-2009, 09:48 AM   #37
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If you push your car, your PS2s will be done for. My fronts were showing signs of serious wear after 2 track days and were pretty much destroyed after 3 track days under heavy braking.
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      03-11-2009, 10:58 AM   #38
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I have tracked my M3 now 4 separate times (Sebring, PBIR and Homestead), the first three I was running on stock pads and BF and running on MDM. There is no question that the breaks (mainly front) get scorching hot...especially with MDM on. I finally ended up warping my front rotors and with a bit of asking nicely had the dealer swap them out. I figured that using Castrol SRF, and getting new YPagids should do the trick...Pagids didnt come in on time last week, but did swap out fluid for Castrol SRF and turned of all stability control and hit the track for two intense days of driving. I noticed that the heat of the breaks was MUCH less, significantly less! I think SYLE of driving has a lot to do with it...if you have enough confidence on the Track, shut that MDM off its whats killing the breaks! Pagids came in now, im in Sebring ed of the month and I know breaks will not be an issue anymore.
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      03-11-2009, 08:06 PM   #39
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Actually my brakes are over, I already did 3 track days, first in streets of willow, second Buttonwillow, until then no problems with braking, but then I went to BIG WILLOW the fastest track in the West and I killed them, now every time I brake my rotors vibrate like dildos hehehe, hopefully the dealer will change them... Only 8000 miles on the car..
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      03-11-2009, 08:08 PM   #40
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Stock pads, liquid stock and DSC totally off!! Yeah drifting action hehe
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      03-13-2009, 06:29 PM   #41
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Quote:
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Stock pads, liquid stock and DSC totally off!! Yeah drifting action hehe
Your rotors are most likely fine, just uneven pad transfer:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238641
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      03-14-2009, 10:25 PM   #42
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stop tech big brake kit 6 piston fits 08 m3 coupe

Just installed the above kit on my 08 m3 - the 6 piston - fits by 2mm.

I went through the stock front brakes in 1&1/2 hours at Pacific raceway in WA - I'm sure the new set up will take care of the problem - may have to duct it as well.

If interested in this install call Cantrell Motorsports in Kirkland WA - they did
a perfect fit

Michael
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      03-14-2009, 10:27 PM   #43
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stop tech big brake kit 6 piston fits 08 m3 coupe

Just installed the above kit on my 08 m3 - the 6 piston - fits by 2mm.

I went through the stock front brakes in 1&1/2 hours at Pacific raceway in WA - I'm sure the new set up will take care of the problem - may have to duct it as well.

If interested in this install call Cantrell Motorsports in Kirkland WA - they did
a perfect fit

using motorsport 18" wheels for the track with 888's

Michael
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      03-16-2009, 07:39 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
I agree with this philosophy. The type of fluid is not nearly as important as changing the fluid regularly.
You don't need to do this with SRF but once a year. Rarely do you get it warm enough to create vapor in the fluid, which gives it effectively a much longer life.

The moment you open the bottle of Motul it's absorbing moisture and on it's way to the 400 degree WET point. You'll need to flush once every couple events and bleed in between event to keep a nice firm pedal. Really not much effective difference between Motul and ATE super, you'll be bleeding and flushing at about the same rate.

SRF is a totally different animal. For me it saves time and arguably $.
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